Subwoofer upgrade advice please (or AVR?) for large room

[dipsettt]

Hi everyone, I need some upgrade advice please. Attached is a rough layout of the room. It is a large area (approx 86m squared) and I also listen to music when in the garden by opening up one or two of the bifold doors (opposite end of the speakers).

I listen to music approx 80% of the time and 20% for Netflix and movies. I have a 3.1 setup with the following equipment:
denon AVR X2300
Dali Opticon 8 MK1
Dali Zensor vokal (will upgrade to opticon vokal eventually)
REL T9i subwoofer (10in + 10in passive, 300 watt)

this forum has helped me out with previous issues and so I’m hoping for some more useful advice.

the bass is really lacking when watching movies and even with music there is no sofa shaking bass. If I concentrate real hard then I get a tickle from the sofa but nothing more. Also, when I do crank the volume up on occasions (when the kids aren’t home or when listening to music from the garden) the subwoofer tends to struggle to give more output. I do like the sound of the bass from the REL but I don’t think it is powerful enough to pressurise the room. Therefore I am looking to upgrade my sub. I’m mindful that my AVR isn’t great (no pre outs) and so happy for someone to sway my decision and put money towards a new AVR instead (but I can’t see how that will fix the bass issue). Further down the line I would probably look for a new AVR and a separate stereo amp for the fronts. Surrounds are out of the question at the moment as my kids are young and will likely knock anything over that is on a stand and wall mounting isn’t going to be easy.

budget is around £2800 but I don’t necessarily want to spend it all as the AVR etc will need upgrading soon.

Options I’m thinking of and rough prices:
1. Arendal 1723 2V £2,300
2. Dual Arendal 1723 1V £2,800
3. SVS PB 4000 £2,250
4. Dual SVS PB 3000 £3,100
5. SVS PB16 Ultra £3,000
6. Dual BK Monolith plus £1,200 which leaves money for new AVR (say Denon X4500 second hand)

on the subject of the dual options above with SVS and Arendal (not BK), I do think dual would be better than a more premium single subwoofer. However, I am slightly leaning towards getting the more premium single subwoofer in the hope that I would be able to go dual in the near future rather than going dual now with a lower bracket subwoofer and then wanting to upgrade them both in the future.

I would love to know whether people think dual BKs are powerful enough to pressurise the room and how they sound with music. I have heard great things about BK on the value for money front. Just wondering if the extra money for Arendal/SVS is worth it (I’m aware doubling the price doesn’t mean double the performance).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Kapkirk]

I'm surprised that you are not getting REAL bass from that REL sub in your setup. I run a simple home made 8 Inch dual ported sub with a BK BSBP 275 panel amp and I cant even use it anywhere near its max power setting in my 16 x 13ft room, although my sofa is up against the back wall which helps, but I suppose we all have different expectations on what to expect from a sub.
I would have thought BK XXLS400-FF would be more than enough let alone a Monolith or even an SVS PB2000 especially with those Opticon 8's, are you sure your REL is working/configured properly?
TBH I would not want to be spending more than 1200-1500 on a sub but that's just me.

​

 

[kbfern]

You have a huge room and also expecting to hear strong bass inside & outside when in the garden with the windows open, it ain't gonna happen.

I am sure that with the right choice of 2 or more subs you can get a substantial improvement on the REL you have now, which 2 I will leave others to comment.

 

[Gasp3621]

I'm surprised that you are not getting REAL bass from that REL sub in your setup. I run a simple home made 8 Inch dual ported sub with a BK BSBP 275 panel amp and I cant even use it anywhere near its max power setting in my 16 x 13ft room, although my sofa is up against the back wall which helps, but I suppose we all have different expectations on what to expect from a sub.
I would have thought BK XXLS400-FF would be more than enough let alone a Monolith or even an SVS PB2000 especially with those Opticon 8's, are you sure your REL is working/configured properly?
TBH I would not want to be spending more than 1200-1500 on a sub but that's just me.

​

He has approx 5x times the total room size vs. yours so the tiny REL is going to struggle big time when pushed and it won´t even play low enough for blockbuster movies.

 

[Gasp3621]

View attachment 1473125

Hi everyone, I need some upgrade advice please. Attached is a rough layout of the room. It is a large area (approx 86m squared) and I also listen to music when in the garden by opening up one or two of the bifold doors (opposite end of the speakers).

