SVS announces new "low-price" product

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Ettepet, Aug 10, 2004.

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  1. Ettepet

    Ettepet
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    Two days ago SVS announced a new smaller subwoofer, the PB10-ISD, with according to SVS price-point shattering performance. The $400 sub will have a 10'' woofer, also from TC-Sounds, and will be available in several colors. It will be a box-model, have a BASH-amp, and contain a 3'' front-port(!). It will be a highly musical sub, without any compromises elsewhere. For further info see the SVS-site, and this forum, offering lots of extra info by Ron Stimpson.

    There is also talk about another new product which will be a direct competitor for the UFW-10 (wood-fineer, smaller size). :)
    ----

    On a further note, all box models will be renamed:

    PB1-ISD will become PB12-ISD

    PB2-Plus will become PB12-Plus/2

    PB1-Plus will become PB12-Plus (no "1" will we used on subs with one woofer, it'll be understood)

    B4-Plus will be B12-Plus/4 (maybe, it's a low volume special sub we might leave unmolested by all this ;^)

    etc etc.
     
  2. Nimby

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    Now wasn't that a nice coincidence? :)

    Beatles will have his musical SVS subwoofer after all. :D

    I just hope the SVS factory is big enough to cope with the demand. ;)

    I wonder if the 10" SVS (sorry PB10-ISD) will support high level connections? :cool:

    Anybody awake enough to remember the exchange rate for $400 : GBP conversion + Bax + VAT for a ballpark figure on the doorstep? :confused:

    It might be just the thing for true stereo subwoofery! :D

    Nimby
     
  3. ShinObiWAN

    ShinObiWAN
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    Around £350 all in.
     
  4. Nimby

    Nimby
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    Thanks. :)

    Nimby
     
  5. scouse

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    that would put it squarely in the BK xls200 range wouldn't it... i wonder which would be better...
     
  6. Nobber22

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    Haven't you been paying attention? Beatles only shops for high-end subs with mega price tags, 'cos he's loaded. :D
     
  7. eviljohn2

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    I'd be surprised if there was much (if any) difference. Other than cosmetic of course.

    We discovered during the budget sub test that once you had a good quality driver, big amplifier unit and a solid cabinet that there really wasn't much between them. The differences being derived from implementation (eg. the Kef having an oval cabinet).

    It would definitely be interesting to see how it turns out though :)
     
  8. samhain

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    Agreed !! This should be the foundations of all subwoofers not just some.

    Beattles really has some you guys rattled hasn't he LOL :blush:
     
  9. Nimby

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    Rat-t-t-t-led? Who me? :blush:

    Oh. That'll be the SVS! :devil:

    Nimby
     
  10. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel
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    >>>I'd be surprised if there was much (if any) difference. Other than cosmetic of course. It would definitely be interesting to see how it turns out though<<<


    Hi all,

    One of the primary performance issues we dealt with on this project was trying to offer true extension down to 20hz. This isn't..."in a small room, you'll hear a little bit at 20hz" type of thing. We measure all of our products quasi-anechoic (outside, at least 75ft from the nearest reflective boundary). We have refined this design to such an extent that the FR curves (measured with LMS) are +/- 1dB from 21-125hz measured quasi-anechoic.(yes, that is plus/minus one dB) Using the industry standard +/- 3dB window...it would be about 18-160hz. In a typical room...output down to the 16-17hz range would certainly be no surprise.

    We'll have all the FR measurements on the website soon. I think it would be very cool if the SVS could be included in a future subwoofer shootout like the one just mentioned!

    Thanks to all for the interest in our products!

    Tom V.
     
  11. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    If I volunteer to hold it here and you ship one over, can I keep the SVS :D

    Dave
     
  12. bob1

    bob1
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    What is the size of this sub?
    I think i might buy one of the if its within (my) waf limits.
    Please be small enough :thumbsup: and did someone say silver :laugh:
     
  13. Ian J

    Ian J
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    If it performs as well as Tom's figures it seems that SVS will have another world beater in the price performance stakes on their hands and I can see a few pairs being sold to forum members as well as single units.

    What I find most amazing is that for approximately £350 delivered we are talking about a top performing sub with a TC Sounds driver and a Bash amp just like it's bigger brothers - all components manufactured and assembled in either Canada or USA without any cheap Far Eastern components in it at all.

    If it performs as well as Tom say, there may be a 20-39 PC Plus for sale in the classifieds with a pair of these babies on their way to the West Midlands to replace them.
     
  14. Nimby

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    The flexibility they would offer in positioning is very tempting isn't it? True stereo subs flat to 20Hz? I just hope they remembered to keep the high level connections for all those stereo only people with no LFE out. :smashin:

    How on earth are they going to cope with the demand? I think SVS is going to need a bigger factory after the first reviews. It's competing directly with the big players but offering a (claimed) level of perfomance that makes a lot of (Chinese-assembled) badged boxes look quite silly. Ah well, there goes exclusivity! :devil:

    From what's been said so far on the various AV fora it may be slightly larger than expected. :D
    So bob1 is just going to have to take self-assertion classes or he's never going to get an SVS. ;)

    Nimby
     
  15. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Thanks Tom, that definitely sounds interesting. My BK easily went down to 20Hz but was starting to wobble a bit at 18Hz. Can you confirm what sort of dimensions it will have? The BK is just under a cubic foot with a 10" driver or will it be more comparable to something like the MS309/ Paradigm PDR10 etc in size?

    If you send me one I'll do another test between the 2 and post the results ;)
     
  16. Ettepet

    Ettepet
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    The PB10-ISD will be larger than one cubic foot, since mention is made of a smaller model - to come - that will be smaller than the PB10-ISD, to compete with the UFW-10 (which is one cubic foot as well).

