Tado smart thermostat

Lob0

Novice Member
Just to add, I see the Honeywell stats have their own timers, so the 9100c other timer is in fact probably for Hot Water?. In this case leave it to do that job, unless you really want remote control of HW timing.
Thank you, Deezell and AVgulag. I bought whole kit - valves, Smart Thermostats and Extension Kit with Wifi. waiting it to arrive and start installation. I am going for Option 2
@Deezell, I suspect 9100C is for hot water because it is right next to my boiler. As I understand, I need to replace it with Extension Kit and control hot water flow with it. Is this correct?
By the way, I am not great with electricity (forgot since I was at school), but typically can follow through good instructions. Are the instructions clear enough for an average user to identify the correct setup, remove Honeywells and install Tados?
Thanks a lot
 

Deezell

Active Member
You will only need two wire connection to the Tado stats as they are battery operated also, so it's a straight swap. If you really want tado control of HW, install the ext kit in place of the 9100c. The ext kit is also a wireless relay for a single tado stat, but you won't require this feature, just the HW live out terminal. You will have to set the mode switch jumper of the ext kit to position 2, with 'HW On' live out on pin 3. The ext kit must be configured as a wireless receiver for the primary stat, even though you do not need it's CH live out connection. You must ensure that the relay in the stat itself continues to switch for heating events, as after connection to a wireless receiver, it may be disabled by default to save battery power, on the assumption that the CH connection for this stat in the ext kit is being used. If the stats own relay is muted, Tado support will restore it. Get your system up and running with the two wired stats and HW ext kit first. After this, you must physically install the smart TRV heads on the radiator valves, (I'm assuming your rads have existing mechanical TRV heads, and thus TRV valve bodies). Next, using the app, assign each TRV to the stat zone they are contained in, so these TRVs can call the correct wall stat and zone valve to request boiler firing. Again, Tado support can ensure a TRV in a zone is calling the stat for that zone. Best of luck.
 

STU1965

Novice Member
All

Sorry to resurrect old thread, I have the same setup as @Lob0 and followed the instructions as provided by TADO, heating works provided a smart thermostat is calling for heat, the individual TRVs , although I can set to whatever temp will not fire up the boiler - I have read elsewhere this is a config change TADO can make, request is in.

My issue is no hot water despite the Ext Kit being installed as per TADO instructions, also replacing a Honeywell 9100c. @Deezell, you said use terminal 3 on the Ext Kit wheras TADO say use Terminal 4, could that be my issue?

@Lob0 - is yours all up and running?
 

Deezell

Active Member
All

Sorry to resurrect old thread, I have the same setup as @Lob0 and followed the instructions as provided by TADO, heating works provided a smart thermostat is calling for heat, the individual TRVs , although I can set to whatever temp will not fire up the boiler - I have read elsewhere this is a config change TADO can make, request is in.

My issue is no hot water despite the Ext Kit being installed as per TADO instructions, also replacing a Honeywell 9100c. @Deezell, you said use terminal 3 on the Ext Kit wheras TADO say use Terminal 4, could that be my issue?

@Lob0 - is yours all up and running?
HW On is terminal 3 of the ext kit, as per this diagram, but the ext kit mode switch jumper must be in position 2, otherwise it's just a volt free 3 terminal CH switch.
screenshot_20180103-173119-png.960535
 

PsyVision

Distinguished Member
I am close to ripping Tado out altogether. I keep finding it heating unnecessarily...

Looking at the screenshot attached, I presume it started heating the Porch to 19 degrees and then lost its connection, rather than stopping calling for heat and firing the boiler at the allotted time it just carried on and on. To stop it I had to take the TRV off and move it closer to the bridge before turning it to the Off position.

If Tado cannot provide a system with a reliable mesh then I simply have no choice to put up or change, correct?
 

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STU1965

Novice Member
TADO isn't a mesh, it relies upon connection to the internet bridge, had similar until i positioned the bridge in a better location. Since then faultless and now setup so each room calls for heat independently I rarely touch it.

