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Superbowl 2005 in HD??

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by thhmo, Jan 18, 2005.

  1. thhmo

    thhmo
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    Anyone heard if this years Superbowl is broadcasted in HD on any of the european satellites??

    /Thomas
     
  2. oaklandraiders

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    Yo

    If it is I'd like to invite myself round to anyone !

    John
     
  3. Master Rahl

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    You guys watch football?! :D
     
  4. Stephen Neal

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    Premiere - the German Pay TV operation - (I think it was them) paid for Superbowl 2004 to be uplinked in Europe (it was 1080/60i - not converted to the European 1080/50i system)

    They didn't encrypt the transmissions last time - as there weren't many HD receivers out there - there aren't that many more this year - so you never know - they might do it again.
     
  5. Evil Engineer

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    Yes. All the time.

    In fact, Manchester United vs. Exeter City is on the telly as I type. :)
     
  6. Abstrakt

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    That’s exactly what I’m praying for. Last year’s broadcast was a field test destined for an audience at the Berlin Sony Center; but since it was in plain ‘old’ MPEG-2 MP@HL and FTA many of us got to watch it as well. ;) Although I’m thinking that a press release would have been issued by now if Premiere were planning a similar stunt this year.

    Keeping in mind that last year’s broadcast wasn’t really meant as a gift to us early adopters, Premiere could very well encrypt it this time around or use another format altogether, namely AVC. Still, let’s keep our collective fingers crossed and hope for the best. I’ll be scanning the skies during the big game looking for a nice high def feed.

    Last year’s broadcast was on Astra 1H @ 19.2°E, on the same DPC transponder that has recently been used for other German high def tests. So this would be a good place to start looking:
    12460 H, SR: 27500, FEC: 3/4

    Cheers.
     
  7. Jonny1973

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    This years host broadcaster, Fox Sports, use 720p not 1080i.
     
  8. CKNA

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    You guys may be interested in this news release about 2005 Superbowl in HD. It also says that HD feed is going to Japan and Germany.
    It looks like this will be the biggest HD production ever for single event.

    News: by Robin Berger


    HD All the Way
    Fox Super Bowl agenda extends hi-def to specialty cameras

    LOS ANGELES

    Having just finished its first full season of covering NFL games in 720p HD (and 5.1 audio), the Fox network is better prepared then ever for its hi-def broadcast of Super Bowl XXXIX on Feb. 6. But Fox Sports officials are quick to point out that this is not just any other game.

    "HD has made our lives wonderfully rich with texture," said Jeff Court, vice president of field operations and site integrator. "But it ain't easy."

    At press time, Court estimated coverage would involve 54 cameras, a slew of fiber, and handy integration software. Optimally, all cameras will be HD--from the three dozen or so Thomson LDK6000s to the six LDK6200 slo-mo models (Plan B would be LDK23s), to remote cameras.

    That would be a first, said George Hoover, senior vice president of engineering at NEP Supershooters, which is supplying four production trucks and the two-truck Nova package. Nova, he said, will supplement the game trucks with "additional cameras, replay devices and pyrotechnics." NEP will also supply an engineering support unit, which Court dubbed "Fox NEO (Networks Engineering and Operations) in a box."

    In addition, ATK Audiotek will provide its Westwood One truck (stadium mix) and All Mobile Video will deliver its Editour and Cinetour, Court said.


    INTERNATIONAL HD

    Fox's HD feeds will also be seen in Japan and Germany. According to Arne Malsch, head of Boxing/U.S. sports for Premiere Fernsehen GmbH, the German signal will be divided into two parts--SD and HD. The live HD feed will be sent directly to Berlin for a closed-circuit viewing by about 300 people for promotional purposes (Premiere plans to start originating HD next November, the first station in Germany to do so).

    Specialty equipment provider Cablecam International now uses a Sony HDCF950 in its suspension system, according to founder and president, Jim Rodnunsky. The company also has used the Helinet/Cineflex HiDEF V14 aerial camera platform, a gimbal made by Helinet Aviation Services, for Fox broadcasts since the Sept. 12 Redskins season opener against the Buccaneers.

    "It was all great before--it's kinda like you bought last year's Maserati, now you're buying this year's," said Rodnunsky, a 10-year customer. He was impressed with the improved ergonomics and tracking. "They closed the loop--the gimbal now sends information about where it is back to the desk."

