Support From AVR

[IanHoll]

I've got a Denon X4700H which I've got configured with a Zappiti Reference & xBox X-Series via eArc. All is good & I'm getting the 120Fps 4K gaming performance via the HDMI 2.1 cable connected to the 8K out.

My question is: will my Denon AVR give my Zappiti Reference & x-Box support for IMAX Enhanced or DTS which my LG 65 G1 Evo doesn't support given my TV is connected to my AVR via the eArc & my media player & x-Box is connected to the AVR? If so is this done automatically or do I have to configure the Denon AVR?

Even though I've built a 5.1.4 Atmos home theatre, I'm let's just say a little ignorant when it comes to support from one piece of equipment to another and I don't fully understand how video and audio processing support works when one piece of equipment supports one technology and another doesn't.

I mean, the Denon X4700H supports pretty much everything. I've looked up on the Zappiti website but I've not seen any mention of IMAX Enhanced. I guess the another question is if Zappiti doesn't support IMAX Enhanced could they release a firmware update to give it support? But I guess licencing would be an issue.

Regards,

Ian

 

[dante01]

Look in the manial:

IMAX Enhanced (v p. 324)
This IMAX Enhanced product have met stringent performance
standards established by IMAX and DTS in order to create a consistent and higher bar for sound performance. DTS has developed a special method for reproducing an IMAX signature sound experience in the consumer’s home. This method combines a unique conversion process for IMAX theatrical audio mixes utilizing an enhanced DTS codec technology. The IMAX theatrical audio format with point source surround speakers closely matches the speaker configuration most consumers have in their homes today. Coupled with DTS audio technology, IMAX Enhanced audio products will ensure the best and most accurate audio reproduction over 5.1 or more speaker channels.

Page 147:

There are various settings that effect the DTS IMAX soundtracks. See page 186 and 187 in your manual:

The content would need to be encoded with the IMAX Enhanced elemenys. It is unlikely you'd get such content via your Zappitti media player. I'm not sure it a regular UHD disc rip would result in the IOMAX Enhanced elemens being ripped? THe IMAX soundtracks are basically DTS and DTS:X with knobs on. If the Zappitta can bitstream DTS:X and or DTS-HD Master Audio then I see no reason why you'd not get the IMAX Enhanced soundtrack if it was ripped and if you are using that media player to play the resulting diles? You'd need to rip such content from disc that are IMAX Enhanced. REgular disc players convey such soundtracks without those players being IMAX Enhanced. The AV receiver will read the audio as including yjr addditional IMAX Enhanced elements and use the IMAX Enhanced DTS codec if and when the AV receiver detects such audio. The player doesn't need to be IMAX Enhanced and doesn't require any special codecs to be able to output the IMAX Enhanced DTS soundtrack.

Your Atmos 5.1.4 setup would also work for DTS:X and IMAX DTS:X. AS I iterated already, IMAX DTS:X is basically not that much different to conventional DTS:X so that speaker layout and your setup wouldn't need to have anything changed to portray it.

 

[Htfanboy]

Connecting a device directly to the receiver does not mean you won't get dts as tv doesn't support it.
In fact this doesn't even apply as the tv itself is not involved in any capacity when it comes to the audio in this situation.

I play dts content on my receiver with my Nvidia shield connected to it.

 

[dante01]

AS mentioned, connect any source you wish to access DTS or IMAX DTS from directly to the AV receiver. LG TVs no longer support DTS so you cannot use ARC or eARC to pass DTS encoded audio through LG TVs.

 

[dante01]

If looking for discs that include an IMAX DTS soundtrack then you can find some of them listed here:

IMAX Enhanced UHD Blu-ray Movies | Next Generation Home Theater

 

[gibbsy]

If looking for discs that include an IMAX DTS soundtrack then you can find some of them listed here:

IMAX Enhanced UHD Blu-ray Movies | Next Generation Home Theater

Well that didn't take long to read. With my X6500 being IMAX capable it looks as though it's going to be part and parcel of all Denon and Marantz players going forward.

 

[dante01]

Well that didn't take long to read. With my X6500 being IMAX capable it looks as though it's going to be part and parcel of all Denon and Marantz players going forward.

So you've orderd Angry Birds The Movie II then?


It's only £50:

The Angry Birds Movie 2 (IMAX Enhanced)(4K Ultra HD)(UHD)(DTS:X) 43396549814 | eBay

The 4K UHD Disc will only play on 4K UHD Players. 4K Ultra HD (UHD). - The 4K Ultra HD Disc is Region Free and plays on all 4K Ultra HD Players. IMAX Enhanced / 4K Ultra HD + Blu-ray. The Angry Birds Movie 2 4K Blu-ray.

www.ebay.co.uk

LOL

 

[IanHoll]

So because my LG TV doesn't support DTS I cannot get it if I connect say as soundbar & if I watched a streaming service that steamed DTS. But, because my AVR is connected via eArc to my TV my AVR should be able to able to do the DTS processing before passing it back to the TV - thus giving my the DTS encoded sound?

