SVS vs BK

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by oconnpad, Jan 21, 2005.

  1. oconnpad

    oconnpad
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    Which is better?

    SVS 25-31PCi Vs. BK XLS200

    They roughly cost the same for me to get, SVS a bit dearer but not much.

    Second question.

    Are either of these subs enough for my lounge which is 4m (13ft) X 5.5m (18ft), i only use 4m X 3.5m for home cinema the other is dining room.
     
  2. Kazman

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    Ooooooh, this is a toughie.

    They are too completely different subwoofers. The BK is a very small compact sealed box, where as the SVS is a huge ported cylinder.

    I would say they would be an equal in a small-mid sized room, but the larger driver and cabinet of the SVS would be better for a large room.

    I can certainly see the BK winning the tight and speed battle, but for depth and outright impact, the SVS would win.

    It depends on the type of sound you are after. Either way, both subs are quality units.

    EDIT: The PC Plus and PC Ultra drivers would tell a different story though :D :devil:
     
  3. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I agree with Kaz, although havn't heard the SVS myself.

    I'm sure they'd both make you happy and are exceptional value. The question really is:
    Can you put up with a huge SVS cylinder or do you want something a bit more discreet? :)
     
  4. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I don't believe that the two subwoofers are in the same league in terms of sonic ability and whilst they may cost the same they are aimed at different markets. The SVS is aimed at the purist for whom sound quality is of prime importance whilst the BK is aimed at people who are looking for furniture.

    According to the review of the SVS by Secrets of Home Theater here the PCi produces THD of 3.37% at 20Hz whereas the BK wouldn't be able to get any where near as low and even at it's lowest measurable frequencies will be producing alarming levels of audible distortion.

    If you want to know how musical the PCi range is, just ask Nimby who uses his 16-46 PCi primarily for music.

    PS - the SVS PB-10 is also sonically superior (as well as physically larger) than the BK and that will only set you back £350
     
  5. Stone Free

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    I am still trying to decide between the BK XLS and the SVS. Would like the SVS but I seem to remember that having the Oak finish costs extra for the SVS.
     
  6. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The wooden finishes are only available on the much more expensive SVS subs
     
  7. oconnpad

    oconnpad
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    Cheers Lads.

    It will be used for movies only, althought i'd like it to work well with music in case i got into DVD-A and SACD but i'm not too bother as yet.

    I don't mind having the cylinder, i have room to hide it. Lucky i have 3 corners in my lounge which it could sit in no problem.

    My last concren, is my rooms not too big for these?
     
  8. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Yours seems to be a fairly standard sized living room and you shouldn't have any trouble with either sub in it
     
  9. Kazman

    Kazman
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    Have you heard the BK and PB10 side by side? Have you heard the BK recently? The BK is a lot better than you are giving it credit for I believe (and I am an SVS owner :) ). I even remember Tom V himself being very impressed with the specs of the BK's driver and amp.

    I personally think the biggest difference between the SVS subs and the little BK will be outright extension in a larger room, the larger the room, the better the SVS will be over the BK, but in a small room, I believe both will be evenly matched.
     
  10. oconnpad

    oconnpad
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    Thanks Ian

    Paddy
     
  11. Stone Free

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    I could have sworn that the Oak finish would later be available in Oak Finish on the PB-10 thread, but that it would cost extra.

    I did not want to spend over £350 anyway.

    Does anyone have pictures of the PB10 in the tan finish, or one of the other non-black finishes?


    My room is 6m by 4.4m, would the PB-10 be too big for this room?
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The PB-10 would just right sonically for that room size but it is an unusual shape as it is a "long" sub
     
  13. Ian J

    Ian J
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    There is a pic of mine here
     
  14. oconnpad

    oconnpad
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    Ian

    Any performance improvement with the tinsel :laugh:
     
  15. Magnet & Steel

    Magnet & Steel
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    Ian,

    just so you know, it costs around £390 (give or take a couple of £) at the moment for the PB10-ISD. i think this is because bax have upped the prices of their shipping.

    oconnpad,

    the PB10 is a fantastic sub and worth every penny mate. im almost 100% you wont be disappointed. :smashin:
     
  16. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Daft comments like that remind me of Servo 15's bursting into flames.
     