I listen to music approx 80% of the time and 20% for Netflix and movies. I have a 3.1 setup with the following equipment:
denon AVR X2300
Dali Opticon 8 MK1
Dali Zensor vokal (will upgrade to opticon vokal eventually)
REL T9i subwoofer (10in + 10in passive, 300 watt)

this forum has helped me out with previous issues and so I’m hoping for some more useful advice.

the bass is really lacking when watching movies and even with music there is no sofa shaking bass. If I concentrate real hard then I get a tickle from the sofa but nothing more. Also, when I do crank the volume up on occasions (when the kids aren’t home or when listening to music from the garden) the subwoofer tends to struggle to give more output. I do like the sound of the bass from the REL but I don’t think it is powerful enough to pressurise the room. Therefore I am looking to upgrade my sub. I’m mindful that my AVR isn’t great (no pre outs) and so happy for someone to sway my decision and put money towards a new AVR instead (but I can’t see how that will fix the bass issue). Further down the line I would probably look for a new AVR and a separate stereo amp for the fronts. Surrounds are out of the question at the moment as my kids are young and will likely knock anything over that is on a stand and wall mounting isn’t going to be easy.

budget is around £2800 but I don’t necessarily want to spend it all as the AVR etc will need upgrading soon.

Options I’m thinking of and rough prices:
1. Arendal 1723 2V £2,300
2. Dual Arendal 1723 1V £2,800
3. SVS PB 4000 £2,250
4. Dual SVS PB 3000 £3,100
5. SVS PB16 Ultra £3,000
6. Dual BK Monolith plus £1,200 which leaves money for new AVR (say Denon X4500 second hand)

on the subject of the dual options above with SVS and Arendal (not BK), I do think dual would be better than a more premium single subwoofer. However, I am slightly leaning towards getting the more premium single subwoofer in the hope that I would be able to go dual in the near future rather than going dual now with a lower bracket subwoofer and then wanting to upgrade them both in the future.

I would love to know whether people think dual BKs are powerful enough to pressurise the room and how they sound with music. I have heard great things about BK on the value for money front. Just wondering if the extra money for Arendal/SVS is worth it (I’m aware doubling the price doesn’t mean double the performance).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

I would consider getting one PB3000 or Arendal 1723 1V now and new receiver as you wanted it so something like Marantz SR6015 most likely as your use is more toward music listening. The prices are sky high atm for receivers, but if you need to buy one then no way around that. When funds allow add 2nd PB3000/Arendal.

Marantz SR6015 Silver 9.2 Channel AV Receiver at AV.com

Marantz SR6015 Silver 9.2 Channel AV Receiver at AV.com

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

You can get SVS PB3000 for 1316£ as new grade-b with just outside box damaged, the product is in mint condition and full warranty. Seems these are guaranteed in stock so SVS has given AVO many of these.

SVS PB3000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Ebay at AV.com

SVS PB3000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Ebay at AV.com

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

1316£ + 1200£ = 2516£


Monoprice 15THX would be even better in filling that space, but there is now question marks about the availability. This model has basically similar performance to SVS PB4000 and Arendal 1723 2V for the price of 1200£ which may change. It´s massive box and heavy though, but otherwise very typical example of what people in US choose for a similar size room of yours (often duals). Can be played in sealed mode and THX Ultra certified it guarantees very low distortion and superb performance to fill larger spaces!

Monolith 15

15" 1000w RMS, THX ULTRA SPEC SUB - LIMITED WAREHOUSE STOCK Apply our AmericanAudioClub discount code to pay less than £1450.00 DoubleBubble Deal - Order a Pair & save 10% (applied automatically at checkout) The Monolith™ THX® certified subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low...

americanaudioco.uk

Monoprice Monolith 15” THX Ultra Subwoofer Review

At last! It's here! Our review of Monoprice's monster subwoofer, the Monolith 15" THX Ultra! This 130 lb. beast might look like it's all muscle, but there's at least as much brains as there is brawn.

www.audioholics.com

 

[dipsettt]

I'm surprised that you are not getting REAL bass from that REL sub in your setup. I run a simple home made 8 Inch dual ported sub with a BK BSBP 275 panel amp and I cant even use it anywhere near its max power setting in my 16 x 13ft room, although my sofa is up against the back wall which helps, but I suppose we all have different expectations on what to expect from a sub.
I would have thought BK XXLS400-FF would be more than enough let alone a Monolith or even an SVS PB2000 especially with those Opticon 8's, are you sure your REL is working/configured properly?
TBH I would not want to be spending more than 1200-1500 on a sub but that's just me.