I'm ripping my UHD discs using MakeMKV. But I'm making a mirror copy using the original file structure so there's no compression or loss of anything. So if my Zappiti is playing a DTS-X or IMAX encoded cloned disc I should get encoded sound & video? Correct?

If both Zappiti, xBox X-Series & Denon support technologies like Dolby Atmos Dolby Vision & HDR etc which is doing the decoding? My LG G1 supports both Dolby Vision & HDR, so it's all a bit confusing what part of your home theatre is processing what. If my LG G1 Evo doesn't support HDR+ will the video from my xBox & Zappiti not display HDR+ video? Will it be limited to standard HDR?


I hope someone can help clear this up for people like me who's wondering how this all works.

 

[gibbsy]

What ever the players and streaming boxes are connected to by HDMI then it is those connected units that will do the decoding. Your LG TV will not decode nor pass DTS. An AV amp will certainly do so and most powered soundbars should as well.

 

[gibbsy]

You should connect all your players and streamers by HDMI to the Denon. The Denon is capable of IMAX and HDR10+. This should be used as your HDMI hub with the eARC connection to your TV. From the TV's audio you will only be a maximum of Dolby Digital Plus and any associated Atmos metadata if available. No streaming service from the TV's Apps, ie, Netflix or Prime will give you any higher than the SD DD+.

If you pass through audio and video to the TV when the Denon is in standby then it's the TV that will do the processing. So no DTS as the TV is not capable of it. If you want DTS then you have to have the Denon do the processing.

DD and DTS are audio formats and require the correct software to convert the digital signal to the analogue that the TV speakers use.

 

[IanHoll]

You should connect all your players and streamers by HDMI to the Denon. The Denon is capable of IMAX and HDR10+. This should be used as your HDMI hub with the eARC connection to your TV. From the TV's audio you will only be a maximum of Dolby Digital Plus and any associated Atmos metadata if available. No streaming service from the TV's Apps, ie, Netflix or Prime will give you any higher than the SD DD+.

If you pass through audio and video to the TV when the Denon is in standby then it's the TV that will do the processing. So no DTS as the TV is not capable of it. If you want DTS then you have to have the Denon do the processing.

DD and DTS are audio formats and require the correct software to convert the digital signal to the analogue that the TV speakers use.

Thank you for the explanation. I am using the Denon as a hub & everything sounds & looks absolutely amazing. It's just nice to know how it works & what's doing what. From what I can gather my Zappiti & x-Box both have the ability to read & pass on the mention metadata to the AVR which in turn then processes the data & does the conversion from digital to analogue. If this is the case, it kind of explains why an AVR runs to hot as that's a lot of processing when you have so many channels to process.

What confused me was the purpose of the actual AVR & how for example at what level of processing an AVR does to a video signal. But from what I can gather a source like the x-Box or Zappiti just need to have the support for say DTS or Dolby in order for it to pass to the Denon to process & convert.

If I say for example plugged my Zappiti straight into the TV that had a soundbar would it be the Zappiti that then processed the audio?

Here's part of my setup below. I ran a cat8 ethernet from my router which is another room to a 5 port Gigabit switch & connected all 4 bits of equipment to the home network. When I rip my UHD discs using my PC in the study they get ripped straight onto one of the Zappiti's 10TB HDDs. There's no having to FTP ripped files or transfer via USB, the rips are decrypted straight onto the Zappiti's HDD. It takes about an hour for each UHD.

 

[gibbsy]

If I say for example plugged my Zappiti straight into the TV that had a soundbar would it be the Zappiti that then processed the audio?

The TV would do the processing, hence you cannot use DTS. If you wanted the soundbar to do the decoding then that would have to be the input used by the Zappiti. If you set up the Denon for HDMI passthrough then the signal would then be processed by the TV when the Denon is in standby. That's what I use for my SkyQ connection. I leave my passthrough on it's default setting.

As for passing through the video on the Denon I would turn all video processing off. The TV will more likely than not do just a good a job at upscaling 1080 to 2160. Just remember to have it set to enhanced.

HDMI Pass Through​

Selects how this unit will transmit HDMI signals to the HDMI output in standby power mode.

On (Default):	Transmits the selected HDMI input through this unit’s HDMI output when this unit is in standby power mode.
Off:	No HDMI signals are transmitted through this unit’s HDMI output in standby power mode.

Pass Through Source​

Sets the HDMI connector that inputs HDMI signals when in standby.