  17. MuFu

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    I agree that it's most likely a no-contest in terms of performance - SVS should trample the BK. If they're the same price and you don't mind the look or size of the cylinder, it's an easy choice IMHO.

    Bit of a patronising comment re "furniture" though. I'm sure most people buy the XLS because of it's value for money and performance/size, the former of which SVS owners should be able to relate to. The first version BK ever produced was an "ugly black box", after all.
     
  18. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Of course you are correct which is why I was one of the first people to recommend the BK sub and have continued to do so for the last couple of years.
     
  19. MSYam

    MSYam
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    For those who havent read other posts, I can say that having just unpacked my new silver forward firing XLS200 and had a bit of a play, I think it's an absolutely awesome sub (looks and sound). It's build quality is excellent.

    I certainly didnt buy mine as a piece of furniture - who wants furniture in their bedroom? It's compact size is very nice, but the main reason I decided on the BK was the help from you guys and the fact it is exceptional value for money. I'm well happy... can you tell?
     
  20. Kazman

    Kazman
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    To call the BK sub a piece of furniture is well out of order in my opinion. It is a lovely subwoofer, and on a par with much more exotic items that charge much more for less.

    In fact, I think I might buy one for my bedroom setup :D :devil:
     
  21. Kazman

    Kazman
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    Well, I ordered one today, so should hopefully arrive Monday/Tuesday. I'm looking forward to it.

    Will let it run in for a couple of weeks and do a David & Goliath test with the BK up against the PC Ultra :devil:
     
  22. Tom Vodhanel

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    Hi all,

    No slight against other subs, but the laws of physics affect all subwoofer manufacturers. That is, if you assume both drivers are equally robust(motor strength, excursion,ect)...the MUCH larger, ported enclosure is just going to have a huge advantage in the deep bass. When you factor in the added amp power, and about 40% more cone area in this example...and I can understand why Ian didn't consider the two subwoofers to be performance equals.

    The smaller subwoofer is going to look better to most folks and it will more easily pass the WAF...no denying that of course.

    Tom V.
    SVS
     
  23. Kazman

    Kazman
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    Deeper is not always better though, one could have a sub pounding out sound below 15 hz, but no good if it isn't also quick. I'm sure the PB10 is a fantastic subwoofer, and I love my PC Ultra to bits, the best subwoofer I've heard for less than £2000, but, the speed of a sub is also very important.

    There may be only one way to settle it, a head to head between the BK and PB10 :)

    If someone wishes to bring their PB10 to mine after the BK arrives, we can do a full test, with scientific measurements and subjective opinion. Any takers? :) (The PC Ultra will probably annihalate both of them though :devil: )
     
  24. Tom Vodhanel

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    Hi Kazman,

    Oh yes, personal preferences will enter into any comparison too...not doubt there. In a shootout posted at a different forum...our PB10 was found to be a little "slow" with music. They then added a filter to the PB10 attenuating all of the deep output. Suddenly, it seemed MUCH more detailed with music..:) That shouldn't be a surprised though. We tend to relate "musical" ability to the "speed" of the bass. And the "speed" seems to be directly correlated to the low extension of the subwoofer. The deeper the bass, the longer the sound wave. The longer the sound wave, the longer the "decay" will be. So all things being equal...the subwoofer that loses a lot of steam in the deep bass will very often seem "quicker" subjectively.

    Tom V.
     
  25. Kazman

    Kazman
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    Very good points, I guess it all comes down to personal preference on what an end user wants from their product, everybody has a personal preference on the type of "sound" they prefer.

