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such choice! such confusion! Help!!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by GrahamT, Nov 21, 2004.

  1. GrahamT

    GrahamT
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    Hi Everbody.
    I need some help :)

    read all the postins very carefully. took everthing into consideration got my list narrowed down.

    Okay Im off to look for:-

    1 the Hitachi 42PD5200 less than 2K and 1024X1024.
    2 (Keep in Mind)Panasonic Viera
    3 what I think I want if the Hitachi doesnt cut it. Pioneer 435pdx

    Okay nobody has the Hitachi I can see, all the majors have crap feeds
    so you cant really judge. So Off I go to specialist (the works) reseller.

    There we see option 2 and 3. both had a dvd and the same scart lead feeding rgb. firstly the pioneer. Gutted!!! RubBish!! bit harsh. I dont think so
    what I watched was a demo disk actually intended for the panny, but anyhow
    what I noticed was what I can describe as shimmering, for example edges seemed to flicker but close ups of block colours were great, at 1 point there was a chair that had a sort of black and white lion print on it and I swear it looked like it was alive ( sorry btw I was actually looking at the model before 434) as the new one was in the box. I was devasted as I had read and understood that the 434 was a great monitor.

    I didnt even look toward the Hitachi a i thought if its cheaper it aint as good and this was bad enough and it was about 1500 quid more.

    We then took the same disk and put it into the viera what a difference, Id say this was acceptable, not great considering the package deal they were doin was 3700 with a dvd recorder and mount. but at 2400 of the net I thought it okay.

    OKay now the deliberation. I have got home had time to think and just watched a couple of hours on my Sony 28ws2u widescreen and I have to say
    it is far sharper and clearer and I have tweaked the colour up a bit now and I am finding it hard to justify 3K for something that isnt going to be as good to watch say standard terrestrial digital.

    Please somebody tell me. Am I being mis-shown these products. or would I be better going for say a big as they go standard crt television about 36"
    Is CRT better than plasma and LCD.

    I am typing this on a HP1230 21" CRT and this is better than any current flat screen I have seen so far. which is what makes me wonder about the television market. Albeit I do have a plank underneath my desk to support the god damn lump..

    Any help would be very much appreciated.

    Regards

    GrahamT.

    p.s I think I am right in thinking the choice for out and out picture quality between 34 and 42 is plasma, lcd, and crt. all the other follow rear projection crt projection and what ever other there may be..
     
  2. Twilliams

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    Hi graham
    I'm no expert, but i get the general impression from here that the PQ in any store is never as good as what can be reproduced at home, which i find very silly, but there ya go. plus ya can also gain extra PQ by having an expert come round and profes tune it in for you........I HOPE, because your general thoughts are mirrored here, what ya see in the shops is crap!
     
  3. hornydragon

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    go get a proper demo of a panny PHD7 Plasma £2.5k and superb needs more time effort and knowledge (search for Alis, HITACHI is not true 1024x1024 res) but gives much better results... add a scaler (iscan HD to that) and it will blow your socks off!!! Down sode is i know of only 4-5 places in the UK who have this kit on demo.....properly
     
  4. The Nightfly

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    Graham,

    I'm in a similar situation trying to justify replacing my 32" Sony Wega with someting bigger if the PQ is going to suffer. So far I've been very impressed with the Sony KDE-P37XS1 and KDE-P42XS1 plasmas which simply look like larger versions of the Sony CRT picture quality. I know they don't get rated highly here against Panasonic and Pioneer but I can only go by what I've seen so far in a sub-optimal environment (i.e Currys). In fact, I even went back to the shop to see if I wasn't imagining things first time round and I'm still convinced that in that setup and in those conditions the Sony is clearly better than the Panasonics, Pioneers, Hitachis, etc, in the store.

    The shop was playing a demo loop and one of the clips was from Garfield the movie. On the Sony, strands of Garfields hair were easy to make out but on a couple of Vieras (42 and 37") it was blurry in comparison almost like it was slightly out of focus whereas the Sony was crystal clear. I know contrast is meant to be a strong point of the Panasonics but on another clip showing a panning shot over New York looking down, the Sony showed all the detail right down the buildings all the way to street level which was in shadow. The Panasonics tended to loose the street detail in large areas of black. Also, during this shot I compared the black borders at the top of bottom of the image. On the Sony they were BLACK, blacker than on both Viera's, (which had a dark green tint) and at the same time the Sony's picture was brighter.

    I realise that the contrast comparisons are very much dependent on the picture settings and it would be easy to get these wrong in favour of the other panel but I think as far as the clarity and detail aspects are concerned this should be self evident providing the same feed was being used.

    I know a single shop demo can be fraught with problems so I popped into the local House of Fraser to see if I came to the same conclusion in a different setup. No Sony plasmas unfortunately but I did see a 42" Fujitsu which absolutely floored everything else in the shop. Again another ALIS panel.

