Super Hub 2ac in modem mode and Super Hub 3 in router mode

yani2k9

Member
Hello, wondering if someone can help.

Until recently I was running superhub 2ac in modem mode and using netgear nighthawk as the main router. However my housemate needs his nighthawk back so now I'm trying to replace it with a superhub 3 which I had laying around.

I put the superhub 3 in router mode same as before however I am getting no internet connection. Not through ethernet or wifi.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks.
 

SyStemDeMoN

Well-known Member
You need to ring VM and tell them you have change the superhub.
 

yani2k9

Member
Many thanks for your reply!

I called VM and supposedly they reset the connection from their end. At first it didn’t work but once I reset both devices, I am now getting a connection through ethernet.

However, no wifi. The networks do show up and I am able to connect to them, but no internet connection.

Another strange issue that I am now encountering is that I can’t access 192.168.0.1 via ethernet. It only works once I connect through wifi. Even though there is no internet connection through wifi, it allows me to access 192.168.0.1.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again.
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
What's your current state of play...?
E.G.
How many routers are you using?
How are then connected together?
Which are in modem mode (be sure to understand that "Modem mode" is a specific operating condition enabled in the UI - a router does not become in "Modem mode" just by "saying so.")
Have you checked the Wi-Fi radios are actually enabled?
Can you get hold of a Wi-Fi scanner and see what SSID's are being advertised in your locale?
 

yani2k9

Member
What's your current state of play...?
E.G.
How many routers are you using?
How are then connected together?
Which are in modem mode (be sure to understand that "Modem mode" is a specific operating condition enabled in the UI - a router does not become in "Modem mode" just by "saying so.")
Have you checked the Wi-Fi radios are actually enabled?
Can you get hold of a Wi-Fi scanner and see what SSID's are being advertised in your locale?

Hey, thanks for you reply! I was told on another forum that the Superhub3 is a combo modem/router and does not have a WAN ethernet port so it's only acting as a switch.

So apparently I need a new router.. If anyone has a recommendation for a decent router for £100-150, please let me know :)

Virgin media modem is downstairs and the new router is to be positioned upstairs, connected via cat6 cable. I live in a 3 bed house set over 2 floors. It's not a huge house by any means but good wifi range would be nice.

It will not be used for gaming or streaming live TV but will be used for netflix, youtube and things like that. Also streaming footage from the security camera's NVR.

Thanks!
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
You can use a SOHO "router" as a switch (and while you are at it, an additional Wi-Fi AP,) but there's a few configuration changes required and it needs to be cabled up in a certain way. How to do so is described in the "Using Two Routers Together" FAQ pinned in this forum.

If you've not done this correctly you may have partitioned your network into two which means some devices won't be able to talk to others. The reason for asking about you IP addresses is that it will reveal whether you have done this. If you have partitioned your network, then it can be "fixed" by hooking it up the "right" way for nothing and you won't need a new router.

To repeat, if your "Virgin media modem is downstairs" is a one of their typical "SuperHubs" then it is not a "modem" just because you "say so" - it's much more likely to be a typical SOHO "router" (which is actually a combination modem/router/NAT/Firewall/switch/AP and some other stuff.) If you tell us it's exact model number (probably printed on the "serial number" label if nowhere else) someone will know what it is for sure.

On such "routers" that connect to a telephone socket, the telephone socket connection is the "WAN" port, though it's often not labelled such -instead it may say things like "ADSL" "VDSL" "Internet." "WAN" is a topological term, it doesn't refer to any particular technology.
 

yani2k9

Member
You can use a SOHO "router" as a switch (and while you are at it, an additional Wi-Fi AP,) but there's a few configuration changes required and it needs to be cabled up in a certain way. How to do so is described in the "Using Two Routers Together" FAQ pinned in this forum.

If you've not done this correctly you may have partitioned your network into two which means some devices won't be able to talk to others. The reason for asking about you IP addresses is that it will reveal whether you have done this. If you have partitioned your network, then it can be "fixed" by hooking it up the "right" way for nothing and you won't need a new router.

To repeat, if your "Virgin media modem is downstairs" is a one of their typical "SuperHubs" then it is not a "modem" just because you "say so" - it's much more likely to be a typical SOHO "router" (which is actually a combination modem/router/NAT/Firewall/switch/AP and some other stuff.) If you tell us it's exact model number (probably printed on the "serial number" label if nowhere else) someone will know what it is for sure.