Persevere, once setup correctly it does work very well
 

PsyVision

Distinguished Member
TADO isn't a mesh, it relies upon connection to the internet bridge, had similar until i positioned the bridge in a better location. Since then faultless and now setup so each room calls for heat independently I rarely touch it.

Persevere, once setup correctly it does work very well

There are only so many positions I can put it though given that it requires a network connection. I've got it pointing upwards also on Tado's recommendation. If I move it closer to the two rooms I've had issues with then it'll be further away from several other rooms that are currently working.

I'm currently toying going for EvoHome or a custom solution using the Zigbee mesh I do have.
 

Deezell

Active Member
Tado support can analyse signal strength in the connection, and tweak it for a given TRV, at the expense of a little more battery consumption. Check that the valve pin is free moving. Its perfectly possible that an excess current demand on the TRV batteries due to a sticky or uncalibrated valve may be enough to cause a sudden voltage drop which upsets the 6LoWPAN network connection from TRV to bridge. Lube the pin, reset and rejoin the TRV head, let it mechanically calibrate.
The mesh routing protocol is not used in this implementation of 6LoWPAN by Tado, I recall reading it up some years ago. Probably a bit of an ask on the TRV processors.
EDIT; they operate on the same 2.4G frequency as Zigbee, there's always the possibility of a marginal increase in S/N ratio at a given moment when a nearby Zigbee device wakes up, causing a temporary loss of the TRV connection.
 
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PsyVision

Distinguished Member
Tado support can analyse signal strength in the connection, and tweak it for a given TRV, at the expense of a little more battery consumption. Check that the valve pin is free moving. Its perfectly possible that an excess current demand on the TRV batteries due to a sticky or uncalibrated valve may be enough to cause a sudden voltage drop which upsets the 6LoWPAN network connection from TRV to bridge. Lube the pin, reset and rejoin the TRV head, let it mechanically calibrate.
The mesh routing protocol is not used in this implementation of 6LoWPAN by Tado, I recall reading it up some years ago. Probably a bit of an ask on the TRV processors.
EDIT; they operate on the same 2.4G frequency as Zigbee, there's always the possibility of a marginal increase in S/N ratio at a given moment when a nearby Zigbee device wakes up, causing a temporary loss of the TRV connection.

Thanks - I'll have a look at the pin to see if it is as free moving as they get.

I find it poor that the system relies on the TRV saying I'm done with heat to turn off the boiler, granted I accept that the TRV can call for heat at it's request. But the scheduling (for which there is no reason that it could be "central") states that at a certain time the TRV should be off (as is reflected in the app by the status being off), so surely it should know that it should also turn the boiler off?

It doesn't seem very joined up when half of the system is saying everything is off or should be off but the boiler is happily firing away...
 

Deezell

Active Member
But you can centralise the scheduling. Simply add your TRVs into one room or group, and they will slave to the master stat in that group. A TRV can also be configured as a passive TRV, just like a mechanical one, in that the main stat determines the firing of the boiler and heated water flow, TRVs will just cap room temperature, but not call the boiler.
 

PsyVision

Distinguished Member
But you can centralise the scheduling. Simply add your TRVs into one room or group, and they will slave to the master stat in that group. A TRV can also be configured as a passive TRV, just like a mechanical one, in that the main stat determines the firing of the boiler and heated water flow, TRVs will just cap room temperature, but not call the boiler.

That's not quite what I mean. I meant that, even if there is no connectivity between the TRV and the bridge, surely the Tado system, whether that be the bridge, extension kit or the cloud should know that my set schedule says that at a particular time there should be no more heat required from that TRV and to turn off the boiler (presuming that no other TRV is requiring heat)?

Granted there is the argument that whilst the TRV was disconnected, I could have manually prolonged the heat period and thus it should continue "as-is", however, should that not be an option chosen by me?
 

Deezell

Active Member
I'm fairly certain that all activity for a TRV takes place in the system cloud, so if it doesn't receive temperature or status data from a TRV, it ticks over at the last setting. The usually reports loss of connection if, say, you just disconnect it, so it seems odd that it thinks it has a connection. The fact that its firing in contradiction to the schedule is odd. It's like it has a different version of the schedule for Porch, to the one you've saved. I'd open a call to support. What does your graph for this zone look like on that day? Are there time chunks missing? Run your finger on the graph line for the full schedule/actual temperature record, and the boiler firing record.
 

