Surround sound with normal TV

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Napier, Feb 28, 2005.

  1. Napier

    Napier
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    Dear All,

    Some of you may remember me with issue setting up my new fancy 3805 and 3910 setup :) ... I now have all my speakers in place, a lovely new REL stata sub, 5.1 aelite speaker package. However I have a small problem in a configuration that hopefully you will all be able to help me with.

    I had issues gaining sound and setting up my speakers and now they are working perfectly. However they only come alive when watching DVD's. When watching normal TV or listening to a CD I can only get sound out of the front two floorstanding speakers. The more I read on here the more I think that it should be possible to configure it up to have normal TV coming out of all speakers. Not in real surround sound mode whereby rear speakers kick in for rear affects but more like the analogue mode that I currently have with the front two but now out of all speakers.

    Is there anyway to get the sound from normal TV and cd's out of all my speakers and my sub? I want to utilise them as much as possible as they are sooooooo nice!

    For those that remember my posts: The volume issue is all sorted now too, seems that auto setup dulled down the output as I only had two speakers, now if I turn the volume to -20 I think my house would fall down! :D :D

    I am so in love with my new system, girlfriend has been very bored recently :smashin:

    Please help if you can.

    Napier
     
  2. Napier

    Napier
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    Anyone any ideas?
     
  3. fudge

    fudge
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    If your input (TV or CD) is only in stereo you should still be able to output to all speakers by selectiing DTS NEO 5.1 or Prologic 11 on your amp. This doesn't provide true surroiund sound but is as good as you're likely to get from TV signals.

    Is your TV input from the TV itself or a digibox or sky box? If it's the latter do they have a digital co-ax or optical connection which may give better results. Same with the CD. If it has a digital output use it.

    If none of these have you checked the polarity of all speakers is OK and checked all connections are OK.
     
  4. Napier

    Napier
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    I have not checked to see if I could change the setting to any other mode yet now I have all my speakers in place. I am going to do this as soon as I get home. However are you saying it is possible to have sound coming out of all speakers?

    I currently have the speakers setup perfectly through the amp for DVD's.

    I have phono from the SKY + to the amp and digital optical from the DVD/CD player (Denon 3910) to the amp.

    Hopefully when I get home I will be able to have use of all my speakers all the time I can't wait, certainly will be better than just through the front two stereo speakers. Can't wait to use my sub with footy matches!

    Will have to see, can you just confirm that it should work and I will make sure it does if this is the case when I get home tonight and will update all.

    Napier
     
  5. Brian P

    Brian P
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    I use optical out from SKY+ with my amp set to Prologic II Movies and get pseudo surround sound from all speakers. Of course with Sky Movies you do get some transmissions in Dolby 5.1 surround sound, my amp detects this automatically and switches to 5.1 surround sound. Prologic II seems to be quite clever and produces an acceptable result. There is also a PLII Music setting for use with stereo music sources.
     
  6. Napier

    Napier
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    Currently I have the TV out mode running the sky+ and it only comes out of the floorstanding front two speakers. I have not tried changing the cinema mode /sound mode now I have my surround speakers and amp.

    So all I want really when watching TV is to have the sound to come out of all speakers and sub. I am not too worried if that is "surround sound" or not just the same as what I get out of the front two would be great plus to utilise the sub too.

    I am going to have a play tonight but does anyone know what button you press on the Denon 3805 to change from analogue two front speaker mode to all speakers?

    Napier
     
  7. fudge

    fudge
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    Napier, like I said in my first post and as re-iterated by Brian P, you just need to set your amp to Pro-Logic11 or DTS Neo (the DTS equivalent of PL11). Both will create surround sound (including music) from a stereo source. It depends what's on the original source as to how much comes out of the rear speakers but it'll be OK.

    I'm not familiar with that model but all Denon's will have that function and certainly one of that quality will. Check your manual if you're not sure how to set it, but it's usually a key on the remote that you can press repeatedly to scroll to different settings. Hope this helps.

    If there's still no rear sound I would suspect a fault somewhere.
     
  8. tpc3416

    tpc3416
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    I have the 3805. The best setting for decoding stereo tv is DTS Neo 6.1 cinema. The high's are much better than 5 channel stereo or Pro Logic II cinema (which is the "x" factor game-cinema-music). You can access it on the main unit hitting the button "standard" until is reads DTS Neo 6, then "surround perimeter" choosing "cinema" over music or game. I found I needed to boost the subwoofer output on the 3805 to +6 and set the crossover on the sub to 60Hz for best sound. Depends on your sub.
     