Last:	The most recently used input source will go into standby mode.
CBL/SAT / DVD / Blu-ray / Media Player / Game / AUX / 8K / TV Audio / CD∗ (Default : CBL/SAT):	Pass through the selected input source.

 

[dante01]

So because my LG TV doesn't support DTS I cannot get it if I connect say as soundbar & if I watched a streaming service that steamed DTS. But, because my AVR is connected via eArc to my TV my AVR should be able to able to do the DTS processing before passing it back to the TV - thus giving my the DTS encoded sound?

I'm ripping my UHD discs using MakeMKV. But I'm making a mirror copy using the original file structure so there's no compression or loss of anything. So if my Zappiti is playing a DTS-X or IMAX encoded cloned disc I should get encoded sound & video? Correct?

If both Zappiti, xBox X-Series & Denon support technologies like Dolby Atmos Dolby Vision & HDR etc which is doing the decoding? My LG G1 supports both Dolby Vision & HDR, so it's all a bit confusing what part of your home theatre is processing what. If my LG G1 Evo doesn't support HDR+ will the video from my xBox & Zappiti not display HDR+ video? Will it be limited to standard HDR?


I hope someone can help clear this up for people like me who's wondering how this all works.

Streaming services and TV broadcasters don't use DTS. They all use Dolby encoded audio if and when required or 2 channekl PCM. Atmos for instance in delivered with Dolby Digital Plus if accessing it via a streaming service or TV beoadcaster. None of these services would include anything inclusive of DTS audio.

The only time ossues arise is if wanting to pass DTS sourced via an external device connected to one of the TV's HDMI inputs through one of the more recent TV models that no longer include any support for DTS. You simply cannot do this with such TVs rehardless of whether or not it is eARC enabled. THis is why you'd need to connect such a source directly to the AV receiver as opposec to trying to passing such audio through the TV.\

In regards to audio, your AV receiver would be doing the decoding, but the TV still need to include support in order to be able to pass it through. LG would need to pay DTS in order to license this from them. HDR formats are basically decoded by the display, but the source still needs to be compliant in order for them to be able to convey the information to the disp[lay. The same is true of any intemediate device between the source and the TV. AV receivers don't technically process the video, not unless you purposefully engage some form of processing that the AV receiver may have as a feature? You'd simply be passing the video signal through the AV receiver to the display in most if not all instances. The AV receiver still needs to be able to pass that information through though and would still need support for the HDR format that the video was encoded with.

If the TV cannot handle HDR10+ then you'd get the statoc HDR10 that was included with the GDR10+. The same is true of Samsung TVs that don't support Dolby Vision. You'd simply get staticc HDR10 instead of the dynamic Dolby Vision.

Sources don't process the content they are outputting. You can make them decode audio though, but you may end up losing some of the more desirable elements of that audio by decoding it at source. Atmos and DTS:X are basically metadata packaged with Dolby and DTS channel based formats. If you decode at source then you get multicannel PCM from the decoding of the channel based element, but the metadata is discarded and lost. You'd not get the Atmos or the DTS:X elements of such soundtracks. There is a slight variation on this that will allow Atmos metadata to be conveyed with multichannel PC< and this is called Dolby MAT. Tghis is onl;y used on Windows PCs. the XBox consoles and the AppleTV though. THere's no similar system for DTS:X.

 

[rccarguy2]

Thank you for the explanation. I am using the Denon as a hub & everything sounds & looks absolutely amazing. It's just nice to know how it works & what's doing what. From what I can gather my Zappiti & x-Box both have the ability to read & pass on the mention metadata to the AVR which in turn then processes the data & does the conversion from digital to analogue. If this is the case, it kind of explains why an AVR runs to hot as that's a lot of processing when you have so many channels to process.

What confused me was the purpose of the actual AVR & how for example at what level of processing an AVR does to a video signal. But from what I can gather a source like the x-Box or Zappiti just need to have the support for say DTS or Dolby in order for it to pass to the Denon to process & convert.

If I say for example plugged my Zappiti straight into the TV that had a soundbar would it be the Zappiti that then processed the audio?

Here's part of my setup below. I ran a cat8 ethernet from my router which is another room to a 5 port Gigabit switch & connected all 4 bits of equipment to the home network. When I rip my UHD discs using my PC in the study they get ripped straight onto one of the Zappiti's 10TB HDDs. There's no having to FTP ripped files or transfer via USB, the rips are decrypted straight onto the Zappiti's HDD. It takes about an hour for each UHD.

View attachment 1713430

Aren'y your L and R to far apart?

 

[dante01]

Here's part of my setup below. I ran a cat8 ethernet from my router which is another room to a 5 port Gigabit switch & connected all 4 bits of equipment to the home network. When I rip my UHD discs using my PC in the study they get ripped straight onto one of the Zappiti's 10TB HDDs. There's no having to FTP ripped files or transfer via USB, the rips are decrypted straight onto the Zappiti's HDD. It takes about an hour for each UHD.

