Suggestions for a very small scale home cinema

[DrPhil]

The Marantz, I don't believe, does Atmos - so at some point you'll want to upgrade from that - even if you don't plan on Atmos right now.

The other two are decent candidates - though I'm not familiar with the Pioneer.

I'm not directly familiar with the Denon either, but it's the closest thing to any of my Marantz gear that I've used in the past.

No idea, whether the prices are reasonable though - do you have an AV dealer close by? They often have stuff taken in as part-ex that might suit.

There's a Denon X4000 also, for £395.

I'm not in a great spot in terms of AV dealers. They don't call this the forgotten country for nothing. I'd say my closest specialist is Coleraine, about 40 miles away. There was a home cinema specialist there, might give them a call in the morning.

 

[DrPhil]

Closest AV store to me (40 miles) has a Denon 2700, second hand, for £550.

Aside from auction sites that looks like my only option as there's not much floating around on here.

 

[Belzok]

There's a Denon X4000 also, for £395.

I'm not in a great spot in terms of AV dealers. They don't call this the forgotten country for nothing. I'd say my closest specialist is Coleraine, about 40 miles away. There was a home cinema specialist there, might give them a call in the morning.

That's an old amp now, 2013ish.

For Denon amps the 2nd number is the denotes the version.

I have a AVR-X2300 which came out in 2016, the X2400 was 2017 and the current iteration is the X2700.

The X2300 can be setup in Atmos 5.1.2 or surround 7.1 configuration, so I'm sure the newer version can do the same.

The X2400 or X3400 would be good I would say

I would suggest maybe thinking about a 9.2 channel version to give yourself a bit of flexibility if you fancy adding another couple of speakers later down the line, but this just comes down to money and whether you think you will get upgraditis

 

[DrPhil]

Thanks @Belzok

Thoughts on the 2700? It's more than I want to spend, but it's from a reputable dealer, sold and set up by them originally and hasn't had much use apparently.

 

[Belzok]

As it's the newer version of my X2300 they do a good job in a small room.

My room is about 5m x 3.5m for reference.

Your room doesn't really lend itself to sides and rears with that sofa so I'm not sure moving to a 9.2 amp would be worthwhile.

Perhaps go with a two seater in the middle of the room and about 1m from the rear wall

 

[DrPhil]

Well I bought the 2700...

Just waiting for the eggs to arrive, hopefully tomorrow.

 

[DrPhil]

Another possible daft question...

If I hook up the AVR but without the speakers, will the TV just play the sound via the hdmi as normal?

 

[The Dreamer]

Another possible daft question...

If I hook up the AVR but without the speakers, will the TV just play the sound via the hdmi as normal?

As long as the AVR is switched off, it should do, via the HDMI pass-through.

I‘ve never used that facility, so not sure if it’s a setting that needs enabling in a menu, or whether the AVR will pass through automatically.

If you switch the AVR on, it will try to play the source through the ‘non-existent’ speakers.

At least, that’s how I understand it.

 

[DrPhil]

Thanks @The Dreamer and yes you're right. I set it up tonight (without speakers) and in the settings there is an option for pass through, and when I turn the receiver off the source still plays with the volume coming through the TV.

First issue though, although I suspect I know what the issue is.

When I turn on Sky and switch to the correct input, I get this on the screen. I'm guessing that this is because the Sky box is trying to broadcast normal audio over hdmi rather than 5.1, as mentioned previously by @Joe Fernand?

If I power off the receiver, then the pass through works and I get Sky. I then tried changing the sound setup to dolby digital, and the same error then pops up although the video does keep playing.

In other words when the Sky box is set to standard sound, the AVR won't play the source at all. When the Sky box is set to dolby digital via hdmi, the TV doesn't like it.

I'm guessing that once I set the optical to DD then it'll be OK?

 

[The Dreamer]

Thanks @The Dreamer and yes you're right. I set it up tonight (without speakers) and in the settings there is an option for pass through, and when I turn the receiver off the source still plays with the volume coming through the TV.

First issue though, although I suspect I know what the issue is.

View attachment 1646991

When I turn on Sky and switch to the correct input, I get this on the screen. I'm guessing that this is because the Sky box is trying to broadcast normal audio over hdmi rather than 5.1, as mentioned previously by @Joe Fernand?

If I power off the receiver, then the pass through works and I get Sky. I then tried changing the sound setup to dolby digital, and the same error then pops up although the video does keep playing.

In other words when the Sky box is set to standard sound, the AVR won't play the source at all. When the Sky box is set to dolby digital via hdmi, the TV doesn't like it.

I'm guessing that once I set the optical to DD then it'll be OK?