​

Hi Kapkirk, the REL is definitely working and configured properly. I've pushed it enough for it to wobble itself across the floor and move out of position. As Gasp mentioned, the room is large and the REL just doesn't seem capable of filling it out and the real low frequency is missing too.

I would consider getting one PB3000 or Arendal 1723 1V now and new receiver as you wanted it so something like Marantz SR6015 most likely as your use is more toward music listening. The prices are sky high atm for receivers, but if you need to buy one then no way around that. When funds allow add 2nd PB3000/Arendal.

Marantz SR6015 Silver 9.2 Channel AV Receiver at AV.com

Marantz SR6015 Silver 9.2 Channel AV Receiver at AV.com

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

You can get SVS PB3000 for 1316£ as new grade-b with just outside box damaged, the product is in mint condition and full warranty. Seems these are guaranteed in stock so SVS has given AVO many of these.

SVS PB3000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Ebay at AV.com

SVS PB3000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Ebay at AV.com

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

1316£ + 1200£ = 2516£


Monoprice 15THX would be even better in filling that space, but there is now question marks about the availability. This model has basically similar performance to SVS PB4000 and Arendal 1723 2V for the price of 1200£ which may change. It´s massive box and heavy though, but otherwise very typical example of what people in US choose for a similar size room of yours (often duals). Can be played in sealed mode and THX Ultra certified it guarantees very low distortion and superb performance to fill larger spaces!

Monolith 15

15" 1000w RMS, THX ULTRA SPEC SUB - LIMITED WAREHOUSE STOCK Apply our AmericanAudioClub discount code to pay less than £1450.00 DoubleBubble Deal - Order a Pair & save 10% (applied automatically at checkout) The Monolith™ THX® certified subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low...

americanaudioco.uk

Monoprice Monolith 15” THX Ultra Subwoofer Review

At last! It's here! Our review of Monoprice's monster subwoofer, the Monolith 15" THX Ultra! This 130 lb. beast might look like it's all muscle, but there's at least as much brains as there is brawn.

www.audioholics.com

Thanks Gasp, i'm going to have to read up on the Marantz AVR as i have only really looked at Denon in the past. But it makes more sense for me to go down the Marantz route given i mostly listen to music and Marantz are meant to be more musical than Denon's.

I've recently read up on the Monolith 15THX on other threads but as you say....there doesn't appear to be any availability.

on the subject of the SVS PB3000 vs Arendal 1V - is there any real difference in performance? from what i understand, the SVS will give more output in the really low frequencies but the Arendal is more dynamic and more accurate. The SVS has an app but the Arendal is only app ready....but like most people say, once i have it all set up i cant imagine i will be playing around with settings via the app often (but it is a nice option to have). If there isn't a lot between them on the performance front (and the price is fairly similar), i might be swayed by the Arendal based on looks as i know the wife hates the look of the SVS ports. happy to be convinced the SVS is a much better performer.

On the Arendals, does anyone know if there are any additional fees/taxes to be paid above the advertised price?


thanks in advance!

 

[Kapkirk]

He has approx 5x times the total room size vs. yours so the tiny REL is going to struggle big time when pushed and it won´t even play low enough for blockbuster movies.

D'oh.. of course.. I should have looked at the size of that space instead of concentrating on the shape, well it was late when I replied.

 

[MI55ION]

Hi Kapkirk, the REL is definitely working and configured properly. I've pushed it enough for it to wobble itself across the floor and move out of position. As Gasp mentioned, the room is large and the REL just doesn't seem capable of filling it out and the real low frequency is missing too.



Thanks Gasp, i'm going to have to read up on the Marantz AVR as i have only really looked at Denon in the past. But it makes more sense for me to go down the Marantz route given i mostly listen to music and Marantz are meant to be more musical than Denon's.

I've recently read up on the Monolith 15THX on other threads but as you say....there doesn't appear to be any availability.

on the subject of the SVS PB3000 vs Arendal 1V - is there any real difference in performance? from what i understand, the SVS will give more output in the really low frequencies but the Arendal is more dynamic and more accurate. The SVS has an app but the Arendal is only app ready....but like most people say, once i have it all set up i cant imagine i will be playing around with settings via the app often (but it is a nice option to have). If there isn't a lot between them on the performance front (and the price is fairly similar), i might be swayed by the Arendal based on looks as i know the wife hates the look of the SVS ports. happy to be convinced the SVS is a much better performer.