I've a NAS located in another room and this is where I store my ripped media files. I convey the files through a router and access it using various devices located throughout my home. The primary device is a Zidoo Z1000 Pro media player. This player is connected directly to my AV receiver and the video passes through that AVR and out to my LG C9. I can access, process and portray both Atmos and DTS:X as well as convey HDR10 and Dolby Vision to the display.

In my case, the TV I have can passthrough DTS encoded audio, but in you case and If the media player were connected directly to your TV relying upon eARC then you'd not be able to access DTS or DTS:X. The same is true if you were were trying to access such audio using the TV's own integral media player.

 

[IanHoll]

That was a great explanation & I understand a lot more than I did. The source is what was confusing me. But as I understand it it's the AVR that's the workhorse & it's the source that is merely handing the AVR the instructions of what to decode & what channel to decode it to.

If I'm understanding it correctly, because my Zappiti Reference supports Dolby Vision, HDR10+ along with Dolby Atmos & DTS-X, then when this meta data is passed to my AVR which also supports the above, because my AVR is configured as a hub to the sources, despite my LG TV not supporting neither DTS, DTS-X or HDR10+, I should still be seeing & hearing these technologies as they're being passed onto the TV & there's no onboard processing to be done by the TV's software.

What's seemingly apparent is Dolby is winning the format war. I would also say that IMAX Enhanced will be the standard soon too. Up to 26% more picture & displaying visuals how they're meant to be displayed is what everyone will want. I'm just wondering if Zappiti will need to be IMAX Enhanced capable in order for the AVR to process it.

 

[SeanBrothers]

I would also say that IMAX Enhanced will be the standard soon too. Up to 26% more picture & displaying visuals how they're meant to be displayed is what everyone will want.

The irony here is that no new standard is needed to present the "Imax" aspect ratio. Aspect ratio is, and has always been, a studio decision regarding home media/broadcast/cinema releases. As for whether this aspect ratio is "how they're meant to be displayed" is its own pit of conflict.

 

[IanHoll]

The irony here is that no new standard is needed to present the "Imax" aspect ratio. Aspect ratio is, and has always been, a studio decision regarding home media/broadcast/cinema releases. As for whether this aspect ratio is "how they're meant to be displayed" is its own pit of conflict.

It's already making me wonder or not to hold back building up my 4K UHD movie collection. I mean, Imax Enhanced will take off and IMO it will become the new standard of aspect ration. With up to 26% more picture it's a no-brainer. There's no 'less is more' when it comes to available visible content.

The fact they've illustrated how in some scenes you don't know who's standing behind because there heads are clipped speaks volumes. No one likes to miss out of not being able to see something or not knowing that they should be seeing something that they can't.

All of these standards makes my head spin! Granted, some are marketing ploys whilst others are competing for market share. When buying AV equipment it only stands to reason why people want the best support possible in order not to miss out on winners of battling formats. So, to cover both say Dolby Vision and HDR10+ would be advantagous. But the fact LG opted not to give HDR10+ and DTS on their TVs tells me they are in bed with Dolby and Dolby have both the resources and influence over people at the top to firmly ensure their technology prevails over the battle of the formats. But competition can only be a good thing as it drives innovation and keeps pricing competitive.

 

[SeanBrothers]

My understanding is that LG did not supprt HDR10+ because it was an iniative of their competitor, Samsung, while Samsung didn't support Dolby Vision because they didn't want to pay licensing fees to Dolby and created their own standard instead. I suspect this race is already over.

I suspect Dolby Atmos vs DTS:X is mostly over as well, although I agree that it sucked that LG dropped support. My C9 has support, which I appreciate, but I haven't needed it yet.

The great thing about whichever aspect ratio you prefer is that your equipment already supports them with no upgrades or new standards needed.

 

[THX1138UK]

No Streaming Services use DTS, so the lack of TV support is justifiable.

You’ll only find DTS and DTS-X on Blu-Ray discs and there are very few titles compared with Dolby Atmos.

You don’t need an AVR to support IMAX Enhanced to watch IMAX Enhanced content.

Disney+ is the only popular service offering 2.9:1 INAX Enhanced titles and they are using Dolby ATMOS not DTS-X.

Sony, who show their support for IMAX Enhanced, don’t (or didn’t) support IMAX Enhanced DTS-X sound!

DTS-X enhanced soundtrack basically adds extra bass to the LFE channel.You can just turn up your subwoofer if that’s what you want to hear. Any AVR that can decide DTS-X is still compatible with IMAX Enhanced titles and can fully reproduce the immersive sound mix.

There’s lots of marketing spin around this.

Regards,
James.