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Suggest Bi/Di pole surounds for use with B&W CDM NTs

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by meep, Apr 9, 2003.

  1. meep

    meep
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    Hi all,

    Anyone care to suggest some Bi/Di poles I could audition which might belnd with my B&W CDm 1NTs and CDM CNT across the front?

    I'd like to sample the "diffuse" effect these speakers are said to present but obviously need something that will be a good match.

    And anyway, what defines "a good match"? What should i be listening out for?

    Thanks

    Peter
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    When matching speakers the theory is that voice coil matching is important so that there is no change in the timbre of voices or sounds panning from front to back.

    I have a completely different theory as 90% of all of the sound in a film comes from the front three speakers so I prefer a larger part of my overall speaker budget to go there as well.

    I have £1,500 of M&K speakers as my front three and £150 of Mission M7DS as rears and I am happy with the overall effect of my speaker budget.
     
  3. nathan_silly

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    Agree with Ian, you don't need to match- as long as the rears sound "good"

    B&W made DS6 THX speakers a while ago (if you want to stick with B&W) £400 new

    Use dipoles on the sides, and bipoles on the back wall. Do not place dipoles on the back wall.
     
  4. meep

    meep
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    Hmm,

    DS6's look like what I need alright but they're not making them anymore.

    Anyone advise of possible sources for discontinued speakers?

    Thanks
     
  5. nathan_silly

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    Probably 2nd hand.


    btw, I've seen the DS6's in the flesh. The cabinets are plastic, I would guess this could influence the sound. Quite bad build quality. A big step down from your fronts- does that bother you?

    I have a pair of NHT HDP-2's, they sound fab.
     
  6. meep

    meep
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    nathan

    Doing some net reserach on them now. Plastic. ugh. That's really put me off.

    Odd that B&W don't appear to make di-poles anymore. Could it be worth waiting?

    Anyway, what on earth is a NHT HDP-2 ??

    Peter
     
  7. meep

    meep
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    Nathan

    just searched on those NHT HDP-2s. Hmm.

    What do you have up front? Where did you source them?

    Thanks

    peter
     
  8. nathan_silly

    nathan_silly
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  9. MuFu

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    No idea how well they'll match, but the Kef Q2ds are pretty nice units. They'll have to go on the side walls though.

    So what do you have at the moment as your rear soundfield?

    MuFu.
     
  10. meep

    meep
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    MuFu

    My current sides and rears are 4x weedy panasonics that came with my first 5.1 receiver. (Not really bad speakers but I think i can do better :) )

    Anyway, called my B&W dealer today and it turns out he has a pair of DS6's available second-hand. Guess what's going to be hanging on my wall for a demo this weekend!

    Doing more research here and I've come across the limited frequency issue with these speakers. I'm still going to have a listen though and if the price is right....

    I'm also going to see if he'll let me have a pair of CDM SNTs as well, for comparison's sake!

    At least now i'll get to hear the 'dipole effect" and determine if i like it or not.

    I'll update this thread with my thoughts.

    Peter
     
  11. nathan_silly

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    Meep, my local shop had 2nd hand DS6's, was selling them for £150.

    How much is the your dealer asking?
     
  12. deckard

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    I use Jamo surround 300's as rears, well on the side!

    Don't necessarily turn down these as they're very solid and well made dipoles, despite being made by Jamo (yuck).

    They're still available although they're called something else these days, something like D5R or other.

    I got them at a discount for around £150 a few years back and they make pretty good partners for my Linn Keilidhs/Trikan.
     
  13. nathan_silly

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    I've used the Jamo 300's for a week Quite good however limited in output (only 70W) and bass extension.

    The Jamo's are bipoles, not dipoles.

    Checkout Definitive Technology BP-1x's, BP-2x's, and BP-X's, very high output/power handling. All bipoles.
     
  14. Kitch

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    hi

    spoke to a gentlemen in the technical department at b&w the other day
    i asked about the ds6, got the same reply ,discontinued
    but he did mention they are in the process of bringing a new dipole out within the next few months

    hope this helps

    mick
     
  15. MuFu

    MuFu
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    Hey, that's interesting. Did he say what range they would be part of (high/low-end)?

    The DS6 seem to be very popular, despite not being full range. I was after a s/h pair a while ago and they get snapped up pretty quickly. £150 is a good price - normally they are ~<£200.

    MuFu.
     
  16. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The comments that I made earlier about not being too worried about front rear matching and spending the major proportion of my budget on front speakers only works for DVD and stereo.

    I have tonight played the new Dark Side of the Moon SACD in all it's multi channel glory and it sounds dreadful on my system as so much of the sound is from the rears and the difference in timbre and quality is strikingly obvious.

    As I only have one DVDA and one SACD but over one hundred DVDs I will remain happy with my system.
     
  17. meep

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    Well, I got the DS6's home and up on the wall. Ran my Pioneer 2011 auto set-up (sweet) and settled down to a bit of listening.

