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Svs pb13 ultra vs 2 sunfire eq 12 signature subs

i_raz

Prominent Member
Does anyone know how the pb13 ultra compares with 2 sunfire signature subs?

Also is there much difference between the bash amp and the sledge amp on the pb13.

Comments will be appreciated.

Thanks
 

canada16uk

Established Member
The Sledge has a digital 1000w amp, the bash only has about 750 IIRC.
I got a PC13-Ultra 1000w from Frank Harvey hifi, and it blows me away everytime I watch movies, and its great for music as well, for music I run it in sealed mode.
Not heard the Sunfire's
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
Thanks for your response.

Any tips on setting it up properly? I haven't messed with the eq settings yet as I need to get my head around them first. I have tried 2 port bungs and 3 bungs also.

I have done the standard 8 audyssey points and i'm not very impressed with the results so far. At the moment I still prefer a single sunfire over the pb13 and i cant see what the hype is about at the moment!

I probably haven't set it up properly and may need some time to play with the settings.
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
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Some photos for size comparison, the svs dwarfs the sunfire!
 

Member 116841

Distinguished Member
Before anyone challenges, yes, I have heard the Sunfire.

I never got on with the Sunfire subs. They were impressively loud for their size, and went quite low too, but I never really got any sense of the Sunfires covering a wide range of frequencies - it always sounded like they were only covering 25-40Hz or something, regardless of settings. A little bit like car subs really that cover a limited bandwidth.

It'll be a case of experimenting to get the most out of it in your room. I'm assuming you've had the Sunfires for a while and you've probably tweaked and messed about with them and you're getting the best from them at the moment. When Audyssey asks you on setup to set the sub to 75dB, set it to 85dB...
 
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hoppaz

Prominent Member
I owned a sunfire hrs 12 which had a 1000w of power and went down to 18hz before dropping off. You have two 12" subs with two passive drivers and 2,700w per sub of downward tracking technology to give a good transient response. One of the reasons I avoided the true or eq models was with the sum of all parts they have been known for distortion, maybe because they hit and then exceed xmax ever so slightly. The svs maybe cleaner but under 18-20hz is where you'll see a main difference IMO.
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
David/Hoppaz

Thanks for your responses.

I would have thought you would get distortion at high volumes only? I set my onkyo level to zero and the sunfire volume knob to about one fifth only which is fairly low.
With the sunfires I can really feel the sofa shake and I can feel the bass on my chest but with the pb13 I just don't get the same effect.

I will tweak the settings further on the pb13. I must be doing something wrong otherwise im sure so many people wouldn't have raved about the pb13.
 

hoppaz

Prominent Member
David/Hoppaz

Thanks for your responses.

I would have thought you would get distortion at high volumes only? I set my onkyo level to zero and the sunfire volume knob to about one fifth only which is fairly low.
With the sunfires I can really feel the sofa shake and I can feel the bass on my chest but with the pb13 I just don't get the same effect.

I will tweak the settings further on the pb13. I must be doing something wrong otherwise im sure so many people wouldn't have raved about the pb13.

Yes when pushed to the extreme you may well get some distortion due to the sum of all parts of the Sunfire. Are you EQ'ing the SVS in any way?

I am also keen to learn how you ended up going from your old Sunfire set-up to the SVS? Was it on advice or recommendation?
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
I don't think I push the sunfires too much as it becomes overbearing if you have 2 subs on.

I'm using audyssey xt32 on my Onkyo 3008.

I thought I'd try the pb13 as they are highly rated on this forum to see how good they are. Also a friend recommend it. One came up for sale not too far from me so I thought I'd try it. I am always changing my setup and trying different things!

I still have my sunfires and if I can't get on with the pb13 then i will stick to the sunfires.
 

saguk1234

Prominent Member
I think the PC13/PB13 don't sound good when fully sealed. Its probably best to use the 15hz tune with one port bunged. Or try it unbunged.
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
I think the problem is the Ultras don't offer as much mid range punch as the sunfires.

If you listen to some music which goes to 20hz or below, this is where your really here the ultra come into its own.
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
saguk1234 said:
I think the PC13/PB13 don't sound good when fully sealed. Its probably best to use the 15hz tune with one port bunged. Or try it unbunged.

Thanks i have been using it with 2 and 3 ports sealed i will try it with one.
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
aandpwoodley said:
I think the problem is the Ultras don't offer as much mid range punch as the sunfires.

If you listen to some music which goes to 20hz or below, this is where your really here the ultra come into its own.

Thanks to be honest I don't really listen to music its mainly for movies!
I note you sold yours recently and purchased the dd18±. How do you find the dd18?
 

Tom @ PSA

Prominent Member
AVForums Sponsor
When switching extension/tuning modes on adjustable subwoofers remember to recalibrate after each switch. Going from "20hz" to "sealed" will likely reduce the overall output of the subwoofer 2-3dB in the 40-80hz range(where most bass calibration tones are iirc). And if you look at the 20-80hz bandwidth...you're probably losing 4-5dB(!).

