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Superbit looks worse than standard discs

Discussion in 'Movie Forum' started by skimber, Feb 21, 2002.

  1. skimber

    skimber
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    Just got "The Fifth Element" superbit and it looks horrible... everything shimmering (particularly in dark scenes) and flickering... it's watchable but slightly nausiating... Also the lipsync slipped a couple of times...

    THEORY: could this be a common problem on older, less powerful players (mine's a samsung DVD-709) that can't process all the extra data quick enough?

    If so then presumably i'll see this problem dissappear when i get my new Denon 2800?

    cheers
     
  2. Jase

    Jase
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    It could be the player as my Superbit copy looks fantastic on my Toshiba 210.

    Certainly havent go any of the problems you´ve mentioned.

    Maybe its down to the players memory buffer or something like that??:confused:

    It should look fantastic on your new Denon.:)
     
  3. mjn

    mjn
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    haven't noticed any of the problems, you've mentioned.
     
  4. skimber

    skimber
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    sounds like it is probably is down to the lack of processing power in my Samsung then.... Hurry up with my Denon, Mr. Unbeatable! :)
     
  5. zcaps57

    zcaps57
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    The 5th Element(SuperBit) is one of the best PQ/SQ titles in my collection.

    You won't notice big improvement on SuperBit titles from other DVD titles unless you have a big screen displays(eg: projectors, plasma).
    For instance, on my Toshiba 32ZP18P 32" TV, every DVD title looks pretty GOOD. (even Amadeus looks pretty good.)
    But on my Sony 11HT projector, it is very easy to notice good PQ titles from bad ones.

    And umm.. it sounds like your Samsung DVD player is the one causing problems.
    Try it on the DENON 2800. if the same, then there's also a possibility that the disc is a faulty one.
     
  6. Geoffc10

    Geoffc10
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    i think its the player too. check out www.709online.co.uk.. I had this player, totally crap. exchanged it for a sony 735, now plays every title i put in it
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    :confused:

    This just doesn't make sence, even if the Samsung was crap it still should show the quality of superbit even on 32 inch tv. Something is wrong here.

    :confused:
     
  8. skimber

    skimber
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    surely a superbit DVD requires more processing power than a normal one because, by definition, there is more data to process? It's like playing an extremely high-bitrate MP3 on an old computer.

    I've also got Bram Stokers Dracula superbit and that has the same problems... every other DVD is fine. (I'm using s-video into a Panasonic AE-100 projector btw.)

    i'll try them on the new player when it arrives (next week probably) and report back but i'm fairly confident it will solve things.
     
  9. Gary Palmer

    Gary Palmer
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    Hi Skimber

    Do you have other region 1 NTSC discs ? Do they do the same.

    I had the 1st Samsung DVD player and it did a weird NTSC-PAL conversion. Maybe this is the problem if by coincidence these are your only region 1 discs... ?

    5th Element looks MUCH better via Superbit for me !
     
  10. skimber

    skimber
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    Nope... about 75% of my DVD's are region 1/ntsc
     
  11. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    MPEG decoding is all done in silicon. It is hard wired. This should not be an issue. I have NEVER heard of a DVD player that can't keep up.

    I would point the finger at the projector. All reliable reports have said it is crap with internal deinterlacing using component / SVideo feeds. I think this is where the problem is. You need to feed this baby a different type of signal to make it sing.

    Superbit 5th Element is Reference quality, hey the old R1 was just about as good as they get and the superbit blows it out of the water. It is NOT the disc.
     
  12. skimber

    skimber
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    Well to my eye, every non-superbit DVD looks great via s-video. It's just these two that look crap. If it was down to the internal scaling then surely it would be the other way around as with superbit it should have a better signal to start with

    Also what does the fact that its all done on silicon have to do with it? Pentiums are silicon but they're not all the same speed :)
     
  13. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt
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    SuperBit discs won't put any strain on a DVD player. They don't use an unusually high bit-rate despite what Sony's marketing people say. Every player on the market should be easily capable of playing them without any problems related to data handling (assuming they can play R1).

    Adam
     
  14. zcaps57

    zcaps57
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    compressed DVD video takes up about 3.5~4.7 Mb/s on the DVD. The Superbit DVDs use less compression and stay near the max of 7 Mb/s.
    the DVD format only supports a 9 Mb/s transfer rate(including sound transfer).

    DVD players shouldn't have problems with transferring only maximum of 9 Mb/s of data. :mad:

    maybe cuz it's SAMSUNG. :D
     
  15. Adam Barratt

    Adam Barratt
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    The maximum transfer rate is actually 10.08Mbps, with a video transfer rate of up to 9.8Mbps. Raw data is read off the disc at 26.16Mbps, then demodulated down 13.08Mbps. This data is then error-corrected, bringing it down further to 11.08Mbps.

    This data is fed into the player's buffer. From this constant 11.08Mbps datastream (1Mbps above mux rate) variable rate data is fed out with a maximum composite (audio, video, subtitles, captioning etc.) rate of up to 10.08Mbps. The buffer transfer rate remains the same regardless of the actual video and audio datarates used by the disc's producers, so the player won't have any problems coping with the demands of a SuperBit, or any other, DVD.

    Adam
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Pentiums run software programs, the MPEG decoder is a HARDWARE device which is designed to work MUCH higher specs than ANY DVD can ever do. It doesn't need software to do the decoding. The software is hardwired in silicon. TIVO does MPEG both coding and decompression in the MPEG chip. The computer bit of it for the flash software and HD is run by a lowly 50MHz powerpc. It still works well. Decode a DVD on a pentium and you need a min of 550MHz P3 and much higher is recomended (700MHz+). Put in a hardware decoder (Creative) and just about any pentium can do it easily as the hardware does the deoding not the software.

    If the superbit doesn't look great there is something wrong here
     

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