    I really would like to go the Panasonic route. It's got a great reputation, I can get one that is just a bare display only and cost wise it's obviously very high in the VFM stakes. I just wish it didn't have to be an act of faith PQ wise.

    Perhaps I'm not viewing them correctly. Slightly tongue in cheek but could somebody tell me the sort of things to look for if I go to a shop and see a row of plasmas, all with identical feed, that would sort the wheat from the chaf.

    Allan
     
  5. fatbob

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    I wouldn't draw any conclusions from what I see on display in any shop, and that includes many specialist stores.

    I took delivery of a Panasonic PW6 this week, and when properly setup the picture is stunning. I've been looking at plasmas on the high street since they first began to appear in stores (around 1997) and can say in all honestly that in all that time I hadn't seen a single shop demo that even remotely approached the picture quality I'm enjoying at home.

    I was on the verge of buying a Toshiba PF3, but was only tempted to buy the Panasonic when I became aware that AV Sales were selling PW6's for only a little more than the Toshiba 36" set. I reasoned that any compromises in the plasmas' picture quality would be a worthwhile sacrifice to get a 42" screen into my system, but I need not have worried.

    I connected my dvd player via component, did a quick calibration with AVIA and was completely blown away by the picture quality. Had I of bought the Toshiba CRT, and then seen what this plasma is capable of, I would have been gutted :( .

    It's just a shame that there are so few dealers in the UK capable of showing just what these displays can do. Plasma displays must be one of the most poorly served products on the high street.
     
  6. Twilliams

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    please can somebody direct me to a place i can get hold of these Calibration dvd's that people talk about on here... also is it possible in my ignorance to damage the plasma when calibrating it myself?
     
  7. hornydragon

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  8. GrahamT

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    Thanks everbody. I think I am going to demo a PWd7 later on at a specialist Panasonic dealer, he reckons he can fit it up to a digi box and have a play
    so If I can get him down from his retail £2500 to somewhere the nearest 1775. I have seen I will be happy ( Ithink).

    Does anybody know where the cheapest retail shop sells this as they are more likely to match the price!!
     
  9. hornydragon

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    Ibet he fits a TUCT30 to the scart board..........(lol) where are you? as we might be abl;e to point you at a dealer who actually knows what they are doing with a panel....................
     
  10. MAW

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    Graham, your location would greatly help us send you somewhere to allay your fears. It's scarcely rocket science, but some suposedly specialist places are remarkably ignorant. Most decent specialists will do you anything from a kit of parts and telephone support to the full mony install.
     
  11. GrahamT

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    I am in Swansea, South Wales.
    thanks for the help.

    just asking my cousin has a trade account with a fujitsu dealer is there
    a better screen I read somewhere that there was a fuji that was the best ever seen when in fine mode (hhas 30 or somit like) I think the price I can get is about 2200 + vat.
     
  12. MAW

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    The fuji is ok if you like it, best ever might be overstating the case!
     
  13. lintonmac

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    Graham
    Don't let your experience in the stores put you off. A properly CONNECTED plasma with decent sources is outstanding. I just got the Hitachi 42PD5100 which I had seen displayed very badly (though I also saw it with a Star Wars dvd which looked great). What I did to test was to take my laptop in and play a dvd through it. I found it worked first time, and the results were just outstanding.

    Now I have it at home, connected with a Freeview decoder (Pace Twin PVR) via composite, cheap DVD player via composite, and one of two laptops via DVI or VGA. In all cases, the picture is great. Admittedly with Freeview you're going to see the limitations of the signal, but it is very good indeed (watched a bit of Arnie in 6th day last night and it was wonderful).

    With a PC, the picture is stunning - and it also works out as a good monitor too. I'm sure the results with the Pioneers and Panasonic HD's would be as good if not better (as Hitachi is not a real HD as mentioned here). I'm also sure that the lower def models from the decent names would still be just great as well fed with any sort of decent input.

    My recommendation is to somehow get your own source and take it in to a store that is prepared to let you connect it up. If they're not, then don't buy from them. A decent laptop (esp with DVI) is ideal for this.

    Ian
     
  14. Lizzard

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    Go see the Fujitsu with Alis panel or the Philips, they are truly brilliant, they are very famous in the U.S due to the higher picture quality they can achieve when properly calibrated.
     
  15. hornydragon

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    Swansea eh? was it Quinns who offered to do that demo???
    I might be able to point you at a decent location to demo......
     
  16. GrahamT

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    Whats the difference between these please!!

    TH42PW7B

    TH-42PHD7

    and are there any other pannys with a 7 in them I should know about ;)
     
  17. GrahamT

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    Funny enough I went to Quinns as the last call of the day, and it was the closest I could get to seeing the viera and the pioneer 43.