If you don't adjust the bass volume accordingly any preference for one mode versus the other will be strongly influenced by the simple change in bass volume levels. Same goes when comparing subs to one another. If possible get a basic FR for each and tweak the output levels to try to match everything as much as possible. No FR?...at the least level match the subs with a SPL meter. If you don't do either...you may simply have a preference for the subwoofer with a slightly higher volume setting.

Tom V.
 

aandpwoodley

Distinguished Member
Thanks to be honest I don't really listen to music its mainly for movies!
I note you sold yours recently and purchased the dd18±. How do you find the dd18?

I love my DD18+, easily the best part of my system, very punchy & how's loads & loads of low end grunt.

For the size of the cabinet it's a remarkable piece of engineering
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
aandpwoodley said:
I love my DD18+, easily the best part of my system, very punchy & how's loads & loads of low end grunt.

For the size of the cabinet it's a remarkable piece of engineering

I had the dd15 along time ago and that was very good. I assume the dd18 is a big improvement over that.
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
My wife compared one sunfire to the pb13 and she preferred the sound of the pb13 saying it's cleaner! I'm beginning to note that it does sound cleaner than the sunfire! Although it doesn't go as loud as the sunfire.

I'm not sure in have it set up in the ideal position.

I have set the pb13 in the position as shown in the photo. It is firing across the room.

Will it make any difference if i face it towards the projector screen so it is firing into the wall? Alternatively will it make a difference if it fires directly towards the sofa next to it?

My projector screen is too low and it won't fit under the screen which would have been ideal. If i have it in the front of the room firing towards me it would have been ideal but it just dominates the room.



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Member 639844

Former Advertiser
The PB13u is one of the louder commercial subwoofers out there. Its just your perception because the upper bass of the ultra is so much cleaner compared to a sunfire, which is probably full of it, and thats what your ears focus on at first, making itsound louder than it actually is. Its a not to uncommon trick used by many a manufacturer in an attempt to make a sub seem more capable than it actually is.
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
I guess It will take some time to adjust to the pb13. I was thinking about selling it on but I think I may just keep it now. It's just that 2 sunfires really energise the room and really shake the sofa. I can't get the same effect from the pb13.

However, I have a quake q10b on order so I will use that with the pb13 then I may have best of both worlds, clean bass and a shaking sofa!
 

Member 639844

Former Advertiser
Ive been in rooms where the ultra shakes everything and rooms where it doesnt. The sunfires have the advantage of being a pair and likely that means a better in room response. Maybe the single sub has a null somewhere or maybe its just the cleaner sound. The best thing you could do is totally remove the sunfires and give yourself a good long month or so with the ultra and see how you get on. The ultra is definitely a better sub than the sunfires, but there is also always the possibility that in the end, it may just not be for you. You do need to give it chance though, because after a month or more without the sunfires, going back to them may be an eye opener, or a resolution.

As an interesting side note, women dont seem to like what I would call 'thick' bass, and many do seem to prefer the ultra style bass because its cleaner, though they rarely like its size.
 

SPINO

Prominent Member
I remember when i had the smaller 20-39 pc plus SVS sub and no matter what i tried to do , tweaking it moving it etc etc i could not get it to sound anything like what i thought it should .. enter the Antimode , best couple of Hundred quid i ever spent .. Try this before you make any decisions ..Cheers John
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
i_raz said:
I guess It will take some time to adjust to the pb13. I was thinking about selling it on but I think I may just keep it now. It's just that 2 sunfires really energise the room and really shake the sofa. I can't get the same effect from the pb13.

This is most likely a room null or setup issue.

Have you tried different ports? REW sweeps? EQ? Sub location? Gain?

Edit btw, is that a MA pl series centre sitting on the floor? Does it work well with the non pl mains?
 
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i_raz

Prominent Member
Moonfly

I will try it for sometime and see how I get on.

I must admit that it sounds louder and deeper in the hallway than in my actual room when the door is open.

I will have to get my friends to listen to in the future rather than the Mrs!
 

i_raz

Prominent Member
MI55ION said:
This is most likely a room null or setup issue.

Have you tried different ports? REW sweeps? EQ? Sub location? Gain?

Edit btw, is that a MA pl series centre sitting on the floor? Does it work well with the non pl mains?

I have tried all the ports. Not sure what rew is? Is that the software from room eq wizard website? If so will i need a microphone like the radioshack to use this? I am about to order one shortly.

EQ - - i assume you mean the one on the sub, if so not yet as I need a display of the in room frequency response before I can play with that.

Sub location - - fairly restricted in terms of where I can locate it as it is very large. At the moment it's been in the same place as i need another person to help me move it. I can push it along the carpet on my own but the rubber under the sub marks the carpet so it has to be lifted.
At the moment is facing another sofa opposite the room and some double glazed windows.
Do think it will make a difference if i face it towards the projection screen but then it will be facing away from me?

Gain - - i have tried this but if I raise it to much then the sub reaches it excursion limit very quickly. At the moment the gain is at about half.

Centre speaker - this is the plc350 and it's massive! I think it works really well with the gs60's. Photo attached below. The smaller plc150 on the stand was sold sometime ago.



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