  9. jimcarney

    jimcarney
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    (I have phono from the SKY + to the amp and digital optical from the DVD/CD player (Denon 3910) to the amp.) try using coax from the DVD, & optical from Sky+ thats they way mine is set up with a Denon A11SR ,you will get 5.1 from both ,I also so have the Audio outlets from the TV connected to the Amp so I can have better sound from RTE & the other Irish TV channels ........Jim
    p.s To be able to use just the TV sound you need to turn off your Sky+ box!
     
  10. Napier

    Napier
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    Guys please help because I still can't get all my speakers to work on sky+ or normal tv or CD's.

    The deal is I have:

    Denon 3805
    Denon 3910
    Aelite speakers = 2 floorstanders + two rear aelite 2's + 1 centre aelite speaker + REL sub

    Now I am not sure if this qualifies for a 5.1 system but I think it does. The rear surround speakers are plugged into surround speakers both in section "A". There is also a section for rear surrounds called B. I also have some ports for rear back surround speakers but dont have these yet.

    I think because I dont have these rear back speakers I dont get the options in my menus to configure or choose what surround parameters I want with my normal sky + viewing or CD music. I have it showing ext.in for CD music and also for TV. I use the modes TV or CD for watching tv. However for listening to CD's I have it on the DVD setting.

    I don't know what I am doing wrong, I have gone through every menu possible and it just wont let me have any 5.1 for my TV sounds.

    I only have phono red and white cables from sky+ to amp do I have to wait for a digital cable install before I will get these options? I noticed that when I plug in the phono to other ports below I can get the tv sound out of the centre speaker, if I plug it in again further down one more I can get the sound just out of the rears... so if maybe I had a optical cable from sky and setup sky+ to be optical output then it should be able to process the sounds to all channels. Maybe... this is me guessing can someone please confirm if I am right or if I have done something wrong in my current setup and I should be able to make it work as it is.

    Thanx everyone.

    Napier
     
  11. fudge

    fudge
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    Your speakers are fine for 5.1 sound. Have you definitely selected speaker set A in the menu set up (you should have a choice in the speaker configuration menu somewhere)?

    Are you playing CD's in a DVD or a CD player. If it's the latter then you must have got your phono connections wrong on the back of the amp because if they were in the correct inputs (CD in this case) you wouldn't hear anything if you selected DVD. If it's the former it will be right. Also I don't know how you can select CD and get sound for your TV. Again it indicates you may have your audio cables in the wrong inputs on the back of the amp.

    I would double check that all your audio connections go to the right input. By using digital co-ax or optical it won't make much difference to the sound you hear from the rear speakers when using PL11 or DTS Neo - they are pseudo effects from a stereo source so your red and white cables will provide this, as long as they are connected properly.
     
  12. Napier

    Napier
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    The auto setup did the speaker setup however I went in there and checked and it showed all speakers as A. However with the two phono leads I can only get sounds from my sky + if I plug them both into the ports they are in. They are in the red and white ports below phono (not in the phono section they are in a lower bunch). Now there are three to four sets of these red and white sockets in this grouping. The first gives me front and left speakers, next one down gives me centre, next one rear and so on. I have no rear back surround so when plugged in there no sound. I have tried every config there is on the unit however I cannot select any surround sound mode for when in TV.ext in

    I can change to CD.ext in and still get sound from the sky + but again I cannot choose which sound mode. I purely get the sound out of the front two speakers due to being plugged into these red and white ports at the back.

    I am confused as to whether I need a digital cable to be able to do this for all speakers or whether it will work just on red and white cables.????

    anyone able to help me?

    Napier
     
  13. Napier

    Napier
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    p.s. CD's and DVD's are played out of the same player the Denon 3910 and this is not even on when viewing normal TV. The sky + box is plugged into the amp so sounds come directly from that and not the DVD player so the DVD/CD player is not in the equation.

    Napier
     
  14. rondun

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    Hi Napier -

    Sounds like you're still having a bit of bother getting your system set up properly. I really would suggest that you get somebody from the shop help you with this, after all you have spent a significant amount of money on some good kit.

