Subwoofer setup no response during normal listing

GiddyFish

Active Member
I'm hoping someone might be able to explain and help me understand what is happening

I've downloaded the test tones from this thread

I'm playing them via kodi on an nvidia shield pro

The tones bellow 64Hz I can feel / hear sound / vibration coming from the subwoofer
I therefore know the subwoofer is connected and working

Without adjusting anything
when I play a film or music from eg Eric Clapton or
Firth of Fifth by Genesis.
I'm told
The Taurus bass pedal notes that Mike Rutherford plays at 6:52 and 7:40 are reputedly the lowest ever recorded

I don't get anything from the Subwoofer
Similarly with films

If the Subwoofer is setup correctly I realise I shouldn't be able to tell where base sound is coming from.
However knelling with my ear next to the sub I should be able hear / feel something as I do with the test tones

Current settings Denon avr-x2700h

• The subwoofer level in the Denon channel level to -2.5dB
• The crossover of the front speakers to 60Hz Large
• The crossover of the centre speaker to 60Hz Small
• The crossover of the surround speakers to 80Hz Small
• The bass mode to LFE only

Under Setup > Audio > Audyssey -

Audyssey EQ - Reference

Audyssey Dynamic EQ - ON

Audyssey Dynamic Volume - OFF

LFC is OFF

Subwoofer is SVS SB-1000 pro set to factory settings adjusting the volume via the app doesn't do anything
 

Conrad

Moderator
That note is 32Hz. Can you feel or see the driver moving when you play that track?
You could be in a null. If you move around the room when it's playing, do you hear anything? Stand by a wall or in a corner for maximum effect.
 

GiddyFish

Active Member
That note is 32Hz. Can you feel or see the driver moving when you play that track?
No
however playing the 32Hz test tone the sub vibrates actually the whole room feels like it vibrating
Hence why I'm confused
Looking at the mediaInfo the Genesis track as

Audio​

Format :MPEG Audio
Format version :Version 1
Format profile :Layer 3
Duration :9 min 34 s
Bit rate mode :Constant
Bit rate :320 kb/s
Channel(s) :2 channels
Sampling rate :44.1 kHz
Frame rate :38.281 FPS (1152 SPF)
Compression mode :Lossy

The 32Hz Test Tone has a higher bit rate

Audio​

Format :MPEG Audio
Format version :Version 1
Format profile :Layer 3
Format settings :Joint stereo
Duration :10 s 57 ms
Bit rate mode :Variable
Bit rate :127 kb/s
Channel(s) :2 channels
Sampling rate :44.1 kHz
Frame rate :38.281 FPS (1152 SPF)
Compression mode :Lossy

If it was just this file I'd put it down to low quality recording

Watching the meteor shower in Greenland at 1:30 I can feel the sub vibrating where as the majority of the film is kinda flat

Playing the test tones and moving around the room seem to make a difference but no difference for generic files

There seems to be a lull in the 50Hz test Tone less vibration
 

KMO

Active Member
Your front speakers should be set to "Small", otherwise no bass will be redirected from them - that 60Hz crossover setting won't be doing anything with "Large".

Not sure why you're getting different results from the test tones. Denons do have various sort of per-input and per-mode settings, in particular for "stereo" mode. Maybe some mode is flipping based on what you're playing.

Is there some difference in input format - eg 2.0 versus 5.1?
 

GiddyFish

Active Member
Your front speakers should be set to "Small", otherwise no bass will be redirected from them - that 60Hz crossover setting won't be doing anything with "Large".
I will try tonight
Any idea why this makes a difference I assume it's because a Large speaker has greater range?

Each mode E.G. Movie, Music Game etc has different pre-sets on the whole the amp can detect the appropriate mode. I've been scrolling through these although the sound changes most noticeably between 5.1 DD Surround and Stereo it doesn't effect the sub output then I haven't tried setting the front to small

Is there some difference in input format - eg 2.0 versus 5.1?