On the Arendals, does anyone know if there are any additional fees/taxes to be paid above the advertised price?


thanks in advance!

I'd be a little patient if possible and see what happens with the Monoprice. Dual Monolith 15s would be perfect for that space.

Alternatively grab a large 18" from PSA with a view to adding another later.

If you're feeling adventurous some of the larger Rythmik subs offer great bang for buck. Rythmik Audio • Direct Servo subwoofer products

 

[Furnace Inferno]

View attachment 1473125

Hi everyone, I need some upgrade advice please. Attached is a rough layout of the room. It is a large area (approx 86m squared) and I also listen to music when in the garden by opening up one or two of the bifold doors (opposite end of the speakers).

I listen to music approx 80% of the time and 20% for Netflix and movies. I have a 3.1 setup with the following equipment:
denon AVR X2300
Dali Opticon 8 MK1
Dali Zensor vokal (will upgrade to opticon vokal eventually)
REL T9i subwoofer (10in + 10in passive, 300 watt)

this forum has helped me out with previous issues and so I’m hoping for some more useful advice.

the bass is really lacking when watching movies and even with music there is no sofa shaking bass. If I concentrate real hard then I get a tickle from the sofa but nothing more. Also, when I do crank the volume up on occasions (when the kids aren’t home or when listening to music from the garden) the subwoofer tends to struggle to give more output. I do like the sound of the bass from the REL but I don’t think it is powerful enough to pressurise the room. Therefore I am looking to upgrade my sub. I’m mindful that my AVR isn’t great (no pre outs) and so happy for someone to sway my decision and put money towards a new AVR instead (but I can’t see how that will fix the bass issue). Further down the line I would probably look for a new AVR and a separate stereo amp for the fronts. Surrounds are out of the question at the moment as my kids are young and will likely knock anything over that is on a stand and wall mounting isn’t going to be easy.

budget is around £2800 but I don’t necessarily want to spend it all as the AVR etc will need upgrading soon.

Options I’m thinking of and rough prices:
1. Arendal 1723 2V £2,300
2. Dual Arendal 1723 1V £2,800
3. SVS PB 4000 £2,250
4. Dual SVS PB 3000 £3,100
5. SVS PB16 Ultra £3,000
6. Dual BK Monolith plus £1,200 which leaves money for new AVR (say Denon X4500 second hand)

on the subject of the dual options above with SVS and Arendal (not BK), I do think dual would be better than a more premium single subwoofer. However, I am slightly leaning towards getting the more premium single subwoofer in the hope that I would be able to go dual in the near future rather than going dual now with a lower bracket subwoofer and then wanting to upgrade them both in the future.

I would love to know whether people think dual BKs are powerful enough to pressurise the room and how they sound with music. I have heard great things about BK on the value for money front. Just wondering if the extra money for Arendal/SVS is worth it (I’m aware doubling the price doesn’t mean double the performance).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

I’ve got my sub packed up ready to sell which is near to your budget and more in line with Rel in terms of being designed to integrate seamlessly into music based systems, unlike Rel’s though it can also dig deep. It’s a JL Fathom F212v1

I’ve got it in a room probably about the size of your kitchen and then open to our kitchen which is about 4x3m and also the hallway/rest of the house, even with the doors open to the garden it has no issues pressurising the room. I only run it at just below 1/3 volume (in fact looking at my pics it’s only 1/2 of reference so 1/4 of fully maxed) and Audyssey still knocked off another 7.0dB!

I reckon it would have a good crack at your room but it’s an expensive proposition to not be 100% sure. Whereabouts are you based, if you are local we could always go for an in-room test if you were interested and happy to move 100kg of sub?

 

[Mr Wolf]

At about 7300CuFt this is obviously a very large space to pressurise with bass. If you haven't seen it, you might find Audioholics' subwoofer "Bassaholic" room size ratings useful as a guide to the type of output you're looking for. AH class anything over 5000CuFt as an "Extreme" room. While AH haven't tested an Arendal 1723 1V, they did test a SVS PB-3000 and it got an "Extreme" room rating in ported mode.