On such "routers" that connect to a telephone socket, the telephone socket connection is the "WAN" port, though it's often not labelled such -instead it may say things like "ADSL" "VDSL" "Internet." "WAN" is a topological term, it doesn't refer to any particular technology.
Thanks a lot for the info. As I am unfamiliar with how an AP would need to be setup and I don't really have the technical knowhow, I've decided to keep it simple and just order a WAN router. I went with Asus AC88U. I already have a cat6 cable running from the Superhub downstairs (which is what the coax is plugged into) to the upstairs anyway, so it should be pretty straightforward that way. And I also have a CCTV NVR upstairs which will plug into the router, if it's an AP I'm presuming that wouldn't work?
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
All Wi-Fi is availed by "Access Points" (abbreviated AP's or WAP's.) AP's get built into other things such as SOHO (so-called) "routers" (AKA HomeHubs, SuperHubs, et. al,) HomePlugs, Mi-Fi's, even smartphones (that's what "personal hotspot" and/or "tethering" is.) And if course AP's are available as discrete stand alone devices.

Whilst "enterprise" and "professional" equipment might have myriad configurable parameters, cheap SOHO kit is usually sold on a "appliance" basis with little configuration effort required or possible. Pretty much it's a matter of assigning an IP address, setting the SSID and passphase (AKA "Wi-Fi Key") and maybe setting the radio channel and transmit power if you want to - some kit doesn't even let you do the latter.

A thought occurred that maybe your "downstairs" router is running in modem mode which would explain why you cannot get more than one device onto the Internet. It's a bit of a rookie mistake to think that in order to turn off Wi-Fi, you need to configure a router in "modem mode" and lot's of people rush to this option when they are having Wi-FI issues and don't want to use the ISP routers Wi-Fi. In reality, all they needed to do was disable the Wi-FI radios (it's rarely more than a couple of clicks) and leave the router doing everything else (particularly, routing, NAT, firewalling and functioning as a DHCP Server.)

If your downstairs router is running modem mode, flipping it back into routing mode might fix all your current problems. Then your second router "only" needs to function as an AP/switch combo (see FAQ on how to cripple and cable it.) With the bonus that you can still use the LAN ports on downstairs router ("modem mode" will probably have disabled all but one of them.)

However without any information about the exact make/models of your equipment and your IP addressing, we're little better than guessing.
 
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MarkyPancake

Distinguished Member
I called VM and supposedly they reset the connection from their end. At first it didn’t work but once I reset both devices, I am now getting a connection through ethernet.

However, no wifi. The networks do show up and I am able to connect to them, but no internet connection.

Another strange issue that I am now encountering is that I can’t access 192.168.0.1 via ethernet. It only works once I connect through wifi. Even though there is no internet connection through wifi, it allows me to access 192.168.0.1.

VM Super Hubs are an all-in-one solution when in router mode, so they act as both the modem and a wired/wireless router when in router mode. You can only run one SH at an address and it has to be registered and activated by VM. So, it sounds like your issues are stemming from trying to use a deactivated SH in conjunction with an activated one.

If they've registered the SH3 to you, then the SH2ac should no longer be active and you need to use the SH3 in its place. If you don't want to spend out on a separate router and run the SH in modem mode and if they've activated the SH3, then the SH3 can handle being a router, but it's not known for having great wireless performance or coping with many devices, which is where a third-party router comes in.
 

yani2k9

Member
VM Super Hubs are an all-in-one solution when in router mode, so they act as both the modem and a wired/wireless router when in router mode. You can only run one SH at an address and it has to be registered and activated by VM. So, it sounds like your issues are stemming from trying to use a deactivated SH in conjunction with an activated one.
I think you've hit the nail on the head here. Foolishly I hadn't considered that but it makes total sense - the superhub 3 is indeed from a different address. What's worse is that none of the 3 VM tech support guys I spoke with failed to spot that. And my fault also, for not thinking to include that in the original post here.
If they've registered the SH3 to you, then the SH2ac should no longer be active and you need to use the SH3 in its place. If you don't want to spend out on a separate router and run the SH in modem mode and if they've activated the SH3, then the SH3 can handle being a router, but it's not known for having great wireless performance or coping with many devices, which is where a third-party router comes in.
Yes exactly, except the other way around: SH2 (downstairs, in modem mode) is registered at this address and active. Upstairs is the SH3 (from different address) which I set to router mode but no wifi. So presumably that's because it's not activated on this address? But then someone on another forum also told me that the SH3 "is a combo modem/router and does not have a WAN ethernet port so it's only acting as a switch". And it's true, the SH3 does not have a WAN port on the back. So there's not 1 problem to this setup but 2.

So I've now ordered an ASUS RT-AC88U to trial it for a while and see how I get on.

