Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Steve Bate, Nov 22, 2002.
Extension down to 6hz
Loose info here
If SVS had a UK supplier my guess is they would do very well, certainly take a large bite out of Rel and M&K in sub sales. When our cousins across the pond constantly sing the praises of SVS subs it's time to take notice. The UK's magazines/journalists seem to be very ignorant to what's big in the US when it comes to subwoofers, before I came to this forum I thought the M&K range of subs were untouchable thanks to HCC, what a wake up call I got
Interesting isn't it that the 3 sub manufacturers that are talked about about in significant detail here now are Velodyne, Paradigm and SVS.
Even in the stratospheric price range that the HGS sits in it's still good dB/£ value compared to M&K and Rel. We should take a leaf out of our US cousins book when it comes to purchasing AV, they demand quality, value and service, over here we seem to want to sacrifice the value to get good quality and service
I looked in at a US forum recently (not AVS) and they were discussing budget subwoofers. Someone was asking which of four was the best for $200 and I had never heard of any of them. I did a little investigating (I asked Eric) and he told me that two of the four had quite a good reputation, unlike the budget boom boxes available over here.
I don't suppose that mainstream mags would publish much about what's not available here as it would be of limited interest.
The problem with Apocalypse's suggestion of SVS having a UK supplier is that they keep their prices down by dealing directly with the public. As well as having to pay import duties, freight and Vat, if they used a UK distributor it would completely negate the price advantage that they have over companies like Velodyne as one would have to factor in their overhead and profit as well.
I have frequently looked at SVS web site and been sorely tempted but apart from having to use voltage transformers I would be worried about the cost and time involved if it needed a repair under warranty so I always take the easy option and buy Welsh.
Velodyne and Paradigm ( not SVS ) may be talked about a lot here but that is because they have a very limited but enthusiastic following amongst forum members. I don't know how many HGS owners there are but it may be 10 to 12. Probably the same number of Servo 15 owners but I know of only two people that own SVS.
I wouldn't mind betting that many more members actually own a REL though and quite a few are very happy with them for a variety of reasons. The three that you mentioned are all large whereas many do not have room for such a beast or in my case do not want a front firing sub as they don't mix well with young kids.
Sessen Ryu, Bone Daddy and me, maybe a couple others.
By the way they come with UK power supplies I also have 2 kids under 5, the HC room is also their playroom, they are probably about the most child friendly subs out there and they've got a fairly small footprint. They are tall tho'
Valid points Ian J, I suppose what I really meant to say was if peeps in the UK could get them direct without having to pay import duty etc and have a warranty site in the UK (like peeps in the US currently have)
As Steve said - they sort out the voltage - just plug in and go
If anything did go wrong with the sub then it's unlikey that you would have to send back the whole thing. Just the faulty component (as most of you seem to be aware, there customer service is excellent - they'll guide you every step of the way if the driver/amp needed to be replaced).
I was pondering for weeks whether I should take the risk of buying an SVS. But after reading literally hundreds of reviews from hugely satisfied SVS owners, many an email back and forth from the guys who actually built and designed the sub (always fast replies) and many a shop demo of Yamaha, Kef, M&K, Rel (Q150, Q200, Q400) I decided that it was worth going for. And I'm so glad I did.
The most expensive sub I demo'ed was the Rel Q400E. What do they go for now -- something like £850? (I think they used to be a grand(?)). Well, my 20-39PCi, with shipping, duty, VAT etc came to about £630 (it'll be cheaper now due to the arrival of the PC+) and, IMHO, would eat the Q400E for breakfast.
SVS are downfiring, stable (bottom heavy) and well protected (it's hard to even see the driver, let alone touch it).
Yes I'm sure there are many satisfied Rel owners - as always, it's about personal preference as many people do not want a sub the size of an SVS in their front room - it's unfortunate that small enclosures are the bane of good bass.
For info, I noticed on garmtz's gallery page the other day that he has replaced his Bag-End Infrasub-18 with a SVS 20-39 CS-Plus driven by a Bryston 6B. So he's another convert to SVS now...
Just out of interest...
My Rel Stygian, which I brought off a friend for £200, is about 10 years old...
When this guy brought it, he paid around £200-400. Then, when Rel became a bigger name, and got distributours etc. the price almost doubled.
If anyone remembers the stadium mk I and II, they were basically the same sub, 2 downward firing 10" drivers, 100W amp etc. but the Stadium cost £1000....
He He He!!
Yeah Steve,makes for some intresting reading all these bits on the U.S.A. forums,just read a bit on `Home Theatre` forum from Ron saying that it`s a completly new line aimed at those that can`t envisage a cylinder in the room,ranging from some priced in and around the `PC-I` and PC Plus range up to the `if you have to ask,you can`t afford it` gotta admit I realy love the look of the tube compared to the box shape.
Some other owners I think are Kain and Noman (Anders) and maybe a few others - c`mon Ian press that button
The only bad thing about SVS is that they never give up pushing the limits. I was not happy when I heard about the super sub a couple of months ago when my PC+ was on it´s way
Ian, will you be the first supersub owner on the forum??
We do have more passive sales overseas than powered units---just for the reasons mentioned here. (having the elctronics serviced locally).
The *supersub*(working title) won't be for everyone. Big, heavy,and expensive. (well, expensive for SVS)
It won't be THX-2 though...
