Suppose I want a high-def display, but can't afford a 50" plasma....

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by NicolasB, May 26, 2004.

  1. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    As the subject line says, suppose I want a genuinely high-definition display, but a 50" plasma screen is a little too expensive: what are the options?

    Of course there are various devices that can accept an HD input signal. But that doesn't mean they're capable of actually displaying an HD picture! What's needed is a device capable of displaying 1920x1080 individually resolvable pixels. But I suspect that's not going to happen (or at least not for less money than a 50" plasma :) ). So then we're looking at a device capable of displaying 1280x720 individually resolvable pixels.

    There are certainly small PC monitors capable of this, but PC monitors that have a 16:9 aspect ratio are often annoyingly expensive, and the picture quality may not be all that good, especially for fast-moving video. (And in any case if I wanted to know about that I'd probably have to post this in a different group).

    The ability of Loewe TVs to display 1024x576 is interesting, but still falls short of 720p, and may be a bit flickery anyway.

    What about RPTV systems? Are there any nice RPTVs that display a true HD picture, look as good as a 50" plasma (albeit maybe with a slightly smaller screen) and cost a bit less?

    Or should I head off to one of the projector forums? :)
     
  2. runningback

    runningback
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    LCD rear projection Tv's
    definetly the Sony KF-60SX300
    1386x788 Pixel
    http://www.electricwarehouse.co.uk/mainframe.php?prod=6579&cat=20&subcat=46&manu=5&tk=pr

    can do it, but don't ask me about the picture quality.
    basically LCD RPTV's over 50'' should all have at least 1280*720 Pixels.


    One known issue is the historically poor black-level performance.The concept suffers from unimpressive black-level reproduction. LCD works by transmitting light through the chip, much like a photographic slide, so some light always gets through and makes for less than ideal blacks.
     
  3. supersonic87

    supersonic87
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    don't the new JVC DIST (P37/38/40 and D40) sets do that (although IIRC they don't display 720p :suicide: )

    Rich
     
  4. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    It's proven very difficult to find out what resolution allegedly high-def JVC TVs are actually displaying. As I said above, the fact that a TV can accept a high-def input signal doesn't mean that the picture they end up displaying on the screen is the same resolution. There may well be some internal down-scaling. But good luck trying to find out whether is or not. :mad:

    If anybody would like to recommend a particular RPTV model as having good image quality and a genuinely HD picture, I'm all ears. :)
     
  5. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    DILA seems your best be
     
  6. bongpig

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    yep, I can confirm that my samsung 3LCD 43" rptv has a native res of 1280x768.
    But, as runningback stated, LCD rptv's have other issues.
     
  7. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Erm... pardon? :)
     
  8. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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  9. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Well, that's all very well, but if I can't afford a 50" plasma, I don't know that I fancy my chances of being able to afford one of those either. :)

    Still, one more thing to bear in mind.

    I guess even if I have more questions I'd better not ask them in this forum! :rolleyes:
     
  10. bongpig

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    Nicolas,

    Ive mentioned the samsung LCD based rptvs. They are HD, as are the Sony Wega LCD rptvs. My 43" samsung cost £1500. You can get a Sony for as little as £1100. All of them have a verticle resolution of 768.

    Also, Sagem have just released a 50" DLP for around £2500 which is supposed to be pretty good.

    What is your budget exactly?
     
  11. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    Sim 2 Grandview are good but very pricey!
    I think there are a few DLP RPTV about Thomson have 50" with 1280x720 DMD matrix and 125Hz PS
     
  12. cerebros

    cerebros
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    GOing by visible picture lines..

    With 1080i, where you're drawing 540 lines every 1/50 (or 1/60) of a second (becuase we're interlaced), you need a horizontal draw rate of 27 kHz (32.4 kHz), wheares with 720p where you're drawing the full 720 lines per second it's 36 kHz (43.2 kHz).

    I'm guessing it costs more to produce a CRT TV that can cope with the higher draw rate of 720p than it is for 1080i...
     
  13. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Nic

    new proj is £5k, there are many 'enthusiast' who have used these for a while now and they come up secondhand, this is why I suggested them, they do the resolution you are after, else look for the little brother of DILA, LCD (projector, panel or RPTV).
     