    As always, not enough time. However, stuck on Eagles hell freezes Over DVD (can't seem to find better live audio quality on DVD), Phantom meanace pod racing and a few other snippets. Also engaged 7 speaker surround processing on a few CD tracks.

    The DS6s performed well and integrated well with my CDM fronts. The sound coming from them is certainly more detailed than my cheapie direct-radiating panasonic speakers and I don't find the di-pole effect too disperse at all.

    With the Eagles DVD, instruments placed in the surround tracks were certainly audible and placed well. Pods in Star Wars whizzed past to great effect. Cd tracks really did come from around the room (though I don't generally like this effect for music anyway).

    I'll probably get these for less than €200 (about Stg 130) and as such, I think the purchase is a no-brainer, although the impending arrival of new B&w dipoles is of interest. Also, I'm wondering what I'm missing with the high frequency cut-off kicking in at 8KHz.

    Now all i need are decent rears.....

    Peter
     
  18. MuFu

    MuFu
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    Well, presumably your sub is handling <80Hz content (although I notice you didn't mention you had one).

    Love your cinema room, btw. :cool:

    MuFu.
     
  19. meep

    meep
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    MuFu

    Sub is Velodyne CHT-15 set to crossover at 80Hz so no problems there, it's the top end I'm worried about.

    You kno, sitting there, watching a great movie and all you can think about is "I wonder if there is a high-frequency surround effect there that I missed because my di-poles cut off at 8KHz....":rolleyes:

    Thanks for checking out the site - though it needs some serious updating as a LOT of stuff has changed.

    Peter
     
  20. nathan_silly

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    Nice one meep. Another dipole fan here! (as sides) despite what other people say they are better in UK homes (small rooms) and the surround fills in nicely, but it's still directional.

    The NHT's are full range (well 57hz-20,000khz)
     
  21. MuFu

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    Ah yes, they are 85-8k aren't they? I was thrown off by the "8Hz" bit.

    LOL... yeah I know exactly what you mean, although I doubt you are missing anything explicit. I have no rear bass management at the moment (thanks to the Audigy2's crappy 4.1 mode) and it's annoying the hell out of me. :mad: :D

    Fitted the carpet yet? I imagine that would make an absolutely massive difference.

    MuFu.
     
  22. meep

    meep
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    Typo fixed. It the DS6s did 8Hz I don't think they would have been discontinued!!

    No carpet yet but next on the list. For some reason, my wife wants to spend the money on putting in a lawn. Why would she want that???

    peter
     
  23. meep

    meep
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    Yes, but the DS6's are on my wall and very good value and sound good!!!!

    Peter
     
  24. magking

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    You should also look at Paradigms ADP range here.
    I have the ADP 150 with B&W 600 series and love them.
    They have been replased by the ADP 170 now though.
     
  25. meep

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    Hmm,

    Thoughts have now moved on to finding a pair of rears.

    Option 1 would be to get a new pair of CDM 9NTs for up-front duties and move the 1NTs to rears. (Wife recently expressed a liking for floorstanders!)

    This is an expensive option and I'd be using a pair of excellent speakers (1NTs) as channels 6 & 7 which really don't get used that much at all.

    Option 2 is to get a pair of low end B&Ws, (602 S3s maybe - a good match for the DS6s?) and use the rest of the cash to invest in a decent CD spinner and possibly stereo amp.

    Listening to some Classical music last night, the spinning of my HTPC DVD drive was distracting in the quiet passages! I know it's sad when the loudest part of your PC is the drive and you're still not happy but I think a decent CD deck would compliment the speaker set-up better and a good stereo amp would suit my 1Nts better than the receiver for music.

    (Anyone got B&W CDMs hooked up to a stereo amp and if so, what?)

    Regards
     
  26. lespaton

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    "Anyone got B&W CDMs hooked up to a stereo amp and if so, what?".......
    I have my front CDM-1nt's driven off of a Linn Kolektor/LK140 setup....fed by an Ikemi.....sounds wonderful.
     
  27. MuFu

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    This thread might be of some interest: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75529

    See if there's a utility available to quieten your drive. Most DVD-ROMs (Pioneer, Sony etc) can be put into "quiet mode" without compromising DVD playback performance. I remember reading somewhere that Asus' "CDSpeed" supports Hitachi DVD drives.

    MuFu.
     
  28. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Meep,

    had you thought about getting Nautilus 805s for the front channels? They're substantially cheaper than CDM 9NTs. Less bass response, obviously, but perhaps better in the mid-range.
     
  29. meep

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    MuFu

    Already using the Pioneer DVD utility to 'silence' the drive. Just a rush of air coming out of the drive is enough to upset me (granted, I think it might be related to the CD itself as I haven't heard other didcs make such a racket).

    Peter
     
  30. meep

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    Nicolas,

    I hadn't considered that but might. Really, I'd hate to pust my 1NTs to the back as I'm very happy with them asd, as I say, you don't really hear THAT much from channels 6&7 and something a bit cheaper would do.

    Think I'll spend the budget this time on a CD & Amp for music listening and look at speaker upgrades next time...
     

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