    Information sources have run a bit dry, so we will have to wait a bit longer for the physical measurements, I bet. ;)
     
  17. Nimby

    Nimby
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    No reflection on your BK sub at all. But there's more to it than just reaching down to 20Hz.

    How loud it goes at 20Hz. And at what level of distortion. Are even more important. Low distortion is essential to avoid muddying the higher frequencies. Which would otherwise require a very low cut-off frequency to match full range speakers without ruining the sound quality. While max SPL tells you what level of headroom you're getting. Dynamic range is essential to music and film enjoyment. It's the shock factor that keeps you on the edge of your seat.

    Knowing SVS reputation in the bigger sizes. They will be very competitive in sheer SPL and very low distortion with their new 10". Tom is quoting +/-1dB. Not some arbitrary in-room figure. :)

    Interesting times ahead. Subs just keep getting better and better. :smashin:

    Nimby
     
  18. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I know that, I do have a small grasp of the physics and electronics involved :)
     
  19. Tom Vodhanel

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    Hi all,

    This isn't a small enclosure by any standard. (about 15x19x22". (wxhxd)..with the grille). We weren't going for the small cube thing here...just trying to provide max performance at a given MSRP.

    Tom V.
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

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    Hi evil,

    The interesting part about the BK subwoofer is the driver is a generic peerless I believe? Isn't it this driver...

    http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/297-604.pdf

    Available at partsexpress.com

    If so, you can take those t/s parameters (a 12mm xmax is quite good btw), and apply them to the enclosure...and then simulate the response curves for the subwoofer. If we have time later today...we'll try this with our LEAP system (www.linearx.com) and I can email anyone interested the data we get.

    Tom V.
    SVS
     
  21. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    Yes, that's the driver. Not necessarily the best but certainly among them (I'm in no position to study the merits of various drivers).

    Definitely interested in the results of any analysis you do, send them to eviljohn2 at hotmail.com (without the spaces and with an @ instead of the at).

    I assume you've read much of the information on here about the XLS200 but it seemed to perform the best in our mini sub test even though it had the smallest (and only sealed IIRC) enclosure by some distance. Unfortunately I'm in no position to demo an SVS, nor would I have the space to put one if I could but I'm very interested in getting around the hype surrounding various subs.

    As you may have gathered, I'm currently a physics undergraduate specialising in semiconductor technology but obviously I havn't been able to study subwoofers or hifi in any depth! :)
     
  22. Nimby

    Nimby
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    My apologies if I sounded patronising. :D

    My post was simply to clarify why simply mentioning a low frequency has little to do with actual subwoofer performance.

    Being fully aware of the huge gaps in my own knowledge: I try to aim my posts at a rather wider audience than the few who post here regularly. Or indeed the person who I appear to be responding to directly.

    Generalisations can be fun. But are rarely educational. Those hungry for knowledge will latch onto any comment here and add that to their knowledge base as if it were a fact. They turn up at the high street dealers and stand between the washing machines and fridges and demand a 20Hz subwoofer. Cus eviljohn said the magic 20Hz mantra. So it must be right. Yeh? :cool:

    Lacking the supporting details like +/- 3dB and minimum SPL they can be fobbed off with almost anything called a subwoofer. Another first sub is sold. Boombaboombaboomba. :oops:

    It makes you wonder why REL, SVS, Velodyne, B&W or even BK bother to make a range of the damned things. Doesn't it? Surely (almost) anything will do. As long as it reaches 20Hz. (somehow or other) :devil:

    Nimby ;)
     
  23. bob1

    bob1
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    You wait and see :p
     
  24. eviljohn2

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    Not to worry Nimby, I do the same and there are so many smilies around it's hard to take anything personally!

    I was thinking along the lines of the test we did where (contrary to what some of the reviewers have measured) even the MS909 dropped off at ~23Hz along with the MS309. The obvious conclusion from that is that it's a built in drop-off.

    I havn't quite worked out why there's quite the range that there is, unlike regular speaker design where tonal differences etc are far more apparent, as long as a subwoofer is made with good quality components and is solidly built they should all sound practically the same. I think that the differences people here between them are due to the weakest part of the design over anything else. As I mentioned earlier; in principle, once you have a low distortion driver, a big amp and a solid cabinet then you should have a good quality sub (aside from differences in driver/cabinet size and things like reflex ports which have natural physical ramifications).

    SVS and a number of other companies certainly exploit this and seem to have a range of excellent and affordable subs which all perform brilliantly from what I've heard.
     
  25. Nimby

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    Something naughty? :devil:

    Nímby
     
  26. bob1

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    I think i might just fit that in :devil:
     
  27. Dfour

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    Well thats nearly killed all thoughts about replacing the 150 watt amp on my 309 with a nice 600watt version from bkelec.com to see what happons as the 409 has the same dimentions and a bigger amp :devil:
     
  28. bob1

    bob1
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    Just checked the svs site and it looks like it shouldn't be too long before we get to see a picture and results of the sub.Come on svs the suspense is killing me :laugh:.
     
  29. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I've seen their test results from the BK which seem very impressive, so considering the new SVS has almost twice the cabinet volume I'd be surprised if it was anything but awesome for the price!
     
  30. Tom Vodhanel

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    >>>I've seen their test results from the BK which seem very impressive, so considering the new SVS has almost twice the cabinet volume I'd be surprised if it was anything but awesome for the price!<<<


    Hi Evil,

    The curve we sent you for the XLS driver was a simultation based on the specs of the driver and the box size it is used in. Although the program simulating it is very powerful (LEAP), nothing beats measuring the subwoofer for real..:) The upcoming PB10 curves are real--measured from an operating unit. Not a big deal, I just wanted to be sure everyone was clear on that distinction.

    Tom V.
     
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