Surround speakers upgrade???

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Hi all.
I'm after some advice with upgrading my 5.1 speakers. I currently have Tannoy eclipse two front speakers

Tannoy | Product | ECLIPSE TWO

A tannoy eclipse 2 centre

Tannoy Eclipse Centre (Black)

Tannoy TFX rears and sub

Tannoy | Product | TFX 5.1

My avr is a marantz nr1711 and I'm considering the following speaker packages:-
Monitor audio Mass or
Q Acoustics 3010i

I'm just wondering if anyone has any experience with the above, which is the better of the two and is there a better alternative?. Also are they much of an improvement of what I already have? Its solely for watching movies as part of a 5.1.2 atmos setup in a small room 16.5ft x 10.7ft.

I'm not going to lie, I'm not that clued up or sure what I'm looking for when it comes to speakers. Thanks for your help
Gaz
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Have just also discovered the wharfdale dx2 to throw in the mix. Maybe a contender?
As its a small room, I don't need anything to intrusive.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Why you changing? Want smaller size? Then you have to buy stands or wall mount them (Mass/DX2). I wouldn´t think those as upgrade though.

If you looking upgrade and want compact size consider something like Q Acoustics Concept 20 & Centre. These were lot more expensive back in the days and could keep up with 500£ speakers in some areas. Gloss finish and very beefy cabinet construction. Stands are needed!



You could keep the TFX speakers surrounds for now, but i would upgrade the subwoofer to something better quality one. Depending of your budget and other requirements, check here:
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
To be fair, the tannoy speakers were all I could afford at the time being the cheapest of the cheap(The fronts were £99 for the pair from RS). They've served me well till now but I've always found them lacking clarity.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
To be fair, the tannoy speakers were all I could afford at the time being the cheapest of the cheap(The fronts were £99 for the pair from RS). They've served me well till now but I've always found them lacking clarity.

Have you tried turning Audussey Dynamic EQ Off and also the Mult EQ Off (Reference as default)? The first one isn´t prefered by everyone and can mudden the sound in some cases people feel. The Mult EQ correction doesn´t really do anything usefull what i have seen, it`s the weakest version of Audussey so i would certainly try it Off to see does the system sound better! Report back if you do some testing.

 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Have you tried turning Audussey Dynamic EQ Off and also the Mult EQ Off (Reference as default)? The first one isn´t prefered by everyone and can mudden the sound in some cases people feel. The Mult EQ correction doesn´t really do anything usefull what i have seen, it`s the weakest version of Audussey so i would certainly try it Off to see does the system sound better! Report back if you do some testing.


Cheers mate, I've actually tried with these and although better off, I still feel they're lacking.
I listen at fairly low levels due to the size of the room so maybe the fronts are a little too big?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Cheers mate, I've actually tried with these and although better off, I still feel they're lacking.
I listen at fairly low levels due to the size of the room so maybe the fronts are a little too big?

Don`t know anything about your room.. But you could always try to push them further from walls (towers) which can make noticeable difference and make sure the center channel is not too low / inside cabinet. Also make sure you have changed the crossover settings after running Audussey. They shouldn´t be set under 80hz. You can raise the figures you got, but not preferably lower them. For the front three 80-100hz and for the tiny surrounds probably ~120-150hz. Subwoofer set to LFE mode, not LFE+Main. Speaker size small all..
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Don`t know anything about your room.. But you could always try to push them further from walls (towers) which can make noticeable difference and make sure the center channel is not too low / inside cabinet. Also make sure you have changed the crossover settings after running Audussey. They shouldn´t be set under 80hz. You can raise the figures you got, but not preferably lower them. For the front three 80-100hz and for the tiny surrounds probably ~120-150hz. Subwoofer set to LFE mode, not LFE+Main. Speaker size small all..
I'll have a play, thanks for the suggestions.

As my speakers were so cheap I'm assuming I can only get so much out of them hence why I'm thinking of upgrading. Wanting to spend max £600 to be honest.
I'm gonna look at the concept 20's you recommended. Are the 3010i speakers no good?

Gaz
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'll have a play, thanks for the suggestions.

As my speakers were so cheap I'm assuming I can only get so much out of them hence why I'm thinking of upgrading. Wanting to spend max £600 to be honest.
I'm gonna look at the concept 20's you recommended. Are the 3010i speakers no good?

