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successful claims against YLOD

jnmercury00

Active Member
i recently had the ylod problem on my 'phat' ps3. I decided to send it off to a company called consolewerks in essex, i heard back from them and they claimed to have tried a reflow which didn't work.

I have since ordered a new slim. I was wondering how many people have successfully made a claim against the retailer who they bought their ps3 off of?

I recently claimed under the sale of goods act for my tv which went wrong, it took a while and had to pay for an engineers report which proved it was a fault which is inherent in the hardware and not my doing. i am thinking it's worth a try.

so, how many on here have got something out of the retailer they bought their ps3 off 3+ years ago?
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
Really it would be difficult to do that due to the company trying to repair it as it is no longer in the condition you bought it and the retailer could claim any damage was done by that company.

Really your best option would be to get that company that tried the reflow to give you the report that the thing was faulty.

Then send it off snail mail recorded delivery to the stores head office in London.

For the cost of a first class recorded stamp I would do it personally.
 

jnmercury00

Active Member
Really it would be difficult to do that due to the company trying to repair it as it is no longer in the condition you bought it and the retailer could claim any damage was done by that company.

Really your best option would be to get that company that tried the reflow to give you the report that the thing was faulty.

Then send it off snail mail recorded delivery to the stores head office in London.

For the cost of a first class recorded stamp I would do it personally.

yeah i do have a invoice regarding the reflow, will send a letter off tomorrow and report any developments on here.
 

D0TC0M

Standard Member
sony wont wanna know because the console is either out of warrenty or a 3rd party has opened and attempted a fix.
i dont think you will get a result but id love to hear what happens.
 

jnmercury00

Active Member
sony wont wanna know because the console is either out of warrenty or a 3rd party has opened and attempted a fix.
i dont think you will get a result but id love to hear what happens.

Well generally with these things you have to get a report to determine whether it is an inherent fault or if it's something I've done, which requires them to open her up anyway. Also my contract is with the retailer and not Sony who really should be ashamed of letting down people who have bought their console in good faith.


I can only try but I do fear that amazon will pass the buck.

First console in over 15 years that's gone wrong for me.
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
If the consolewerks company tried a reflow and could not get it to work it shows they don't know what they are doing but at the same time think they know what they are doing.

So if you be honest to that company and say you want to challenge Amazon and need an Engineers report to say the console was inherently faulty and you say that you sent it them them to try and fix it but couldn't so could could you confirm it was inherent fault that caused that YLOD and also offer to possibly pay them for putting it in writing.

I can be 90% sure that company will jump at the chance to do that.

Then with that just send it to Amazon and they should back down (you are legally in the right after all) and give you a replacement or pay for a repair by Sony; £128.
 

mbilejo

Active Member
sony wont wanna know because the console is either out of warrenty or a 3rd party has opened and attempted a fix.
i dont think you will get a result but id love to hear what happens.

Its nowt to do with Sony, its all about the retailer. They probably won't want to know, but that doesn't mean anything.

As its a SOGA issue, it can all the way to court where the retailer will not have the power to make a decision, the judge will! With expert testimony to prove that its a manufacturing fault, the only other issue is whether a PS3 should last longer than it has. And i'm pretty certain the judge will agree that a £350 console should last longer than 3 years.
 

jnmercury00

Active Member
well i have heard back from amazon. here is a copy of their reply:



My name is James Brazil and I represent the Executive Customer Relations Group within Amazon.co.uk and in this capacity, your recent letter to our head office has been brought to my attention. I am sorry to hear of the difficulty experienced with the Sony Playstation 3 console received in September 2007 from your order # 203-0073337-8553526. The European Directive 1999/44/EC allows for a claim to be taken (under certain circumstances) for a period up to two years in accordance with European Law, and up to six years under UK law (Sale of Goods Act).
This does not imply that an item has a warranty of two years or six years respectively. It merely permits an individual to make a claim under certain circumstances within that time period, e.g. should a fault be proved to have been inherent in the first six months. Amazon do not provide the warranty. We do, however, cover our obligations under the relevant legislation such as the Sales of Goods Act 1979 in the UK.
Under the Sale of Goods Act, a consumer is granted recourse against a seller of goods if those goods were defective at the time of purchase. This may include, in certain circumstances, repair, refund or replacement but only to the extent that doing so is not disproportionate to the value of the goods, having regard to the use the customer has already had of the goods and the nature of the goods. You purchased your product on the 5/9/07 and, until recently, have used it successfully and reported no fault with the product.
Given your satisfactory use of the product for a period of time which exceeded the manufacturer's warranty period, it is not established that the product did not conform to the contract (i.e. was defective) at the time of purchase. Amazon.co.uk is therefore not under an obligation to offer any additional assistance in repairing or replacing your product. Please note that the manufacturer is often in a better position than the retailer to deal with technical problems affecting their products. Therefore, should you wish to pursue this matter, we would encourage you to contact the manufacturer to see if they are able to provide you with any further assistance.
They may be in a position to offer a repair service or could provide you with information on relevant charges for an out of warranty repair. I am sorry for any disappointment this order has caused. We hope to have a chance to serve you again in the future.

sounds to me like they are trying to pass the buck. any ideas what i should do next?

cheers.
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
sounds to me like they are trying to pass the buck. any ideas what i should do next?

cheers.

Just write back to this guy stating the YLOD is indicative of a inherent fault with the console.

There is nothing you could do to cause a YLOD, by its nature it only presents itself when the console is inherently faulty, and you have it confirmed by the repair shop in writing the console was inherently faulty (I presume you got that in writing from them?).

Therefore say you have 14 days to act within the law or if you refuse, or I do not hear back from you within 14 days you will be forced to submit a claim to your local county court for breach of contact as stipulated inside the Sale of Goods Act 1982. (Its a breach of contract case you would be bringing against Amazon).
 

RottenFox

Distinguished Member
Amazon do not provide the warranty = would lead me to believe they are acting as Agent for manufacturer.

Now they are a retailer/trader/seller??

Please note that the manufacturer is often in a better position than the retailer to deal with technical problems



I like how at the beginning they say they do not provide the warranty on the item, yet later on, class themselves as the retailer, which would indicate they bear responsibility to you, in your claim for damages, albeit you will be better off getting an engineers report stating that the fault, even though not apparent, would have been in situ, ala a ticking time bomb, yet at the beginning of the email, they appear to be classed as "agents", which in that case, wouldn't that point you towards the manufacturer for any recompense.

If they are an agent for the manufacturer, and not a retailer, then would you have to pursue Sony, for a repair?

If they are a retailer, then your contract as stated above, is with them, for the period laid out, by law, in regards, repair/replacement/damages.

Q6. Is it true that I have to complain to the manufacturer?

No. You bought the goods from the trader, not the manufacturer, and the trader is liable for any breaches of contract (unless he was acting as the manufacturer's agent).
 

Brooktop

Active Member
I had exactly the same issue with amazon as have others. Got £60 credit in the end. I wish somebody would have the balls to take a retailer to court, set a precedent and then the flood gates would open. Ylod is normally the same solder issue as xbox rrod. At least Microsoft offer a 3 yr warranty against rrod now due to public and media pressure.
 

codnchips

Standard Member
I had exactly the same issue with amazon as have others. Got £60 credit in the end. I wish somebody would have the balls to take a retailer to court, set a precedent and then the flood gates would open. Ylod is normally the same solder issue as xbox rrod. At least Microsoft offer a 3 yr warranty against rrod now due to public and media pressure.

I don't think it's a matter of not having "the balls" - it's more not having "the money"! :) I've got a broken PS3 and I HATE the fact that the most expensive console that I've ever owned has had the shortest f**king life!

The world has gone mad. :facepalm:
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
I don't think it's a matter of not having "the balls" - it's more not having "the money"! :)
No its because every case gets settled outside of court.