Bassaholic Subwoofer Room Size Rating Protocol

I was also looking for a pair of new subs recently (£3k max total budget) and last week pulled the trigger on a pair of PB-3000s which hopefully should arrive today. As part of my research I tabulated some CEA2010 test data for the Arendal 1723 1V, SVS PB-2000 Pro and SVS PB-3000 as they were all on my shortlist. Here it is:

I considered the most critical output range for me was probably 20Hz-63Hz and in this area the Arendal was (to my surprise) outgunned by the cheaper PB-2000 Pro.

Obviously there's far more to it than these stats but, depending on your listening levels, as your area is so large the SPL output probably needs to be a priority consideration to avoid disappointment (which unfortunately is something I've experienced before by under-speccing a sub purchase).

Anyway, I hope this helps with your decision making.

 

[Mr Wolf]

I should have probably added that, as the two SVS models both have forward facing ports, they may be advantaged over the Arendal under the CEA2010 testing protcol but I presume this should only be around the port tuning frequency.

 

[Gasp3621]

Chris @AmericanAudio could hopefully keep you informed about the Monolith 15THX availability when it becomes clear. That model would be a no brainer otherwise cause closest competitors are 1k£ more expensive. AVSForum has more owner thoughts, but what i remember generally from them is that they sound slightly different than other brands when compared side by side and in positive way. Also zero port chuffing reported.

 

[Mr Wolf]

I seriously like the look of those 15" THX Monos and very nearly went that route. And not just for their price - their build quality looks superb. I even like their industrial look.

My main concern with them was how their 5 year warranty would be supported in practice without the benefit of a UK distributor. Also, I tend to keep my AV gear a very long time and I'm far more confident that in say 10 year's time I'll be able to source a compatible replacement driver for an SVS sub if the original one dies. The Mono's massive weight was also a negative for me, especially as my dedicated cinema room is located on my 2nd floor...my lower back's smarting just thinking about it.

The SVS App also became a bigger attraction the more I looked into it. I think that having programmable preset modes might prove to be really useful. I already have presets configured on my Yamaha AVR (one each for action movies, non-action movies and music) with different X-overs, sub-gain and EQ combinations so I may end up creating corresponding presets on the SVS App to go with them.

My room is only 2,600CuFt so the extra output Monos would provide over the PB3Ks was less of an issue for me as in practice I should effectively have limitless SPL. That said, if I had a 7,300CuFt room to fill then the mahoosive output capability of the Monos would be extremely appealing.

 

[Mr Wolf]

I don't generally like this guy's review videos but, if you haven't seen it, it's still worth a look as these three subs either are or should be on your short list:

 

[AmericanAudio]

Just waiting on shipping times from Europe, we should be quicker than the 3 weeks quoted on the retails site, as we can import using our VAT and EORI details.

Then we will bring in a batch of 12" and 15" for customers (some who have been kind enough to pre-order)

I also have an warranty statement, which I will puplish here when I find the right place.

 

[dipsettt]

I would consider getting one PB3000 or Arendal 1723 1V now and new receiver as you wanted it so something like Marantz SR6015 most likely as your use is more toward music listening. The prices are sky high atm for receivers, but if you need to buy one then no way around that. When funds allow add 2nd PB3000/Arendal.

Marantz SR6015 Silver 9.2 Channel AV Receiver at AV.com

Marantz SR6015 Silver 9.2 Channel AV Receiver at AV.com

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

You can get SVS PB3000 for 1316£ as new grade-b with just outside box damaged, the product is in mint condition and full warranty. Seems these are guaranteed in stock so SVS has given AVO many of these.

SVS PB3000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Ebay at AV.com

SVS PB3000 Black Ash Subwoofer - Ebay at AV.com

www.audiovisualonline.co.uk

1316£ + 1200£ = 2516£


Monoprice 15THX would be even better in filling that space, but there is now question marks about the availability. This model has basically similar performance to SVS PB4000 and Arendal 1723 2V for the price of 1200£ which may change. It´s massive box and heavy though, but otherwise very typical example of what people in US choose for a similar size room of yours (often duals). Can be played in sealed mode and THX Ultra certified it guarantees very low distortion and superb performance to fill larger spaces!