    I am going for a demo at something called shop@panasonic which is in Llanelli
    they say they are the only dealer in the area that can reapir them if they go wrong (there's only one place its going if it oes wrong ;) )
     
  18. hornydragon

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    well unless panny have changed policy (if so more places can repair them) Quinns are ok but they are about as specialised as my little finger........
     
  19. zoom

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    To answer the original question, with my 2ps worth, my purely personal opinion is that CRT still has the edge, especially on analogue signals. However a well set up plasma will give you a very good picture. Although 32"+ CRTs come with downsides of their own, slight bend in picutre, large size (constrains style), flicker if 50Hz.

    Unless you have a compelling reason to buy, it's a lot of money and you may end up not fully satisfied. I'd wait a year or two, prices WILL fall, quality WILL rise.
     
  20. lintonmac

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    Graham

    In answer to:
    >Whats the difference between these please!!
    >TH42PW7B
    >TH-42PHD7

    I'm nothing like the most knowledgeable here, but as no one else has answered:

    The PW7B is the latest Panasonic model with the traditional 853(?) x 480 resolution. This is fine for current TV and DVD in the main, but not "monitor quality" and not "HD-compatible" (though even higher resolution screens are not a 1:1 match for HD resolutions).

    The HD7 version is, you guessed it, a higher resolution "HD-compatible" screen, which has 1024 x 768 resolution. At first this doesn't sound like much more than the PW7B, but in fact if you do the maths, it's 92% more pixels! I understand that, assuming other things equal, you will get a better PQ with the higher res screens, IF the input signal is of high quality. Otherwise, you may not. Differences in scaling techniques can also result in the HD screens sometimes showing a worse picture.

    IMHO, a higher res screen is slightly better future-proofed for what comes down the line.

    Hope this helps a bit.
    Ian
     
  21. Repo

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    Just do what I did... spend months debating which plasma, viewing screens and reading the posts here...

    ... and then buy the 42PHD7 which I'd got my eye on in the first place :p
     
  22. hornydragon

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    PHD7 is Higher definition (more pixels) than the PW7
     
  23. GrahamT

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    LOL!! Thanks People.

    Okay. not far to go.

    I think PW7B cost 1775 unless there is a better deal
    Seems to do most things and if the picture can be as good as the viera
    cant be bad.


    maybe PHD7 coz its higher res.
    but the hiher res reulting in sometimes a poorer picture is worrying.

    or I can get the fujitsu P42HHS30ES for 2402.00
    Alis Panel, good for some things but I want to have PC connectivity
    especially for digital stills, and lets face it E-Bay. :)

    Am I right in thinking that pannys need some sort of scaler thingy to work.
    (and a connection board)

    BTW all i have to connect to it, is a crappy Yamada 6600 (yes I know its bad, but I wanted the divx) and a Pace digi box, the original with the card slot, both items can output rgb.
    I dont really care about the dvd as I can replace it later.

    Someone make my mind up for me LOL. main problem is I cant get a demo of a fuji. I just have to order it. what other alis panels are more common so I can see (is the hitachi pd5200 one)

    Thanks again peeps.
     
  24. GrahamT

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    Sorry to go on, but could someone tell me if instead of the money for say the fuji. and in light of my current equipement.

    Would it be better to maybe go for a pw7 and something like a scaler/video adaptor thingy to drive the best sinal possible into it and maybe a progressive scan dvd.

    What sort of price would this be, the extras, I dont want the Dogs (well I do)
    but something thats good before it gets extortionate.

    almost there :)
     
  25. kwijibo

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    This has, and always will be the case for nearly all the toys we love. My phone, PC, games console, ipod etc will all be better and cheaper in a years time.

    Better buy and enjoy the best of today than never buy.
     
  26. GrahamT

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    just when i think I am sorted. somit comes along. what about this deal..

    "With the optional video cards - sold separately at £200 - these plasmas are ready for the digital future with HDTV

    Buy now - PDP43MXE1 - £1699 " ex vat
     
  27. hornydragon

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    Panny do need a scaler just the right input noard.. almost every plasma will look beter with a good scaler attached go see a demo of the Pio SD panny and HD panny at the same place if possible and let your eyes decide........... unitl 1920x1080 screens are reasonable and HD broadcasts common etc i think an SD plasma for the next 3-4 years will be fine....
     
  28. imichael

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    Graham

    "BTW all i have to connect to it, is a crappy Yamada 6600 (yes I know its bad, but I wanted the divx)"

    If you are going to be blowing £2K on a screen you really need to consider changing the Yamada. I was happy with mine until I bought a Cambridge DVD300 (not a state of the art player by any means) and the step up in quality of both picture and sound is well worth it. Especially as I got the Cambridge from RS for £35.

    Seems a shame to have a state of the art screen and then have less than 5% of its' value invested in the devide you are plugging into it.

    Ian
     

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