    I just want to take this opportunity while you are here to thank you for blessing us all with the wonder that is the Ultra driver, it is lovely :D, brings a smile to my face whenever I watch a movie or play music with some low end grunt, I've even managed to get my PC Ultra to 'blend' into the room to the point that most guests do not notice it until pointed out LOL!......or turned on :devil:
     
  26. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Tom, in a review that I read of the PB10 they found that by adding some additional bracing to the cabinet helped reduce the decay time. They had measured it at a very large 1.5s beforehand!

    I understand that the details of the 10" ISD driver have to remain proprietry, but can your provide some basic information about the driver such as it's excursion? You may remember from some of our previous dialogue that the XLS10 driver in question here has a max excursion of 3" (the same as your PCU driver!). From my own research, the XLS10 driver seems to have more in common with your PC+ driver than the 12" ISD model. I gather that the 10" ISD driver was designed from scratch, so which of your 12" models is it closest related to?:)
     
  27. Nimby

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    eviljohn2

    Check "HTF Speakers" for a complete discussion of the bracing V decay phenomenem. And its dismissal as bogus.

    Regards
    Nimby
     
  28. Kazman

    Kazman
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    Ladies, put those handbags away :):).

    I think John is aware that the PB10 is a very good subwoofer, don't think anyone has called it bad. Come on now, kissy kissy, shake hands, and make up :)

    We need a cuddle smiley :devil:

    We all have our favourites, but more importantly, the majority of us respect the ability of other products despite our own faves :D I for one always give credit where it is deserved, and I know John, yourself and countless others do too. It's what makes this site so unique.

    Come on now, let me see those hands shaking.... :)
     
  29. Tom Vodhanel

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    >>>Very good points, I guess it all comes down to personal preference on what an end user wants from their product, everybody has a personal preference on the type of "sound" they prefer.<<<

    Yes, very true.

    The important aspect of that thought is that we realize WHY we prefer one *sound* over another. We have all seen many audio myths perpetuated (all ported subwoofers are "boomy" for example) because proper thought isn't given into the "why" of it all(imo)..:)


    >>>I just want to take this opportunity while you are here to thank you for blessing us all with the wonder that is the Ultra driver, it is lovely , brings a smile to my face whenever I watch a movie or play music with some low end grunt, I've even managed to get my PC Ultra to 'blend' into the room to the point that most guests do not notice it until pointed out LOL!......or turned on<<<

    The Ultra is quite the driver, massive 10 layer coil, dual 10" mirrored spiders, underhung...pretty intense stuff..:)

    Tom V.
     
  30. Tom Vodhanel

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    >>>Tom, in a review that I read of the PB10 they found that by adding some additional bracing to the cabinet helped reduce the decay time. They had measured it at a very large 1.5s beforehand!<<<


    Right, down to 35dB I believe? For anyone who reckons a panel resonance will be audible at 35dB...try measuring something that registers that low on your SPL meter(assuming you have a meter that will even measure that low). Then decide for yourself...would this sound I just measured (at 35dB) be audible to me if it was being produced a couple meters away from me...in my home theater room...with the system at normal playback levels.



    >>>I understand that the details of the 10" ISD driver have to remain proprietry, but can your provide some basic information about the driver such as it's excursion?<<<


    Over 2", peak to peak...almost all linear.


    >>> You may remember from some of our previous dialogue that the XLS10 driver in question here has a max excursion of 3" (the same as your PCU driver!).<<<

    Hmmm, everything I have read about the "XLS" series indicates clean stroke in the 12-14mm range...or about 1/2" each way. Can you reference the information that shows 1.5" of stroke each way? Thanks.



    >>>From my own research, the XLS10 driver seems to have more in common with your PC+ driver than the 12" ISD model. I gather that the 10" ISD driver was designed from scratch, so which of your 12" models is it closest related to<<<

    The 10" driver in the PB10 was a "from scratch" unit. If I had to pick one of our 12s it was most closely related too...I'd say our dB12

    Tom V.
     

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