  14. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    I don't know. :)

    At the moment I don't know enough to be able to say "I want to get something for £5K" or whatever - I'm barely starting to figure out what sort of picture one can get for what sort of price. There's a reasonably good chance I'll be wanting to buy some sort of new display device in the next 6 months or so, but as yet I really don't know whether it'll simply be a new TV, or something fancier - I don't know how much better than a regular TV the picture can be at any given price level.

    All I'm trying to do at the moment is get a slightly clearer idea of what sort of thing is possible, and what the market is like.

    For instance, if I were thinking of buying a plasma, I could say: "You can get a very nice 42" SD plasma for a little over £2K, but it will only be 480 lines. If you want to display a PAL image without downscaling, and you want a display with square pixels, it'd have to be a 50" screen".

    Bearing this in mind, I could then go and audition Pansonic, Pioneer and maybe Toshiba or Hitachi plasmas, and that would give me a fairly clear idea of "as far as plasmas are concerned, this is a good indicator of what I can get for £2K, this is what I can get for £5K to £6K".

    But I really don't know enough about RPTVs (or projectors) to have any idea of what I ought to audition to determine what one can get for any given amount of money.



    Which particular model is that...?
     
  15. bongpig

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  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    The link I posted earlier, the 21 model is about £5k. Resolution and colours are amazing, contrast not brilliant (but everyone lies here anyway). There might have been an odd illumination issue with the one we used at the event2, G would remember. It is VERY bright as well, blackouts not needed (but recommended). It is the technogy I think has the most promise that is in the market place at the moment. There is something 'compelling' about it.
     
  17. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    We-ell, that depends, doesn't it? :)

    I've never entirely trusted the whole ALIS business - did we ever actually establish whether or not a 576-line picture is downscaled? And what does it do with 720p? (Okay, wrong forum for those questions too! :rolleyes: )
     
  18. bongpig

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    Nicolas,

    Im a little confused by your post. Why would a monitor capable of displaying 1024 lines 'downscale' a 576 line picture? Surely it would up-scale wouldnt it?
    Are you suggesting that the hitachis dont actually have 1024 lines? Now im confused! ;)

    At this point I would like to say, ive no experience with these screen so I dont know what you mean by not trusting ALIS.
     
  19. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    This really needs to be in the plasma forum, but very briefly:

    Panels such as this one are not capable of displaying 1024 distinct lines in a single image pass, only 512. So the output is actually interlaced - 512 lines, then the other 512 lines 1/60th of a second later. This means they do a good job of displaying a 60Hz 480i signal and can sort of do 1080i as well, with not much loss of vertical information.

    But there's considerable confusion as to how they handle a 576-line signal. Some people claim that 576 lines is deinteraced to 576p, scaled up to 1024p, then split into two fields, and displayed like that. Other people claim that 576i is actually downscaled to 512i and then displayed without any intermediate deinterlacing and reinterlacing.

    There's a similar question mark over 720p. Is it scaled to 1024p and then interlaced, or is it downscaled to 512 lines? Nobody seems to be sure.
     
  20. bongpig

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    and so ends todays lesson!
    thanks for clearing that up.

    So, getting back onto rptv's.
    Have you seen the Sony LCD,Samsung LCD & Sagem DLP sets?
     
  21. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    1024x1024 is alis screen idealy you want 1920x1024 IIRC as 1024x1024 is fine for a square image but not for video basically there is alot going on at the moment and very few people know exactly what it all means! Me included even a HD plasma will need to upscale a PAL image, NTSC video on an SD plasma is the closest you will get to 1:1 mapping without a PC. These new display devices are really showing the limits of DVD as high quality format, as somone who never really collected VHS the idea of replacing my 300+ DVD-s in 2-3 years nonsense! I watch 60-40 Broadcast/DVD at the moment so until Blu-ray is the norm and HiDef broadcast availble for regular programming i will stick with SD (But as my CRT is ageing a bit now! i feel it would be prudent to replace it with a more capable display [NOTE not Hi DEF] when the time comes)
     
  22. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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