    By what you are saying it appears you're trying to use the 6ch input plugs for your sky+. Thats not where you should be plugging it in - have you tried the tv or dvb sockets - they should give you surround with tv via prologic II or dts Neo as previously stated
     
  15. Napier

    Napier
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    Maybe I am just plugging these two red and white leads in the wrong place. I have them plugged into the left hand side ports of the amp. I will try and get a pic off Denon website after lunch if you could check back and help me maybe this afternoon that would be great. In calling the shop they tend to be too busy to help and I feel like a dumb ass going back every two seconds for help.

    Its almost perfect just needs a little nudge and will be complete :)

    Will post again at 2pm ish

    Thanx

    Napier
     
  16. fudge

    fudge
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    Blimey, I've had a look at the connections on the Denon website and if this is your first a/v receiver no wonder you're confused - there's connections for everything (beginning to get jealous now!!!).

    Any way, your analogue cables (red and white) should go into one of the connections in the second row from the left. The first row is mainly for turntables, tape players and auxillary equipment.

    On the second row (marked AUDIO at the top) connect your DVD to the top terminals (marked DVD), your sky box to the terminals marked TV and you VCR to the terminals marked VCR1, in the 'IN' section. At the bottom are two sets of VCR terminals for recording from the amp (marked 'OUT'). If your VCR (if you have one) is connected to the TV by scart the you won't need these - they are only for recording from the amp.

    These are analogue connections and provided you select PL11 or DTSNeo on the sound source you should get surround sound. Remember, the terminals on the back of the amp in a section marked 'IN' are for sound coming FROM your source (DVD, Sky box, etc.). Those marked 'OUT' is sound going from your amp to another component (DVD recorder for example).

    You have a good choice of digital inputs and outputs so if you want to record to DVD you're probably better off using them, but they are not required to provide the sound you want.

    However, as you've invested in a top-end piece of kit it would be well worthy spending some money on decent digital cables. If not, use good quality analogue cables, not the rubbish that probably came with the amp.
     
  17. Napier

    Napier
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    Fudge,

    I agree, I understand what you have written and here is a pic of the amp at the rear. It is a gorgeous bit of kit!

    As you can see from the pic this is the ports at the back of the Denon that I was referring to. I have my sky+ plugged in to the very left hand set of ports. It is in "Signal End" Section far left and down in a red and white ports labelled FR + FL. Now this to me signifies as to why the sound is only coming out of front left and front right main speaker. If I move the cable down and plug it in to the one below I get sound from centre speaker and so on.

    So you are saying I should take that cable out and plug it in to "audio in" section for TV?

    I don't have any VCR so we don't need to be concerned with that.

    What is this section signal end or whatever it says for then?

    As you say there are so many connections and the manual is not up to much, or at least it isn't when you plug your cables in wrong and then nothing works as you think it should from the way you interperate the manual that is. The manual is probably fine :suicide:

    Hang on just took a closer look at the pic as I am not home at the moment and it actually says signal GND which no doubt stands for signal grounding / earthing. Above I am refering to the ports below this "signal GND" label.

    Any help is very much appreciated :D

    Napier
     

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  18. Eddy Boy

    Eddy Boy
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    You need to reconnect your SKY to DBS or TV has you had it. Then under the front flap press the button marked STANDARD.
     
  19. Napier

    Napier
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    what does standard do?

    This is getting more complicated now :D

    I have found a section in the manual which goes through speaker setup and also changing modes for sound with normal TV (non DVD feeds)..... do I press standard and then get the modes of operation like DPII and DD?

    Napier
     
  20. fudge

    fudge
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    "So you are saying I should take that cable out and plug it in to "audio in" section for TV?"

    Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You are connecting audio devices, not the video or anything else.

    You can connect the Sky box to DBS or TV and then on the remote you select the TV/DBS mode. Once that is selected you can choose any sound mode you like. I'm not familiar with that model and the remote looks all singing all dancing so you'll have to experiment, but somewhere on it will be the facility to select Dolby Prologic, Prologic11, DTS Neo etc. Whatever is playing on TV or Sky should then be heard through your speakers. If you select a stereo mode you'll only hear the front speakers but PL11 etc will be heard through them all.

    Do the same with your DVD.

    I don't know what 'Standard' does but it probably selects certain functions and others would only be available in an enhanced mode.