Mmm. Honestly not sure…. I’ve never seen a message like that, so wouldn’t like to say what the issue is - but certainly it’s something to do with the signal from the Sky box, if that’s what you’re feeding it. Interesting that the TV is happy with it, yet the AVR is complaining.

 

[DrPhil]

Mmm. Honestly not sure…. I’ve never seen a message like that, so wouldn’t like to say what the issue is - but certainly it’s something to do with the signal from the Sky box, if that’s what you’re feeding it. Interesting that the TV is happy with it, yet the AVR is complaining.

Could it be because I have the hdmi from the receiver to the TV connected to the ARC hdmi port on the receiver? I'll admit that I don't know what ARC does so I just picked a port.

I'll try it in the other hdmi output when I get home.

Also from googling it seems that Denon and Sky are no stranger to issues.

 

[The Dreamer]

Could it be because I have the hdmi from the receiver to the TV connected to the ARC hdmi port on the receiver? I'll admit that I don't know what ARC does so I just picked a port.

I'll try it in the other hdmi output when I get home.

Also from go ogling it seems that Denon and Sky are no stranger to issues.

ARC is Audio Return Channel, which allows the TV to pass audio signals back down the HDMI cable to the receiver - which means if you’re watching something directly on the TV, from Freeview say, you can have the sound played via your AVR using your Egg speakers.

So it’s quite normal for the TV to be connected to an HDMI output labelled ARC.

 

[DrPhil]

ARC is Audio Return Channel, which allows the TV to pass audio signals back down the HDMI cable to the receiver - which means if you’re watching something directly on the TV, from Freeview say, you can have the sound played via your AVR using your Egg speakers.

So it’s quite normal for the TV to be connected to an HDMI output labelled ARC.

Thanks, might require a bit more troubleshooting then. Lots of similar posts on AVF about issues with Sky Q, Denon, hdmi CEC, handshakes and other things I don't understand.

 

[Joe Fernand]

Top right of the TV Screen would suggest the AVR is passing your Xbox signal to the TV and possibly the Xbox is outputting a format the TV does not support!

Some AVR will always show the 'last' active Source when in Standby others do allow you to select/toggle which Source you wish to view even when the AVR is in Standby.

As @The Dreamer says ARC should not be an issue - other than it requires you to enable CEC which can be hit and miss with some kit combinations.

I would set SKY to Video + 2.0 audio via HDMI plus DD5.1 via Optical then power the whole system off and reconnect with only the SKY Box connected to the AVR before you re-power and see if you get things working.

Joe

 

[The Dreamer]

Actually. Just a thought.

We don't know whether it's the TV, or the Denon, producing, as in displaying, that 'error' message.

Could it be the TV? I wonder if you have the Denon set to upscale to 4K, and the TV is only 1080? That might produce such a message - which wouldn't occur using passthrough - though the HDMI handshake should prevent such a thing it can be a bit fickle at times.

Worth checking your Denon's settings to make sure it's not upscaling inappropriately.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here - but it was just a thought.

 

[calvind123]

Actually. Just a thought.

We don't know whether it's the TV, or the Denon, producing, as in displaying, that 'error' message.

Could it be the TV? I wonder if you have the Denon set to upscale to 4K, and the TV is only 1080? That might produce such a message - which wouldn't occur using passthrough - though the HDMI handshake should prevent such a thing it can be a bit fickle at times.

Worth checking your Denon's settings to make sure it's not upscaling inappropriately.

I could be barking up the wrong tree here - but it was just a thought.

I'm pretty sure it's the TV producing that error message, from Googling the text it comes up on other threads from people that own Sharp TVs.

 

[DrPhil]

Top right of the TV Screen would suggest the AVR is passing your Xbox signal to the TV and possibly the Xbox is outputting a format the TV does not support!

Joe

Sorry @Joe Fernand that's me causing confusion. The input on the TV was previously named as xbox as the xbox was directly connected. I need to rename that as AVR. so that top right text isn't actually relevant.

Actually. Just a thought.

We don't know whether it's the TV, or the Denon, producing, as in displaying, that 'error' message.

Could it be the TV? I wonder if you have the Denon set to upscale to 4K, and the TV is only 1080? That might produce such a message

I could be barking up the wrong tree here - but it was just a thought.

You might be onto something. The TV is an old one and 1080p is as good as it gets. TV replacement is the end goal but a year or more away I suspect.

I'll check that when I get home. Just picking up some cheapo speaker wire currently. The good quality OFC stuff is on the way but delayed so I'm getting some cheap and cheerful just to get started, won't bother hiding the runs up and over etc as I'll do the job right in a day or 2.

Just want to make sure everything is working.

 

[The Dreamer]

Output Settings AVR-X2700H

manuals.denon.com

These are the settings you'll need to take a look at - and it seems they can be changed/be different for each input source - so just because it's what you want for one input, it may not be the same for the others.