But it will be TV-X.
TV-X standards, if you have to ask...don't bother applying for certification
Anyone who is interested in importing powerful cylindrical subs from USA should have a look at http://store.yahoo.com/hsusubs/index.html where they are even cheaper.
Like the sound of the TV-X standard Tom
Cheers but no thanks. Friend of mine bought one of these rubbish bins from HSU who were later copied by SVS, same rubbish. The whole caboodle is a 70 dollar bodge up job. Thin cardboard like mdf to make up the cylinder, chinese amp on a piece of chipboard finished off by an equally crappy cone. My mate said he's chucked it in the bin since. Dam thing fell apart. I wouldn't go near any of these dustbins. All this balony about direct to the public at first appears like good value. If they are cutting out everyone, we should be getting Merc quality. We're not! Its all a big con.
Cheapo back street operators is all they are.
I don't know about the HSU cylindrical copies but the HSU VTF3 is a good sub pritty quite close to some the SVS cylinder subwoofers.
Can`t say I know of the quality of the Hsu`s Steve,but I do know of the quality of the Svs`s and I drive mercedes (s-class 600) for a living and there ain`t much in it,quality wise. Just because svs have a cylindrical shape like Hsu does not mean they should be tarred with the same brush,have you got or heard a Svs ???
That depends what you're comparing your cylinder with.
Yes, I've heard one of these over in the US and can't say I was impressed one bit. My mate in the states said that HSU were the original inventors of this shape and svs was a copy. Sorry but I don't rate either as I've heard both. Wouldn't pay 100 notes for them.
SVS uses a proprietary 1/4" THICK pressed fiber cylinder for all cylindrical subwoofers. Our PC+,CS+,and Ultra subs include 1.5" thick BIRCH endcaps. (the other models *only* have 1" thick baffles... The BASH amps we use are manufactured by our North American brothers just over the border in Canada. ALL the drivers we used are manufactured in the USA. Seems someone is a bit confused about our products? As for *shoddy performance*, well we can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time...but a quick internet search combined with a look-see of the professional reviews we've linked on our website will help put things in a different perspective I think.
As for "copying" another manufacturer. For this statement to have ANY validity...you would then need to embrace the idea that EVERY "box" design in every subwoofer or full range speaker is simply a "ripoff copy" of the last box design from another manufacturer....sheer folly.
The SVS Sub I baught from these "big con.
Cheapo back street operators" gives me a better value and better overall performance then my REL, my Sunfire and my Boston Acoustics Subs baught on "High-street".
I said Cylinders not boxes. HSU did this before you did they not?
You're good at ducking and diving Mr V.
Excuse me but little REL's, crappy Sunfires and dare I say even more crappy Bostons are hardly great subs.
I don't know how to make a sub but I bet if I put a cone into a large Pepsi can I can get better bass. Its all hype mate. Wake up.
>>>I said Cylinders not boxes. HSU did this before you did they not?
You're good at ducking and diving Mr V.<<<
Yes. And using your *definition* of "copy" this means every single speaker ever made using any sort of 6 sided *box* is simply a ripoff copy of someone elses design for the past century? Since you failed to address this simple analogy(and how foolish it indicates your accusation is) the first time...I suppose it's fairly obvious at this point you are only here to offer personal attacks(what a "con" I am) and misrepresent a manufacturers product line as fast as you can type it seems). Even when I take the time to politely correct your misrepresentations you ignore this and continue with your rant.
>>>Excuse me but little REL's, crappy Sunfires and dare I say even more crappy Bostons are hardly great subs.
I don't know how to make a sub but I bet if I put a cone into a large Pepsi can I can get better bass. Its all hype mate. Wake up.<<<
Oh yes! Professionals like Tom Nousaine(one of the most honored members of the AES!),John Kotches,Howard Ferstler,John Johnson,Brian Weatherhead,Brian Mitchell,David Bott,Peter Staddon,ect,ect...not to mention THOUSANDS of SV owners are all being "conned" by SVS. Our performance is WELL documented(with TONs of objective performance data collected under controlled conditions) by numerous industry professionals. How you can continue to post such slanderous comments about a company while CLEARLY having no care about the accuracy of those statements is well beyond me.
Don´t take any notice, Forum members acting like this Steve T probably can´t help themselves. This kind of acute asocial behaviour in most cases arises from severe genetic disorder.
I´m leaving this thread...
It's posters like Steve Thornes who add no value and slag off others views without justification that are de-valuing what was once an exceptional site.
Post like those above drive away the knowledgeable members some of whom are extremely well qualified to post and have done so in an unbiased manner and also ensure that any representatrion by the manufacturers is lost.
I've been a member here for a long time and the general attitude over the last few months has been diabolical, I feel the battle of trying to keep these forums friendly and informative is being lost, a great shame
Ah this brings back memories, more idiots posting complete rubbish.
Did you know the new THX 2 Velodyne HGS 18 'Goadzilla' is a copy of the Rel Quake? They both use boxes, drivers and amps you know.
I wunder which was his previous alter ego? Ian J, what are you doing today?
Best just ignored. Mind you Velodyne HGS 18 don't go low enough do they.
Don't worry about it! It is not worth wasting the bandwidth.
HSU 'inventing' the cylinder. Chortle chortle. That made me laugh.
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