Monolith 15

15" 1000w RMS, THX ULTRA SPEC SUB - LIMITED WAREHOUSE STOCK Apply our AmericanAudioClub discount code to pay less than £1450.00 DoubleBubble Deal - Order a Pair & save 10% (applied automatically at checkout) The Monolith™ THX® certified subwoofer sets the standard for bass output, low...

americanaudioco.uk

Monoprice Monolith 15” THX Ultra Subwoofer Review

At last! It's here! Our review of Monoprice's monster subwoofer, the Monolith 15" THX Ultra! This 130 lb. beast might look like it's all muscle, but there's at least as much brains as there is brawn.

www.audioholics.com

@AmericanAudio using the link in Gasps response.....are the Monolith 15’s back in stock already?

I have to say, I’ve looked at some more reviews online and I’m getting more and more tempted with the Monoprice. Will need to measure out the footprint in my room but I’m sure there will be space and I’m tempted to go dual (Thanks @MI55ION) but might see how I get on with one to start with....I do know there are peaks and nulls in my room though. But that way I get to invest in a better AVR too.

I’ve got my sub packed up ready to sell which is near to your budget and more in line with Rel in terms of being designed to integrate seamlessly into music based systems, unlike Rel’s though it can also dig deep. It’s a JL Fathom F212v1

I’ve got it in a room probably about the size of your kitchen and then open to our kitchen which is about 4x3m and also the hallway/rest of the house, even with the doors open to the garden it has no issues pressurising the room. I only run it at just below 1/3 volume (in fact looking at my pics it’s only 1/2 of reference so 1/4 of fully maxed) and Audyssey still knocked off another 7.0dB!

I reckon it would have a good crack at your room but it’s an expensive proposition to not be 100% sure. Whereabouts are you based, if you are local we could always go for an in-room test if you were interested and happy to move 100kg of sub?

Thanks for the offer but that is way out of budget and the thought of shifting 100kg is daunting. My room is a level below the ground floor so any heavy sub is going to be a challenge to get into position.

@Mr Wolf thanks for the advice and the output tables. it was interesting to see the comparison to the arendal. At this point though I am leaning towards the Monoprice for the extra output and the great value for money.

I’ll mull over this a little more. Might have to slowly break the news to the wife as I can’t say she is going to be happy with the look and size of the Monoprice

 

[kbfern]

Chris from AA has stated the Mono THX subs and THX speakers come with a 5 yr warranty, this is now shown on the Mono subs thread (last page)

Monolith by Monoprice 2x10" or 1x12" or 1x15"

Right now we are experiencing issues with shipping of the 15-inch subs again. Seems like a nightmare with no end. We were told it is possible to ship, and now we are having problem to ship the big ones again. We are looking for options right now and all orders of the 15-inch subs are delayed...

www.avforums.com

The Mono 15 is an awesome sub for the money and even at the new higher price now't else can touch it.

 

[kbfern]

If you want one by the way they will be in shortish supply as he will probably only be bringing in 4 at a time of each size. So get an order in quick to avoid disappointment.

 

[dipsettt]

If you want one by the way they will be in shortish supply as he will probably only be bringing in 4 at a time of each size. So get an order in quick to avoid disappointment.

I missed the boat

but I’ve confirmed I’ll buy on the next order which should be soon just have to sit tight and wait for the Monolith 15 to arrive. Thanks everyone for all your input. Much appreciated.

Time to switch my focus onto a new AVR....

 

[Satpalbhai]

View attachment 1473125

Hi everyone, I need some upgrade advice please. Attached is a rough layout of the room. It is a large area (approx 86m squared) and I also listen to music when in the garden by opening up one or two of the bifold doors (opposite end of the speakers).

I listen to music approx 80% of the time and 20% for Netflix and movies. I have a 3.1 setup with the following equipment:
denon AVR X2300
Dali Opticon 8 MK1
Dali Zensor vokal (will upgrade to opticon vokal eventually)
REL T9i subwoofer (10in + 10in passive, 300 watt)

this forum has helped me out with previous issues and so I’m hoping for some more useful advice.

the bass is really lacking when watching movies and even with music there is no sofa shaking bass. If I concentrate real hard then I get a tickle from the sofa but nothing more. Also, when I do crank the volume up on occasions (when the kids aren’t home or when listening to music from the garden) the subwoofer tends to struggle to give more output. I do like the sound of the bass from the REL but I don’t think it is powerful enough to pressurise the room. Therefore I am looking to upgrade my sub. I’m mindful that my AVR isn’t great (no pre outs) and so happy for someone to sway my decision and put money towards a new AVR instead (but I can’t see how that will fix the bass issue). Further down the line I would probably look for a new AVR and a separate stereo amp for the fronts. Surrounds are out of the question at the moment as my kids are young and will likely knock anything over that is on a stand and wall mounting isn’t going to be easy.

budget is around £2800 but I don’t necessarily want to spend it all as the AVR etc will need upgrading soon.