    In practice it doesn't matter which terminals you connect your TV and DVD too as long as they are in the Audio section. Whichever terminal you connect to you must press that same device on the remote to select it. So if you connect your DVD to the terminals marked VCR1 you would select VCR1 on your remote. However this only complicates it if you have lots of devices so best to keep the right device with the right terminals.

    As I said ealier, you'll getter better sound from you DVD with digital connections but get yourself running with analogue first and then upgrade.
     
  21. rondun

    rondun
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    Napier -the signal GND just refers to the clamp at the top of the amp - its for a ground cable when connecting a turntable for example.

    The section you connected into was EXT IN i believe, which is for external equipment with their own decoders which bypasses the denons surround circuits and outputs directly to the individual speakers - thus nothing from surround speakers.

    i think you said you were using digital optical for the dvd so leave that alone, but if you do as fudge and eddy boy say for the sky+ you should be laughing
     
  22. Napier

    Napier
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    I can't wait to get home now, tell me guys how much better is it with surround speakers for CD music, do you prefer it in pure 2 channel mode just through your front two speakers or do you always have it on surround?

    In using just the output from sky+ for sound is the sub active given that I have connected it up right and chosen one of the options like DPII etc?

    Thanx for all your help, I will let you know how I get on when I am home tomorrow .... really excited now as its awesome with DVD's!!!! Just need a detached house now :D :D :D

    Thanx again!!!!!!!

    Napier
     
  23. rondun

    rondun
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    ok!
    but don't get too excited, remember the sound from sky+ will be not be as good as your dvd player, and you may have to adjust your settings for the sub - read earlier posts.
    replacing the phono cable from your sky+ with digital cable should give a better result - but just get it working properly first though.
     
  24. fudge

    fudge
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    There's no right and wrong for listening modes. Experiment and use whichever you like the best.

    Personally, I find PL11 music mode is best on my Yamaha because the direct stereo is a bit weak. But on yours you may prefer it on stereo. Try them all!

    Like Rondun says, your sub will be working OK but you may need to adjust it.

    Don't expect to get an amp of this quality and performance set up perfectly first time. Half the fun is tweaking the settings until you've driven everybody else in the house doo-lally.

    Happy listening.
     
  25. Napier

    Napier
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    I have tried to plug in the red and white cables from sky+ to every port in the audio in section and I don't get any sound at all. I understand now the standard button and if you press it several times you can scroll through DPII and Dolby etc but nothing for TV.ext in.

    I am so confused as to why I have no sound now.

    Why is this, I have resetup the aduio on the amp with auto setup and nothing. The only way I can get sound from the sky+ is from where I had it plugged in initially.

    This is very frustrating, any idea where I am going wrong? Do I have to configure something to get the audio in section to work?

    Napier
     
  26. rondun

    rondun
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    press analog instead of ext in, see if that works
     
  27. fudge

    fudge
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    Are you sure the cables from the Sky+ are OK? Try another set if you can. Or is the Sky+ faulty. Were you using the audio outs from this before you had the new amp and if so were they working OK? If you were only connecting to your TV by scarts it may be the Sky+ audio outs have been faulty for some time.

    Try using the same cables to connect the DVD. If you get sound it shows the cables are OK and the fault must be in the Sky box.
     
  28. rondun

    rondun
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    Think its something to do with the settings fudge, but i don't own a 3805 (although looking to get one or a 2805 :) ) so am only of limited help
     
  29. fudge

    fudge
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    Yes, I didn't read Napiers comments properly!!

    Sounds like it is the settings somewhere but like rondun I don't know this model so can't help much more.

    Have you tried Denon support?
     
  30. fudge

    fudge
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    On reflection I think it would be worth swapping devices. Using the same cables that connect the Sky+, take them out of this box and connect to your DVD. Remove the digital cable from the DVD and see if surround sound is heard when you play a DVD. Leave the audio cables in the TV or DBS connection on the amp and select that device on your remote. You should hear the DVD OK.

    If you get sound from the rear speakers now, then the cables and the amp settings are OK, so it could be a faulty Sky box (can you change the audio output on that box and if so have you got it set right?).

    If you still don't get rear sound then I would suspect either a fault with the amp or you're still not setting it up correctly. Make sure you select the TV or DBS on the remote BEFORE you change the sound field (or use whatever controls are on the front of the amp).
     

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