Thanks for your input here :)
 

yani2k9

Member
A thought occurred that maybe your "downstairs" router is running in modem mode which would explain why you cannot get more than one device onto the Internet. It's a bit of a rookie mistake to think that in order to turn off Wi-Fi, you need to configure a router in "modem mode" and lot's of people rush to this option when they are having Wi-FI issues and don't want to use the ISP routers Wi-Fi. In reality, all they needed to do was disable the Wi-FI radios (it's rarely more than a couple of clicks) and leave the router doing everything else (particularly, routing, NAT, firewalling and functioning as a DHCP Server.)

If your downstairs router is running modem mode, flipping it back into routing mode might fix all your current problems. Then your second router "only" needs to function as an AP/switch combo (see FAQ on how to cripple and cable it.) With the bonus that you can still use the LAN ports on downstairs router ("modem mode" will probably have disabled all but one of them.)

Hi. I was just replicating an existing setup (or so I thought I was). Prior to this I had a Netgear Nighthawk upstairs, which was connected via cat6 to the Virgin media superhub 2ac downstairs (where the coax is plugged in), which was in modem mode. So the nighthawk was the main router for wifi and also my CCTV NVR was connected to it as well. Everything was working perfectly at that point. But then my friend asked for his Nighthawk back and I had a Superhub 3 laying around from my previous address and I thought I could just replace them.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that if I change the downstairs Superh 2ac to router mode, I can use the upstairs Superhub 3 as an access point and that way both devices would work as wifi transmitters? Well, that would be awesome. But then can the NVR be plugged into the Superhub 3? Because if not, I'd then have to move all the CCTV cables and NVR unit downstairs which is too much hassle.

There's also the issue that the superhub 3 might not work at all here because it's not registered to this address.

Thanks for the help.
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Not really, the SH3 is expecting the WAN connection to come from coax port rather than Ethernet. It is possible, takes a bit of messing about with IP addresses but I would honestly look at extending the coax cable upstairs if at all possible and putting the SH3 in normal router mode if that is what you would like to do.

But seeing as you have ordered the Asus router then put either of the virgin SH in modem mode downstairs and put the Asus upstairs.
 

MarkyPancake

Distinguished Member
I'm finally understanding the WAN port issue now. Our SH2 has been in modem mode for so long, I had forgotten about the set up.

So, with a third-party router that will have a WAN port, you run an Ethernet cable from (usually) LAN port 1 on the Super Hub when it's in modem mode (only one of its LAN ports is usually active in modem mode) to the WAN port on the router, then enjoy the benefits of a more capable router.
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
But if I'm understanding you correctly, are you saying that if I change the downstairs Superh 2ac to router mode, I can use the upstairs Superhub 3 as an access point and that way both devices would work as wifi transmitters? Well, that would be awesome. But then can the NVR be plugged into the Superhub 3? Because if not, I'd then have to move all the CCTV cables and NVR unit downstairs which is too much hassle.

Yes, that's what I'm suggesting.

I don't know VM, but I think the "registering the address" thing is just for establishing the ISP link (nothing else.) So presently, your "downstairs" device is doing that and would continue to do so even if you flip it back into router mode.

If you then use the SH3 to run as an AP/switch combo, it's not (of itself) establishing an ISP link (as SH2 is doing that) and SH3's inbuilt modem (if it has one)/router/NAT/Firewall aren't doing anything (as no traffic will be passing through those functions.)

If you pursue this regime, I'd take it in two stages to maintain your sanity as the IP addressing will got nuts for bit (as it will if you buy a new router.)

First, unplug the SH3 from everything so it's out of the picture temporarily. Then flip the SH2 back into router mode, check it's still connecting to your ISP. At this point your DHCP and IP addressing will be a bit screwed up (as you essentially will be activating a new DHCP Server on your network.) Wait 24 hours after which it should have sorted itself out automatically - rebooting all the client devices might expedite this and get it done sooner (I can explain what's going on here if you're interested.) Then set up it's Wi-Fi with whatever SSID and passphrase you want (or turn it's Wi-Fi off if you don't want it.) You should be able to use all it's ethernet ports.

Once that's all sorted, set up the SH3. How to do this is described in detail in the "Using Two Routers Together" FAQ pinned in this forum, but the real short version is you need to change SH3 IP address to something that doesn't conflict with everything else on your LAN (including the SH2,) disable it's DHCP Server (note "Server" not "Client" - it'll have both) and cable it to SH2 using one of it's LAN and not it's WAN/Internet port. Then again, set up Wi-Fi as you like and you can use any of the remaining SH3 LAN ports for anything you like (WAN port shall forever remain unused on SH3.)

After that, we can play with the Wi-FI channel tuning to get it optimal for a two hotspot regime. but sort the basic connectity and IP addressing out first.
 
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