    That's because the communication channel on the V14 is now bidirectional, letting the operator know where the gimbal is pointed, said Cineflex President John Coyle. A feature in the laptop controller also allows the operator to adjust each control movement of the gimbal independently, and there's a finer adjustment for drift control.

    In addition, Coyle said the system now includes an HD Fujinon 13x lens (the HA13x4.5 BERD), which enables perspectives from 4.5mm to 58.55mm; a flip-in lens doubler takes that to 117 mm for tighter shots.

    Robo-Vision was planning to supply eight remote-controlled HD rigs (with probably two more for the half-time event) using Ikegami HDL40s, which the company has used since September, said CEO Jim Warden.

    "The transmission part of the HD is a lot different than a Sony 950 or an Ikegami 357 with triax," said Warden. "We provide the HD cameras with Telecast Fiber Systems POV Viper II," transmit-and-send box.


    AUDIO & INTEGRATION CHALLENGES

    As for audio, the 5.1 mixes Fox has delivered since the beginning of the season are more challenging to do live than the 3.1 mixes, partially due to differences of opinion regarding the logic of Dolby automation between the manufacturer and Fox's crew, Court said.

    Integration itself also is a challenge. The production director will inevitably redirect the workflow and use the newest equipment for replays, including the Dixon X-File Integration System (DXIS) used in conjunction with EVS HDSLMs.

    Jim Hopkins, senior vice president of engineering in Fox Networks engineering and operations said the Dixon interface made it faster and easier to cull material.

    "The control system provided by Dixon Sports Computing allows the operators to go in and choose the pieces off of those melt disks and dub them off onto high-definition videotapes so that we have an archive copy," Hopkins said. "It also generates metadata, so that we can go back and retrieve it later."

    Fox has used DXIS all season, incorporating various Dixon products along the way. About eight weeks in, according to company President Michael Dixon, Fox bought an upgrade to send material from Fox NEO back to the trucks on the X-file drive. For the Super Bowl, a component will enable the crew to log the game at the truck instead of at the broadcast facility.

    That, and shipping NEO's Dixon system and melted X-files to Jacksonville, Fla. is all part of Fox's grand plan to contain production "completely and totally" in the compound, said Richard Freidel, executive vice president and general manager of Fox Networks engineering and operations.

    "The only thing that happens here at the network center is putting in the commercials," Freidel said.

    http://www.tvtechnology.com/feature...Superbowl.shtml
     
  9. Abstrakt

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    Thanks for the press release CKNA! It gives us poor, HD-starved Europeans a glimmer of hope. ;)

    This is very good news indeed -- it looks like the same arrangement as last year. The transatlantic link was via fiber; no use looking for it on any satellites. But it didn’t get all the way to Berlin via fiber: DPC (Digital Playout Center) based in Unterfoehring, Germany re-uplinked it to Astra 1H for reception at the Berlin venue. That's the feed we might be able to intercept, as long as it's not encrypted...
     
  10. Muf

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    Good scoop CKNA, thanks. Abstrakt, I have been looking out for this for a while. A new DPC feed started on 19 E 12148, H, 27500 on the 1st. of Jan 2005.
    The test card is the same as last year but it is in SD at the moment not HD. There is more than a week to go yet so there might be some test transmissions a few days in advance.

    Jim
     
  11. CKNA

    CKNA
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    I just hope you guys get the whole feed with the cool commercials, 5.1 sound and halftime show. Lats year you guys got no commercial, halftime show and only stereo audio.

    I also wonder if you will see it in 720p60 or they will convert it 1080i. I hope you get it in true 720p60 so you can see how good progressive scanning is for fast action.

    Feed to Japan will be converted to 1080i as they only use 1080i there.
     
  12. SeaneyC

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    I don't supposed anyone wants to record this for me by accident somehow and accidently mail me some DVD-Rs with the content on which of course i will not watch and return immediately?

    I love football! (yes that's football, the game played by overpaid actors is soccer! I support southampton, can you blame me for being bitter?)
     
  13. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Be interesting to see what we get - I suspect if there is a 1080i "clean feed" or "host broadcaster feed" then we will get that. I doubt we'll get a straight feed of the Fox network including adverts.

    As for the commercials - I don't think it would be legal to show it over here in Europe with US commercials inserted, as the advertising legislation in the US is different to that in Europe. Certainly some ads I saw over in the US wouldn't be legal in the UK - mainly the pharmaceuticald ones, and also ones that made statements about other brands (we never see other companies products realistically depicted in UK commercials)

    Pity - as I know that the Superbowl ads are usually works of art...
     
