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SVHS input is way better than RGBs input on the Panny 42" 5 series Plasma!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Jackass, Jan 18, 2003.

  1. Jackass

    Jackass
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    Guys,

    I'm using a JS RGB to SVHS converter on my Nokia 221T FTA DTV box and sending a SVHS signal to my Panny 42" 5 series.

    I recently aquired a scart to RGBs cable and thought YES an even better picture could be possible, WRONG!!!

    The picture i'm getting through the JS box to SVHS is way better than the RGBs input on the Panny and doesn't suffer from any artifacts when viewing the RGBs signal.

    Looking at the input block diagrams in the service manual for the Panny, the S-VHS signal goes through a picture improver circuit which maybe explains this better quality picture i'm getting.

    Steve.
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Or perhaps the RGB lead isn't very good or the internal conversion from component to RGB in the set top box isn't very clever.....You should see if you can get one of Johns RGBtoVGA convertors and use the PC input on the plasma or a RGBtoComponent transocder and use the BNC inputs.

    Gordon
     
  3. DaveCheltenham

    DaveCheltenham
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    Jackass - I assume this is not a wind up but double conversion better than direct RGB input does not ring true. (No pun intended)

    I can compare S-VHS and direct RGB from my Sky+ box and although S-VHS is good, direct RGB is better with no artifacts.

    I suspect there is something wrong with the RGB connection/cable. What SCART to RGB-Sync cable are you using?
     
  4. MAW

    MAW
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    Everyone herer talks about RGB-component/VGA/S-Video, and these cables are hardly mentioned. QED make one, scart to 6 phono, like this . This should connect and work on the RCA board, shouldn't it? And if not why not please? And why is an electronic converter better? Never understood that one, just do it!
     
  5. DaveCheltenham

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    Just what I use MAW but the home made version and BNC.

    Couldn't agree with you more on your comments and the only reason I can think of for processing/converting RGB-Sync to anything else is connectivity. i.e. Using the VGA input and leaving the Plasma component input connections free.
     
  6. MAW

    MAW
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    Yes, you lose s-vid as you have to synch on composite. And component of course. But if all your scarts are RGB then can you daisy chain them? I've never tried that, as my dvd is HCPC. That would just leave you with VHS. I can feel an iscan coming on....
     
  7. DaveCheltenham

    DaveCheltenham
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    Maw - I daisy chain with my Sky+, Laservision and DVD player. You have to be careful as some equipment does not pass through RGB, only composite and audio. The original On-Digital Nokia Mediamaster is an example of this.
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    MAW: Of course a Scart to 4 phono lead would work. It is done for connectivity.

    Gordon
     
  9. Jackass

    Jackass
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    Guys,

    This is not a wind up, I wish it was as i've blown £65 on the QED lead MAW quoted and it's currently in a heap on the floor.
    I'm not spending any more money on converters as this is getting silly and i can't see the picture getting any better for a Plasma screen, maybe if it was a CRT set but not Plasma.
    The Nokia box only has one output which is RGB scart which i use for either the SVHS method or the RGBs (Scart) method so it is not the conversion in the box that is at fault.

    I have the silver Panny which does not have BNC connections.

    Even her indoors said the SVHS was the better picture and believe me when both of us agree then something must be working right. :D

    I would like to hear from someone who has tried both of these methods.

    Steve.
     
  10. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Just because the Nokia is capable of turning YPrPb to Y/C well doesn't mean it is as capable of turing it to RGBCOMPOSITE sync well. You now need to check the Nokia box with another identical box or swap the plasma's to see if it is defective. I don't doubt you both feel the S-video feed is better, it's just it shouldn't be.

    Gordon
     
  11. NeilMcRae

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    I have both of these. I have the QED cable and JS RGB2Svideo Box [and the RGB to VGA box].

    Using a Sony DVD player and a PACE NTL cable box and a PS-2, the RGB+S cable gives the best quality out of the three of them. The only thing that i've used thats better is a component connection.

    Regards,
    Neil.
     
  12. NeilMcRae

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    After thinking about this more check the following:

    Make sure the TV is set to RGB with sync on composite and that its on the RGB input and not composite input.

    Make sure the Nokia box is actually outputting an RGB signal and not just composite.

    It sounds like you are getting just a composite signal from the Nokia box which would be worse than S-video.

    Neil.
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    Forgive my silly questions, but there are 3 distinct flavours of RGB as I see it, depending on synch on G, composite synch or H+V synch. Is there a standard version for domestic RGB enabled devices, or is it just luck whether you buy the right cable, 3, 4 or 5 connectors, (RCA or BNC, take your pick.) Obviously, electonic converters can be made to autodetect and do the correct operation, with a 21 pin scart connection, but if you don't have the right cable, you won't be connected to the right pins. Do all STB's synch on composite? What about DVD's
     
  14. Jackass

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    Gordon do you have a spare plasma i can borrow? :rolleyes: :D

    UPDATE folks.