PsyVision

Distinguished Member
I'm fairly certain that all activity for a TRV takes place in the system cloud, so if it doesn't receive temperature or status data from a TRV, it ticks over at the last setting. The usually reports loss of connection if, say, you just disconnect it, so it seems odd that it thinks it has a connection. The fact that its firing in contradiction to the schedule is odd. It's like it has a different version of the schedule for Porch, to the one you've saved. I'd open a call to support. What does your graph for this zone look like on that day? Are there time chunks missing? Run your finger on the graph line for the full schedule/actual temperature record, and the boiler firing record.

Screenshot_20210115-140210_tado.jpg


It lost signal at 17:10 until 20:50 so won't have seen the change in TRV schedule at 20:30. However, it did manage to show it as OFF in the home screen and also has it as OFF but with 2 bars of heat in the above screenshot...
 

Deezell

Active Member
Two bars is the modulation level, boiler may not actually be firing, rather its watching to see does temperature continue to fall, and will fire in a manner that will prevent it undershooting its target. It's not certain though if the boiler status might be referring to some other zone or TRV, or just an indication that Frost Protection is active. The dropouts are real though, so some action to improve connectivity needed. Others have used TP powerline ethernet extenders to experiment with relocation of the bridge. Simple enough exercise, every power plug is a possible new location to test, no configuration required, just plug and try
 

daftpunk1

Active Member
Ive got tado throughout my house, great job and always works well. Downstairs stat in living room, upstairs stat in master bedroom, hot water zone and detached garage zone has wireless stat.

My only gripe is when i have my woodburner on in my living room, rest of downstairs is cold.

If i move my tado stat into the kitchen as its close to my tado programmer so running new wires isnt an issue and fitting thermostatic valves to my two living room radiators, is this going to solve my issue in allowing me to have woodburner on in living room and radiators on for the rest of downstairs and keeping living room radiators off in process

What benefit is there to having tado smart radiator stats in place of standard ones?
 

Deezell

Active Member
Trvs will cap the rads from heating when stove warms the room to their set temperature. Tado TRVs will also call the boiler when the stove is unlit and the room is below TRV schedule temperature. Another plus, you can set a lower temperature on the TRVs for the living room when its not in use, e.g. breakfast time, allowing the kitchen located stat to control temperature for the rest of the zone.
 

graeme2b

Standard Member
Hi guys, first post to this thread. However I‘ve had a real issue today and not sure where to go.

I had a TADO Version 1 installed (was here when I moved in) I wanted to upgrade to include hot water etc.
So I purchased a new V3 TADO, wireless receiver and Wireless temp sensor. The wireless reciever pretty much does the whole job and I have punched the TRV’s also... I had the Drayton LP522 as the programmer. I have a boiler and an unvented cylinder for hot water. I have 2 Valves so wired the wireless receiver in the way it wanted me to in an S-Plan set up.

However when I have gone to isolate the original TADO wired thermostat, the boiler just fires up all the time. I have followed the instructions as confirmed by the TADO helpdesk. The Original Tado thermostat had 3 wires (the instructions say to connect the Live (Brown) and the switched live (black) as seen in the picture below and isolate the neutral by itself.

The other pictures are of the old UK standard timer coinfig and the new TADO wireless receiver wiring.
If i isolate the wires individually then the boiler doesn’t turn on at all.

TADO have said They cannot offer any more support as it must be the wiring that they cannot see.
they suggest that although I had to have the original Drayton programmer set to ‘on’ for heating and let the TADO do the work, the person who originally installed it has bypassed the timer in some way.

any suggestions would really help...