Do you mean between the the test tones and the Genesis track?
Apart from the Bit Rate both look the same 2.0 channel
 

KMO

Active Member
"Large" and "Small" are just the conventional terms for a choice between "no crossover - full range" and "use crossover".

You pretty much always want to select Small for a domestic setup, even if it's a tower. You might just set the crossover frequency lower for a bigger speaker - although many would advocate not trying to use the whole of a speaker's range just "for the sake of it" - let the sub take the strain.

I think a likely reason for differing behaviour so far has been whether it's been trying to play bass from the centre or the L+R.

Bass going to the centre would be redirected to the sub, cos it's "small". Bass sent to L+R would not.

If the test tone was going through the Dolby Surround upmixer, and hence to the centre, while the music track was being played as stereo, so L+R, that would explain it. But if they're both MP3, not clear why playback mode would have changed...
 

GiddyFish

Active Member
Hi @KMO

"Large" and "Small" are just the conventional terms for a choice between "no crossover - full range" and "use crossover".

Thanks for the tip on setting front speakers to small

I found this blog which basically says the same thing if using a sub, set ALL speakers to small.

Should Speakers Be Set to Large or Small on an AV Receiver?

I did that last night I'm now getting a lot more response from the sub

I watched one the Underworld Films and if I'm honest the sub seemed to over power the dialogue, I've not seen this film before so it could be the film

I now need to work out how to tweak the settings

I thought you could use the SVS app on my phone to adjust sub volume during use, in fact that was the main reason I chose this model.

It now appears not to be the case every thing is controlled via the AVR settings the sub volume doesn't seem to do anything.


I think a likely reason for differing behaviour so far has been whether it's been trying to play bass from the centre or the L+R.
That would make sense
YouTube music sounded better I found an "Official" version of the Genesis track and could hear feel the base change which I don't get with the .mp3 copy

I don't know if that's the file or the way the AVR interprets Music from different sources
an .mp3 file needs software to play it the AVR then 'picks' it's best guess on now to play it

This is going to be different from YouTube

I do know when a film is played the AVR knows if it has Stereo, Dolby 5.1 or Atmos sound track and selects the correct playback mode

I also need to explore the different stereo modes
 

KMO

Active Member
If you're getting the receiver to play an MP3 itself from a media server, then it will be seeing that it is a 2.0 stream and applying all its upmix possibilities, including potentially sending to the centre.

But if you're using the audio output from a PC, eg for YouTube, it's likely the PC is always outputting 5.1, with it just putting sound in the L+R channels of the 5.1, and then there's no possibility for the receiver to upmix.

It should be possible to see from the status readouts on the receiver what input format it's actually getting, and what processing modes are enabled.

Crappy playback devices not faithfully outputting the original channel layout is a recurring problem.

I can't think why the sub's own volume wouldn't work. Both receiver and sub controls should be effective. But you want to choose a sub volume so that the receiver's volume doesn't have to be set to anything too extreme.

Too high receiver volume might cause clipping at the sub's input or receiver's output, and too low might prevent the sub from waking if it's got auto-standby. Try to keep it below 0dB at least.
 

GiddyFish

Active Member
Hi

I think I may have resolved the problem

1st setting all speakers to small

2nd Doing a factory reset within the SVS app This then gave a different volume range

It was 0 to -200 after reset it’s now 0 to -60 with the default at -10

I think it was both of these causing the problems

Occasionally I’m getting a crack in 1 of the rear speakers
I’ve yet to work out if this a dodgy sound track or the speaker as it happens so infrequently

I don't suppose such a thing exists: I searched and didn't find anything.

I was thinking It would be really useful to play a file that sends a range tone to each speaker channel in turn to test exactly where the crossover was with a graphic to indicate what the frequency was.

You'd need separate files for 2.0 stereo, 5.1 Dolby and 7.1 atmos etc.
 

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