Gaz

Fine cheap speakers, but for little bit more the Concept would make more sense for long term. I had the 2010i & 2000Ci and i always regret not going for larger ones. Concept 20s with good quality subwoofer should sound great, they are suprisingly popular in US too and people there also love them! If you are seriously intrested about them then you could order them both 20&Centre from Amazon which to my knowledge offers return option if for some reason you wouldn´t like them. You do need stands too (600mm - check top plate size). Fisual Dynami Duo stands are cheap, but pick the ones that also look good.
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Thanks @Gasp3621 for all your help.
After some research I think I'm gonna go for the concept 20 centre and fronts like you suggested.
I'm not that clued up to be honest regarding speaker sensitivity and impedance.
As my avr is a slimline with 90w per channel will these speakers be ok? Sorry, I don't fully understand it all so not sure what to look for.
Thanks again,
Gaz
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks @Gasp3621 for all your help.
After some research I think I'm gonna go for the concept 20 centre and fronts like you suggested.
I'm not that clued up to be honest regarding speaker sensitivity and impedance.
As my avr is a slimline with 90w per channel will these speakers be ok? Sorry, I don't fully understand it all so not sure what to look for.
Thanks again,
Gaz

The power rating is actually less than that, but yeah don´t worry it will drive them fine in typical living room. Notice i just mentioned the Concepts because you listed the QA 3000i so i thought the Concept would be better purchase for little bit more with gorgeous finish which won´t look cheap either!

I assume you have read these already, while the two latter are with floorstanders still good reading:




 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
The power rating is actually less than that, but yeah don´t worry it will drive them fine in typical living room. Notice i just mentioned the Concepts because you listed the QA 3000i so i thought the Concept would be better purchase for little bit more with gorgeous finish which won´t look cheap either!

I assume you have read these already, while the two latter are with floorstanders still good reading:




Thanks again mate, I'll have a read of these.

Cheers
Gaz
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
The power rating is actually less than that, but yeah don´t worry it will drive them fine in typical living room. Notice i just mentioned the Concepts because you listed the QA 3000i so i thought the Concept would be better purchase for little bit more with gorgeous finish which won´t look cheap either!

I assume you have read these already, while the two latter are with floorstanders still good reading:




I'm surprised the power rating is less @75w. My amp is a slimline which is therefore of lower power and at 90w per channel. I wouldn't have thought there's many avrs with a lower power rating than that?
My rooms veery small so I doubt I'll be pushing them anyway.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'm surprised the power rating is less @75w. My amp is a slimline which is therefore of lower power and at 90w per channel. I wouldn't have thought there's many avrs with a lower power rating than that?
My rooms veery small so I doubt I'll be pushing them anyway.

The power output figure you should be looking/comparing to others with NR1711 is the bolded one. The 90w is with 1channel and with high 1% distortion. The slim line receiver is about half less powerfull than your typical full sized receiver like Denon X2700H (599£). But as i said don´t worry about it. For normal use in small room with subwoofer taking care the heavy load you will be just fine! If you order the speakers then use Amazon cause of the return option. Just to be on the safe side.



Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive)70 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 1% 1ch Drive)90 W
Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.05% 2ch Drive)
icon_unavailable.png
Power Output (8 ohm, 20 Hz - 20 kHz, 0.08% 2ch Drive)50 W
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
@Gasp3621 pulled the trigger today and should receive Friday.
I'm still unsure if I want stands or wall brackets....I'm sure I think too much into things and make decisions seem harder than they should be!:rotfl:

I'll let you know how I get on 👍
Gaz
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Fine cheap speakers, but for little bit more the Concept would make more sense for long term. I had the 2010i & 2000Ci and i always regret not going for larger ones. Concept 20s with good quality subwoofer should sound great, they are suprisingly popular in US too and people there also love them! If you are seriously intrested about them then you could order them both 20&Centre from Amazon which to my knowledge offers return option if for some reason you wouldn´t like them. You do need stands too (600mm - check top plate size). Fisual Dynami Duo stands are cheap, but pick the ones that also look good.
I'm looking at the fisula duo as I'm at my budget for the min but I just wanna check they are the right size? The speakers are 282 x 170 but the stand plate is 200 x 164 (d x w).
I can't find anywhere that gives the feet positions.
Should these be ok?
Gaz
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'm looking at the fisula duo as I'm at my budget for the min but I just wanna check they are the right size? The speakers are 282 x 170 but the stand plate is 200 x 164 (d x w).
I can't find anywhere that gives the feet positions.
Should these be ok?
Gaz