Kind regards

Graeme
 

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Deezell

Active Member
That base if for the Tado Mini stat, the first stat they made. Its impossible to find information on it, but I'm certain it was mains powered, and required a permanent live. This is why your boiler fires constantly, the live entering the old Tado is not the timed live leaving the old Drayton timer. It may have been once when the stat (if any) which preceded the Tado was a mechanical one, which switched that timed live to the ch valve. As the Tado mini contained the timer, the timing from the drayton became redundant. I'll bet one of the three brown wires going to the live on the old timer backplate is the permanent live going to the old Tado. The other wire going from the Drayton CH connection might be going nowhere. Did you have to set times on the drayton or on the Tado for CH control? Could you set HW on its own with the Drayton? I assume the boiler is fired by the zone valve relays as is correct for S plan, and the timed outputs of the Drayton would normally actuate these valves and relays, with a wall stat and possibly a cylinder stat in between. The Tado mini dispensed with the Drayton timed live, and provided its own to the CH valve, with a permanent live to the Tado mini.
Disconnect all the brown permanent lives, now on the new extension kit, see if the ch stops if one if them is left out. This will be your new CH SL, formerly a permanent live to the old Tado mini wall stat, and should be connected to CH No terminal. Hope this makes sense to you.
 

daftpunk1

Active Member
Trvs will cap the rads from heating when stove warms the room to their set temperature. Tado TRVs will also call the boiler when the stove is unlit and the room is below TRV schedule temperature. Another plus, you can set a lower temperature on the TRVs for the living room when its not in use, e.g. breakfast time, allowing the kitchen located stat to control temperature for the rest of the zone.

But its not going to be a separate zone so to speak, the living room tado smart trvs cant operate the motorised valve i presume
 

graeme2b

Standard Member
That base if for the Tado Mini stat, the first stat they made. Its impossible to find information on it, but I'm certain it was mains powered, and required a permanent live. This is why your boiler fires constantly, the live entering the old Tado is not the timed live leaving the old Drayton timer. It may have been once when the stat (if any) which preceded the Tado was a mechanical one, which switched that timed live to the ch valve. As the Tado mini contained the timer, the timing from the drayton became redundant. I'll bet one of the three brown wires going to the live on the old timer backplate is the permanent live going to the old Tado. The other wire going from the Drayton CH connection might be going nowhere. Did you have to set times on the drayton or on the Tado for CH control? Could you set HW on its own with the Drayton? I assume the boiler is fired by the zone valve relays as is correct for S plan, and the timed outputs of the Drayton would normally actuate these valves and relays, with a wall stat and possibly a cylinder stat in between. The Tado mini dispensed with the Drayton timed live, and provided its own to the CH valve, with a permanent live to the Tado mini.
Disconnect all the brown permanent lives, now on the new extension kit, see if the ch stops if one if them is left out. This will be your new CH SL, formerly a permanent live to the old Tado mini wall stat, and should be connected to CH No terminal. Hope this makes sense to you.

Hey Deezer,
it’s exactly that I left the Drayton on as permanent for CH and it only dealt with the HW at a specific time. I will try that. Your k no it wrong about not being able to find anything. It’s like it never existed. TADO took it off my account yesterday, but I’ve asked them to put it back so I could use last night. They reluctantly agreed.

thanks for you advice. I will give it a go and let you know.
Graeme
 

Deezell

Active Member
But its not going to be a separate zone so to speak, the living room tado smart trvs cant operate the motorised valve i presume
They do, as they call the boiler via the stat of the zone they're in, which opens its zone valve and calls the boiler. The zone effectively has two triggers now. The hall stat and the living room TRV stats, either will call valve and boiler, but TRVs will only be open when they make a call, closed if the living room exceeds TRV schedule temperature, either due to stove or TRVs schedule turned down when not needed.
 
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graeme2b

Standard Member
Hey Deezer,
it’s exactly that I left the Drayton on as permanent for CH and it only dealt with the HW at a specific time. I will try that. Your k no it wrong about not being able to find anything. It’s like it never existed. TADO took it off my account yesterday, but I’ve asked them to put it back so I could use last night. They reluctantly agreed.

thanks for you advice. I will give it a go and let you know.
Graeme

So I’ve had a quick play around. I’ve identified 1 brown live is for the boiler I can see where the wire goes I’m guessing that should be attached to the live supply. The other 2 both trigger CH no matter what position they are in. 🤷‍♂️ Even when Tado is not asking for heat. Confused now.

should I try isolating individual wires where the tado mini was?

Graeme
 

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