  14. CKNA

    CKNA
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    Host broadcaster is Fox and they are giving 720p. Japanese will convert to 1080i themselves as it is what they always do with any other event shot in 720p. As far as the HD feed to Europe. It is intended for German Closed circuit presentation, so I do not see why it would be illegal to show the ads.
    Rumor is that this year there will be many commercials in HD.
     
  15. Abstrakt

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    Laws regarding commercials don’t apply when it comes to feeds, since these are never meant to be seen by the general public. Sports and other events without a clean “world feed” are often fed to Europe with the same commercials shown nationwide in the US. It's up to the European broadcasters to ensure their audiences don’t see these commercials.

    In fact I’ve been enjoying quite a few US commercials lately, while hunting for the various NFL feeds (all in SD of course.) That Jared fellow in the Subway ads is really starting to get on my nerves though. ;) And yes, there are quite a few ads for pharmaceuticals including some rather humorous ones for Levitra and Viagra.

    But back to the topic at hand, I’d be happy with whatever we can get, whether or not it is the original 720p60 or upconverted & decimated to 1080i60/50. Getting the big Super Bowl commercials and the halftime show would only be icing on the cake.

    I wouldn’t want anyone reading this to get their hopes up however. Last year we were exceptionally lucky to get a free-to-air feed in 1080i. This year’s feed could very well be encrypted or in another format altogether. Keep in mind that Premiere’s forthcoming HDTV offering will use AVC instead of MPEG-2, so this could be a good opportunity for a field test of the new codec.

    Cheers.
     
  16. Stephen Neal

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    Yep - I agree that it isn't illegal to provide a feed to broadcasters containing ad breaks (as others have mentioned this is routine when feeding near-to-air or live shows to other countries) - as it is incumbent on the broadcaster re-broadcasting to ensure they don't get broadcast OTA.

    However IF there is a host-broadcaster "clean feed" - I think it would be "unusual" to not take it, and instead to use the US "dirty" feed with ad-breaks.

    Out of interest - did Premiere provide audio with German commentary on their feed last year - or did it just come "clean FX", or with the US broadcast commentary? Or was there a choice on different audio streams?

    It'll be interesting to see if it gets rebroadcast on satellite in Europe, and whether it is MPEG2 or AVC, and 720/50p, 720/60p or 1080/50i or 1080/60i.

    Given that some of the cameras (or at least the Wirecam mentioned in the press release) in use are 1080i native (the Sony HDCs are equipped with 1080 line sensors in the camera and downconvert to 720 in the CCU AIUI) - it'll be interesting how different it looks. (Do Wirecams use radio links or are they equipped with cable links "back up the wire"?)
     
  17. Abstrakt

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    It only had one audio track, IIRC, and that was the American commentary.

    With regular SDTV NFL feeds we normally get two audio PIDs: one with the American commentary and one with natural sound. Alternatively, if there’s only one audio track in the stream it is usually dual mono: US commentary on the left channel and natural sound on the right.
     
  18. CKNA

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    Anybody watching the Superbowl?. Are you guys getting it there?. Let me know. I am interested what you are getting.
     
  19. Abstrakt

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    Nope, there was no high def feed to be found anywhere over Europe.

    The best we could get was a 4:3 PAL feed with glorious dual mono sound. :( And since it was the NFL world feed we didn’t get the FOX commentary or any of those neat Super Bowl ads.

    Well, at least it was in color! That’s pretty much all we can ask for, considering we’re still in the dark ages over here... :rolleyes:

    Cheers.
     
  20. dixx

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    On Premiere you could get the FoX commentary, pretty sure it was stereo too
     
  21. Abstrakt

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    No, I watched it on Premiere as well and the English commentary was definitely not from FOX. It was the commentary done by the NFL for the world feed.

    And it was not in stereo either, as evidenced by my identical audio levels for the L and R channels. ;) Premiere picks up the official feed from NSS 7 @ 22° West, which has natural sound on the right channel and the NFL commentary on the left. So all they could do was duplicate one of those channels into both their L & R outputs. The same thing applies to any other broadcaster outside the United States, by the way.

    Cheers.
     
  22. dixx

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    Ahh ok, misunderstood you there, thought you meant it was the german dub only.
     

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