Options I’m thinking of and rough prices:
1. Arendal 1723 2V £2,300
2. Dual Arendal 1723 1V £2,800
3. SVS PB 4000 £2,250
4. Dual SVS PB 3000 £3,100
5. SVS PB16 Ultra £3,000
6. Dual BK Monolith plus £1,200 which leaves money for new AVR (say Denon X4500 second hand)

on the subject of the dual options above with SVS and Arendal (not BK), I do think dual would be better than a more premium single subwoofer. However, I am slightly leaning towards getting the more premium single subwoofer in the hope that I would be able to go dual in the near future rather than going dual now with a lower bracket subwoofer and then wanting to upgrade them both in the future.

I would love to know whether people think dual BKs are powerful enough to pressurise the room and how they sound with music. I have heard great things about BK on the value for money front. Just wondering if the extra money for Arendal/SVS is worth it (I’m aware doubling the price doesn’t mean double the performance).

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

@dipsettt hi buddy your house is just like mine as layout just 1 meter smaller all round, but exactly same set up with kitchen and living area.
I’ve had a BK Monolith DF Plus for about 7 years or so and let me tell you it shakes the room lol, I’m in the process of putting in another Monolith on the other end of the room very soon! Look no further you won’t be disappointed.

 

[dipsettt]

@dipsettt hi buddy your house is just like mine as layout just 1 meter smaller all round, but exactly same set up with kitchen and living area.
I’ve had a BK Monolith DF Plus for about 7 years or so and let me tell you it shakes the room lol, I’m in the process of putting in another Monolith on the other end of the room very soon! Look no further you won’t be disappointed.

That is good info. A week prior to me starting this thread I was quite sure I would get dual BM monolith + so it is good to know they do shake the room.
I’ve pulled the trigger on a Monoprice Monolith 15 which should be arriving on Wednesday....I can’t wait

I spent remaining funds on a Marantz SR7015 (thanks @Gasp3621 - I managed to get a good deal on this so didn’t go with the SR6015). It is leaps and bounds better than my denon x2300 but that’s sort of expected. Very happy with the sound I have now.

 

[Gasp3621]

That is good info. A week prior to me starting this thread I was quite sure I would get dual BM monolith + so it is good to know they do shake the room.
I’ve pulled the trigger on a Monoprice Monolith 15 which should be arriving on Wednesday....I can’t wait

I spent remaining funds on a Marantz SR7015 (thanks @Gasp3621 - I managed to get a good deal on this so didn’t go with the SR6015). It is leaps and bounds better than my denon x2300 but that’s sort of expected. Very happy with the sound I have now.

Woah, that is some serious system coming up there, congrats! You just might have to re-watch all the old classic blockbuster movies and i bet the usage % will change some cause it`s going to be different experience. Maybe someday you get few good flicks in bluray cause people with lesser systems has heard the difference between streaming and lossless bluray sountracks! Keep us posted.

PS. As you probably know Audussey sets the bass quite low, i would set the gain with your Mono to around 77-78db when you run Audussey and it asks you to match speakers. Don´t be scared of the warning "red zone". You get the subwoofer to negative trim with lots of headroom to tweak it without having to run touch the knobs and it´s much easier to change it from couch via Marantz menu "subwoofer level" (example -8db to -4db).

 

[Satpalbhai]

That is good info. A week prior to me starting this thread I was quite sure I would get dual BM monolith + so it is good to know they do shake the room.
I’ve pulled the trigger on a Monoprice Monolith 15 which should be arriving on Wednesday....I can’t wait

I spent remaining funds on a Marantz SR7015 (thanks @Gasp3621 - I managed to get a good deal on this so didn’t go with the SR6015). It is leaps and bounds better than my denon x2300 but that’s sort of expected. Very happy with the sound I have now.