HTH

 

[DrPhil]

Output Settings AVR-X2700H

manuals.denon.com

These are the settings you'll need to take a look at - and it seems they can be changed/be different for each input source - so just because it's what you want for one input, it may not be the same for the others.

HTH

Gold star for you...

I just changed the video output settings from 4k to auto and...

Setting up speakers this afternoon.

Watching UHD content in 1080p is going to sting. I'll probably end up selling a kidney to fund a new telly.

 

[The Dreamer]

Yay!

I'll probably end up selling a kidney to fund a new telly.

...and so it begins!

 

[DrPhil]

D'oh...

Juat opened up the eggs, and it turns out the seller included all his old speaker wire.

Thoughts? Does this look good enough quality, or should I keep the new OFC stuff I ordered on Amazon?

Pretty sure there's enough there for the long run too.

 

[DrPhil]

And after all that faffing seeking cables, the Amazon delivery turned up on time.

Next question, speaker placement.

I'm guessing that they should be around ear level. However I don't have that option at the front (whilst maintaining some level of discreet looks). If I set the fronts on the TV unit, first of all they're very close together, secondly they're obscuring the bottom of the screen.

2 other options, thoughts?

The rears are easier, I've moved the sofa forward a bit but not much - WAF...

Bear in mind that this certainly won't be perfect, and compromises are needed to take into account the small room and the small woman who rules it.

 

[Jester1066]

Hey @DrPhil Been reading your thread with interest.

Option 1: I believe the mini stand on those Kef Eggs can be configured (by unscrewing the stand with an Allen key) to allow for wall mounting. You'd then be able to position the left & right eggs on the wall with the centre below the TV. See this thread:

Wall mounting KEF eggs

Basically can the KEF 2005.2 eggs be mounted to walls without any other brakets being required?

www.avforums.com

Option 2: Alternatively you could raise the TV slightly with something like this:

Duronic Monitor Stand Riser DM052-2 | Laptop and Screen Stand for Desktop | Black Tempered Glass | Support for a TV or PC Computer Monitor | Ergonomic Office Desk Shelf | 20kg Capacity | 56cm x 24cm Amazon product

(Although I appreciate the 2nd option doesn't resolve the speaker spacing issue).

Option 3: Buy a 2nd set of Kef stands and mount the left & right speakers on them, leaving the centre under the TV

Personally I'd go with wall mounting (subject to WAF clearance). It's also the cheapest - only the cost for a few screws and fixinngs.

Hope this helps!

 

[The Dreamer]

Hey @DrPhil Been reading your thread with interest.

Option 1: I believe the mini stand on those Kef Eggs can be configured (by unscrewing the stand with an Allen key) to allow for wall mounting. You'd then be able to position the left & right eggs on the wall with the centre below the TV. See this thread:

Wall mounting KEF eggs

Basically can the KEF 2005.2 eggs be mounted to walls without any other brakets being required?

www.avforums.com

Option 2: Alternatively you could raise the TV slightly with something like this:

Duronic Monitor Stand Riser DM052-2 | Laptop and Screen Stand for Desktop | Black Tempered Glass | Support for a TV or PC Computer Monitor | Ergonomic Office Desk Shelf | 20kg Capacity | 56cm x 24cm Amazon product

(Although I appreciate the 2nd option doesn't resolve the speaker spacing issue).

Option 3: Buy a 2nd set of Kef stands and mount the left & right speakers on them, leaving the centre under the TV

Personally I'd go with wall mounting (subject to WAF clearance). It's also the cheapest - only the cost for a few screws and fixinngs.

Hope this helps!

DrPhil has bought the 1000 series eggs, slightly smaller than the 2000's - and the 1000's don't have wall mounts built-in.

Next question, speaker placement.

I'm guessing that they should be around ear level. However I don't have that option at the front (whilst maintaining some level of discreet looks). If I set the fronts on the TV unit, first of all they're very close together, secondly they're obscuring the bottom of the screen.

2 other options, thoughts?

Personally, I'd build, or buy, a couple of mini wall shelfs and stick your L&R eggs on those either side of the TV.

Amazon product

You can rod the cable either down the wall to the skirting or up to your loft space.

 

[Jester1066]

DrPhil has bought the 1000 series eggs, slightly smaller than the 2000's - and the 1000's don't have wall mounts built-in.



Personally, I'd build, or buy, a couple of mini wall shelfs and stick your L&R eggs on those either side of the TV.

Amazon product

You can rod the cable either down the wall to the skirting or up to your loft space.

Thanks fir the clarification. I must confess, the only knowledge of eggs I have is those that you eat! ....

Great idea re the mini shelfs. That'll offer a very clean look - whilst also ticking the "WAF box"