Fisual Dynami Duo 600mm should be fine looking the top plate size vs speaker size! I don´t think QA Concept 20 comes with any feets like the newer QA 3000i speakers. And they would be removed anyway..
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Thanks again. I've just been told my whole order is delayed as my amp isn't in stock (The NR1711 I mentioned earlier) . So I'll be left with some new lone speaker stands for a week or so lol.
Anyway in the meantime I'm gonna look at my current setup as I've never been 100 percent sure about my rears placement. I'm a little restricted to be honest but is there a better way to place my rears?
Cheers
Gaz
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks again. I've just been told my whole order is delayed as my amp isn't in stock (The NR1711 I mentioned earlier) . So I'll be left with some new lone speaker stands for a week or so lol.
Anyway in the meantime I'm gonna look at my current setup as I've never been 100 percent sure about my rears placement. I'm a little restricted to be honest but is there a better way to place my rears?
Cheers
Gaz

This is tricky. If you aren´t going with Atmos then they should be raised lot higher cause they are so close to listener(s) or old school trick pointing them upwards to ceiling so the effects would use the rear wall and ceiling to "bounce" and make them less easier to locate. Kinda more dispersed soundfield. I haven´t tried that trick, but i have read from people who has done it and it should work great! I think one known speaker/subwoofer designer still uses it to this date. Clearly it won´t suit for 5.1.x systems.
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
This is tricky. If you aren´t going with Atmos then they should be raised lot higher cause they are so close to listener(s) or old school trick pointing them upwards to ceiling so the effects would use the rear wall and ceiling to "bounce" and make them less easier to locate. Kinda more dispersed soundfield. I haven´t tried that trick, but i have read from people who has done it and it should work great! I think one known speaker/subwoofer designer still uses it to this date. Clearly it won´t suit for 5.1.x systems.
Yeah its a tough one ain't it. I've got atmos in ceiling speakers just in front of the seating position (just out of view on the photo) so I'm guessing I'm pretty stuck as is. Unless there's another trick I can try?
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
In other news.......I've managed to get my delivery tomorrow! After phoning around numerous av suppliers it seems there is a national shortage of newer model marantz gear due to congested docks because of covid/black Friday etc.
So I've managed to get the previous model (nr1710) which is basically the same minus 8k support......which I'm unlikely to adopt for a few years anyway.
So new AVR and speakers due tomorrow.
Happy days!!!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
In other news.......I've managed to get my delivery tomorrow! After phoning around numerous av suppliers it seems there is a national shortage of newer model marantz gear due to congested docks because of covid/black Friday etc.
So I've managed to get the previous model (nr1710) which is basically the same minus 8k support......which I'm unlikely to adopt for a few years anyway.
So new AVR and speakers due tomorrow.
Happy days!!!

Nice, but did you get discount? 😱

There is not much you can then with the surrounds as you don´t want to raise them really. Play with the angles where the speakers are shooting.
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
Nice, but did you get discount? 😱

There is not much you can then with the surrounds as you don´t want to raise them really. Play with the angles where the speakers are shooting.

After 2 days playing I'm absolutely blown away! Not only is the front more detailed and controlled... it seems to have somehow enhanced the whole setup. The fronts,surrounds, and ceiling speakers seem to somehow 'gel' better and sound complete.
I'm well happy.

Thanks @Gasp3621 for taking the time out to help me out, really appreciate it.
 

Gazaman

Well-known Member
One more question @Gasp3621 if you don't mind.
Do you think a pair of Wharfdale dx2 speakers are at all an upgrade on my current Tannoy tfx ones for use as rears? These can be had for less than £100 now but not sure if they'll offer me anything more than I already have.

Cheers
Gaz
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
One more question @Gasp3621 if you don't mind.
Do you think a pair of Wharfdale dx2 speakers are at all an upgrade on my current Tannoy tfx ones for use as rears? These can be had for less than £100 now but not sure if they'll offer me anything more than I already have.

Cheers
Gaz

Well they should sound little different, but better that is tough to know without hearing both. If you are happy how the Tannoys sound then keep them. The placement is not ideal so i would be bit skeptical throwing money in to those.
 

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