I’ve personally not heard the Monoprice 15THX but heard so many good reviews
I already had a BK Mono plus anyway and made sense to get another one at the rear, I’m only running an old Sony Amp 1060, does the job but also looking to upgrade to a Marantz, the amp I want is about £1599 not sure of model number, I’m hoping it will give better bass lol
I use this set up for music only, I can a dedicated cinema/living room lol, surround with Kef Q series’s on ground and 2 on ceiling for Atmos, got BKs new passive sub PB12-300SB-PR with an older Sony amp which will be upgraded to the new NADT778, heard some crazy reviews about this amp you should look into it buddy, let me know your thoughts when the beast arrives

 

[dipsettt]

Thought I would post an update. So I’ve had my monoprice monolith 15 for a few weeks now but only really had the chance to properly set it up a few days ago (had to wait for the kids and wife to leave). As @Gasp3621 mentioned, I had to ignore the green zone in the audyssey setup and I actually let this run to 83 DB (it appear to like bass )

I absolutely love this sub. The bass is so so satisfying. I’m running duals subs....the mono and my REL T9i. The REL output is completely insignificant compared to the mono. I’ve had to fix the mirrors in the room more firmly to the walls as they were rattling like crazy. Even at low volumes the output is great and puts a big smile on my face.

so overall I’m super happy I bought the monoprice. The bad thing is that I have a bad case of upgraditis. I only have a 3.2 setup and at first I was looking to get rid of the REL and get another monoprice (kids would knock rear surrounds over so that isn’t an option at the moment). However, an opportunity has come up (brother in law) to do any ceiling wiring. I’m therefore thinking of getting 4 ceiling speakers hooked up in the main zone for atmos (but I will probably temporary use the rear two ceiling speakers as rear surrounds until I get bookshelf speakers), another two ceiling speakers for the kitchen (for cooking while the kids are glued to peppa pig) and another two speakers for the patio outdoors (so I don’t have to crank the volume in the house to hear music in the garden).

this does pose a couple of problems....I need another amp to power the outdoor speakers and most importantly....the wife is seriously not happy. I’ll need to do some more research on which in ceilings to go for but at the moment I’m tempted with Polk audio RC80i and then Monitor audio CL80s for outdoors.

thanks everyone for all your help. It has been much appreciated.

 

[Gasp3621]

Thought I would post an update. So I’ve had my monoprice monolith 15 for a few weeks now but only really had the chance to properly set it up a few days ago (had to wait for the kids and wife to leave). As @Gasp3621 mentioned, I had to ignore the green zone in the audyssey setup and I actually let this run to 83 DB (it appear to like bass )

I absolutely love this sub. The bass is so so satisfying. I’m running duals subs....the mono and my REL T9i. The REL output is completely insignificant compared to the mono. I’ve had to fix the mirrors in the room more firmly to the walls as they were rattling like crazy. Even at low volumes the output is great and puts a big smile on my face.

so overall I’m super happy I bought the monoprice. The bad thing is that I have a bad case of upgraditis. I only have a 3.2 setup and at first I was looking to get rid of the REL and get another monoprice (kids would knock rear surrounds over so that isn’t an option at the moment). However, an opportunity has come up (brother in law) to do any ceiling wiring. I’m therefore thinking of getting 4 ceiling speakers hooked up in the main zone for atmos (but I will probably temporary use the rear two ceiling speakers as rear surrounds until I get bookshelf speakers), another two ceiling speakers for the kitchen (for cooking while the kids are glued to peppa pig) and another two speakers for the patio outdoors (so I don’t have to crank the volume in the house to hear music in the garden).

this does pose a couple of problems....I need another amp to power the outdoor speakers and most importantly....the wife is seriously not happy. I’ll need to do some more research on which in ceilings to go for but at the moment I’m tempted with Polk audio RC80i and then Monitor audio CL80s for outdoors.

thanks everyone for all your help. It has been much appreciated.

I think the 83db is too high, usually 78-80db via the on-screen is spot on (do 3mic positions) and then check subwoofer level. If it´s -12db it´s out of range, the gain is too high. So rather aim for 78db and then tweak the subwoofer level lower. Example it comes back -8db then change to -4db which should be plenty.

Sell the T9i (classifieds, gumtree,ebay), do not use it with Monolith. It´s bad idea cause it can´t keep up and there is going to be some phase issues. Conrad just wrote abou this.

How does multiple subwoofers work?

General question please guys for education on how subwoofers work. If I had for example an Arendal 1V and an TV2112, can they both work and play together? Or is it better to not mix brands? Or not mix woofer sizes? Its all really confusing as I see some people with dual 15s and then a 18'' sub...

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