The cost of properly defending a claim will literally be in the range of 50 thousand for a store if they hired a solicitor (which of course they will); the going private rate for a solicitor in the UK is £120 per hour, now think how long it will take to defend a claim writing letters, attending pretrial hearings etc.

So compare that to a £300 console.

Even if they truly believe you do not have a case the costs of defending the claim are disproportionate to the amount of claim so they just settle.

And if you settle you sign confidentiality agreements meaning you cannot say anything to anyone that you settled.

Regarding stores you have to just show them that you are prepared to take them to court, and that you know what you are talking about and they will immediately back down and give you what you are wanting.

Showing you do not know what you are talking about means they do not take you seriously when you start talking about small claims etc.
 
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boristhespie

Active Member
out of warranty

That statement means sod all. "Expected lifespan" and "fit for purpose" on the otherhand means absolutely everything.

Opening it up however trumps all three.

RE Amazon, they have duty to the customer with whom they entered a contract when selling item, it is NOT acceptable for retailers to fob off customers with the old chestnut of "contact manufacturer", your contract is with Amazon NOT Sony.

However you have to be careful now that they are allowing third parties to sell through their website. (Some of which is NOT at all clear).

In this case Amazon, like play, ebay, etc are acting as a conduit.

They could be agency or simply the provider of infrastructure for selling. If bought direct from Amazon, they can say what they like re warranties but in the end they have no leg to stand on if they do not meet the Sale of Goods act and the rights of consumers.

You'll notice that all references to manufacturers warranties and extended guarantees all have reference to "This does not affect your statutory rights". They have to say this legally as these actually are what are important.

Guarantees/Warranties are just a system created by retailers in cahoots with manufacturers to try and bamboozal consumers into thinking they have less rights than they actually do.

The one year guarantee is created by them to try and head off problems which could arise. Most people fall for it and simple give up, buying more of the product instead. But all products have an "expected lifespan" and computers if I recall is something like 5-6 years. It could be argued that this is not even long enough. This exists regardless of any protestations by Amazon to contrary.

It all comes down to knowing your rights and pushing for them in a calm and authoritive manner. I once stood in a Dixons for 2 hours going through each level of staff to get a refund on a new Amiga 1200 which went tits up.

Everyone, customers and staff, in the shop looked, the atmosphere was electric. Some people were uncomfortable but I stuck to my guns and calmly argued my case citing law and in the end got my money back from the manager. 2 hours. He knew he had no leg to stand on, why refund me if he did, but still tried to fob me off with repair. Stick up for yourself.

Re engineers report. I would love one of these for the laser on a ps3. If it could be proved there was inferior components used in the blue ray then Sony would be knackered.
 
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jnmercury00

Active Member
Thanks for all the advice guys, some real good advice here!

Just waiting to hear back from consumer direct then I will put another letter together.

What is annoying me is all the threads where people are saying how their ps3 has given up and they have played into sonys hands by getting a Refurb!

Maybe if more people forced the retailer's hands then Sony might get some serious grief In the future.



Will write back on here when I hear back from amazon.
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
What is annoying me is all the threads where people are saying how their ps3 has given up and they have played into sonys hands by getting a Refurb!

Maybe if more people forced the retailer's hands then Sony might get some serious grief In the future.
Best way to give grief to Sony, and what I would recommend is if they did get a repair by Sony for £128 then you can hold them accountable if it then breaks down in a year or so later with the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

If I had a 60GB I would be prepared to pay the £128 with that assurance at mind.
 

bonzobanana

Well-known Member
I reckon there is a case to be made against the original 60GB model and the very early 40GB models. I reckon the original 60GB is over 10% failure rate and the very early 40GB models were failing due to laser failure, a dutch retailer claimed 40% failure. So I think you could make a claim on those for a defective design with an inherent reliability issue because of it. Not in the same way as the early 360s though but still a very strong case.
 

jnmercury00

Active Member
Hi,

i have yet to hear back from consumer direct about this so have given up on them. I have just drafted a quick letter to send to amazon soon. take a look:

Dear James,



Thank you for your email on the 24th of January 2011. With regards to the faulty play station 3 console. ‘The yellow light of death' as it is commonly known affects early ps3 models, specifically mine. It is an inherent fault within the console and it is not something caused by myself the consumer, so it was indeed inherently faulty from day one as it was just a matter of time before the console failed to operate. As the retailer it is your obligation to honour your contract with me the consumer.
you have 14 days to act within the law or if you refuse, or I do not hear back from you within 14 days you will be forced to submit a claim to your local county court for breach of contact as stipulated inside the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

if anyone has any advise on the content of the letter/anything i should add change then let me know!

i don't have an engineers report as yet but i can quite easily obtain one if needed from a company i know of.

hopefully i can get this sent off this weekend:)

thanks!
 

chipchomper

Active Member
Hi,

you have 14 days to act within the law or if you refuse, or I do not hear back from you within 14 days you will be forced to submit a claim to your local county court for breach of contact as stipulated inside the Sale of Goods Act 1979.
if anyone has any advise on the content of the letter/anything i should add change then let me know!

i don't have an engineers report as yet but i can quite easily obtain one if needed from a company i know of.

hopefully i can get this sent off this weekend:)

thanks!

playstation is one word

you in bold should be "I" Im guessing.

good luck btw
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
You need to mention the parts of the Sale of Goods act they are in breach of.

I would just copy and paste the quick facts of it that apply to your claim.
 
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jnmercury00

Active Member
Funnily enough consumer direct have got back to me today. They are echoing what has been said here, looks like I will have to spell it out in black and White to them.
Will write again when I hear back. Should I email the guy from amazon that emailed me or write a letter by snail mail?
 

AnthonyG

Distinguished Member
Funnily enough consumer direct have got back to me today. They are echoing what has been said here, looks like I will have to spell it out in black and White to them.
Will write again when I hear back. Should I email the guy from amazon that emailed me or write a letter by snail mail?

Snail mail it recorded delivery.

All I would do is quote the key facts of the SOGA1982, make it clear that you know they are the SOGA 1982 key facts and they are being stated to make it clear of Amazons requirements.

http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• For up to six years after purchase purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, can request a repair or replacement.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

I would substantiate it with the YLOD by its nature is indicative of an inherent fault and there is nothing that you could do to cause the console to YLOD.

And also that a Playstation console was designed to last 10 years; there is a quote by someone at Sony saying such (find it and quote it), and regardless there is no way the one, two, three years you have had yours is a reasonable lifetime of a £425 RRP console (quote the then RRP when you bought it not current).

Find any reports from Sony about YLOD being a fault you cannot cause yourself, then quote that.

Edit: Here is is

SCEA president Kaz Hirai has predicted that the PlayStation 3's life cycle will last for 10 years,

You will be twisting its meaning a little bit, but it does imply that the console will last this long when bought.
 
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figoagogo

Distinguished Member
Best way to give grief to Sony, and what I would recommend is if they did get a repair by Sony for £128 then you can hold them accountable if it then breaks down in a year or so later with the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

If I had a 60GB I would be prepared to pay the £128 with that assurance at mind.

When my first PS3 YLODed (after 13months) Sony very swiftly, swapped it for a new one, no hassle, free of charge, all within days - saved me going to the retailer. This is going back a few years.

The replacement then YLODed after about another year... and this is where it got problematic, Sony would not budge, it took several phones call and recorded letters. The retailer wouldn't help as they didn't supply the replacement. In the end I gave up and bought a slim (Sold the Phat for fix/spares).

I am normally pretty confident in fighting these things, even tool a kitchen supplier to small claims and won. However Sony seemed so hard faced, and consistent, and considering the value it did not seem worth my time, and I had some spare chash to get a Slim.

I think if someone took them on, they would win - its clear to me there IS a problem with the older 60GB and possible 40GB/80GB (a lot show up on Ebay as YLODed). The "self" fix works, and shows that the problem is inherent in the design.

Bad on Sony, I have had all sorts of consoles/ handhelds / pc / tv / hifi, none of which have failed in such a short time, or met with such a poor response.
 

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