    I tried the same connection methods through my DVD's scart output using the AVIA 100 TVL resolution pattern and the Scart to plasma RGBs method is much better.

    This takes the Plasma and the lead out of the equation.

    It's the Nokia box, are the signals not sufficient or maybe the JS technology box is amplifying the signals and that's why the picture is better.

    Maybe Dr Sim could explain what's happening?
     
  15. Jackass

    Jackass
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    Another update.

    I compared the two inputs with the Nokia and the RGB input on the plasma had its convergence set to big and was overscanning by a fare bit.
    I think this was causing the artifacts i was seeing in the background.

    After aligning the H and V size and position to the same as the SVHS input (which is a bloody hastle pulling leads in and out)
    the picture is now great.

    Neil,

    Do you think a SCART to Componant converter would be better still?
     
  16. NeilMcRae

    NeilMcRae
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    Perhaps, but I'd look at alternative tv box...

    Neil.
     
  17. MAW

    MAW
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    RGB and component are close electrically, and quality wise. The conversion is pretty lossless apparently. Differences should be small, it might depend on internal electronics inthe screen. It's quite an expensive experiment.

    Don't know why I can't spell in this thread, having to edit each post, and still missing them. I'll have a drink and try again!

    Another edit. It'd be cheaper to ask around here for a STB known to work well with the screen than play with a £150 converter box, as Neil says.
     
  18. Jackass

    Jackass
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    Okay thanks guys for your input.
     
  19. Joe Fernand

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    Hello all

    MAW:
    Every piece of Consumer kit that has a SCART socket and the option to output RGB that I have used outputs RGB+Composite sync.

    Many of these devices output these signals at voltages that are below or just on the threshold of what many plasma display input circuits require to achieve a stable sync.

    Johns series of boxes 'amplify' the signals to a level that the plasma displays generally seem happy to sync up to - on the odd occasion when we have come across a particularly unruly set top box the good Dr has worked with our customers to 'adapt' one of his units to optimise the signal from the offending set top box.

    Jackass:
    John's RGB2VGA converter outperforms the RGB2YUV converter; only marginally but its still the best option.

    Also just a thought - from your descriptions of your tests it appears your FTA box is outputting RGB and S-Video at the same time; I would have expected the S-Video output to have been switched off if your box was actually outputting RGB (I've not had much of a play with the Nokia box so may well be wrong on this one).

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  20. MAW

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    Joe, thanks for setting me straight on this one. I've had san interesting time with the s-video issue and my s-vhs recorder. With the box set to RGB (A Pace 2000) The video set to S-vid in, I get a picture on my CRT, a reasonable one, from the video. Not on the big screen though, in my case a projector. (making up my mind about adding plasma) The colours are not absent, but are 'washed out' Looks like a sepia tinted photo. Setting the STB to comosite cures that, and setting the video to composite also give as good a picture as you could expect. It's only composite after all. Thye projector is recieving a composite signal,badly split up, via it's s-vid port and doing it's best. So, does the nokia box actually output s-video at all? Just checked, it makes no mention of it in the spec, it says RGB and CVBS. Nokia speak for composite. How did this subject get so confusing? I think I know what my system is doing, but what about Jackass?
     
  21. Jackass

    Jackass
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    Guys,

    The Nokia outputs RGB c/w composite sync through it's only output, a scart connector.
    There are no menus to change this so it does not output S-Video.
    I guess it also outputs composite at the same time.

    At present i'm using the RGB c/w composite sync output to the Plasma's same inputs.

    Joe, have you been comparing the JS boxes on the 42" Panny or the Pioneer units and did you ever hear back from Panasonic regarding the update to solve the flicker issue that some see with the 5 series?

    I'm now thinking on upgrading my Wharfedale 750s DVD player.(great long time serving player)

    The Philips 963 sa has been getting good reviews lately but connectivity will be complicated. :confused:
    ( I plan to use the Progressive component outputs to the Panny, My sources are Nokia 221T box, DVD player and HTPC. )
     
  22. MAW

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    Left my brain in a safe place this W/E, sorry! I don't use a rgb-svid box, am considering whether it'll add anything significant to my system. Running out of connections, like you.

    Keene make a scart distibutor with remote control, RGB compliant. That might enable rgb from all inputs to use the component/RGB inputs, leaving VGA for the HTPC. I use a vga switch box for RGB/VGA converter and PC. Clunky but functional.
     

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