Subwoofer confusion

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by jelboy, Jun 20, 2002.

  1. jelboy

    jelboy
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    Equipment: Kef Q15's, C90 Centre, 60s Rears, Yamaha AV595 DD/DTS Panasonic DVD

    My system may be dated be still sounds great apart from the obvious lack of sub. As I have Kefs all round should I go for a Kef sub? I had my eye on the PSW1000 but they have stopped making it so my question is this -
    Which sub can anybody recommend for my system that will enhance the fairly lacking bottom end and integrate well with my Kefs?
    My room is 14 x 11 and my budget is £300 (ish)
    Thanks all

    Jelboy
     
  2. Electric Mayhem

    Electric Mayhem
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    Hi

    How about a Paradigm sub? either the PDR10 or PS1000 both on offer at Richer Sounds at the moment (tell them you saw the ad in What HiFi mag) 120 & 150 quid respectively. PS1000 would be my choice of the two, the old mans got one in his system and it works well for both movies & music.
     
  3. jelboy

    jelboy
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    Thanks Jase

    Are they really that good?
    I could poss go to £400 is it made a huge difference

    Thanks again
     
  4. Electric Mayhem

    Electric Mayhem
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    For the money theyre a bit of a bargain. 300 quid will get you two of them:D To be honest if your budget increases you might want to look at a REL but they start at around 450-500 quid unless you come across a 2nd hand one but even so you have to think seriously about one Rel or two (or three!!) Paradigms for the same money.

    Worth a demo at the very least.
     
  5. jelboy

    jelboy
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    Thanks again Jase

    Am I being a bit of a spas?
    I can't find any reference to Paradigm at all on richer sounds website and their phones are always engaged!
    Any suggestions as to where else they sell these bad boys
    Thanks

    Jelboy
     
  6. Electric Mayhem

    Electric Mayhem
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    At the moment Richer Sounds are the sole distributors for Paradigm products. You´d need to call a branch local to you to check stock or get them to order one in.

    Paradigm products dont appear on their website unfortunately.
     
  7. GaryG

    GaryG
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    I quite like the Tannoy MSUB 10

    I'm sure you'll get it for under £200 now.
     
  9. Ian J

    Ian J
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    Jelboy,

    A cheap sub is worse than no sub. If you will consider second hand there is a REL Strata for sale in the classifieds that is miles better than anything mentioned so far.
     
  10. jelboy

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    Now heres a dilemma
    I've just been offered a Kef psw1000 2nd hand for £90!
    Would that be better than a new Paradigm ps1000 (for £1500)
    Thanks all
     
  11. Ian J

    Ian J
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    anything will be better value than a PS1000 for £1,500
     
  12. jelboy

    jelboy
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    Sorry

    £150 new.

    Would the Kef be a better performer?
    New vs just run-in, - any benefits?
    Your views are appreciated

    Jelboy
     
  13. Electric Mayhem

    Electric Mayhem
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    I still prefer the Paradigm, but I´ve never really rated Kefs subs that highly, not checked out the new range yet though.
     
  14. timothyw

    timothyw
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    A cheap bad sub maybe ;) A cheap sub isn't neccesarily a bad one, for goodness sake try before you buy if you are unsure- but make sure to ask if its been run in, a sub won't even begin to reach its best until it been run in for a good period of time. I seem to recall reading someone say he ran in his new REL stentor for a week wrapped in a blanket before he could get the best out of it....
     
  15. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    jelboy,
    Kef Sub mentioned not even close to Paradigm PS-1000, I have one of these and am very pleased with it.
    I've tried various subs, and really like the Paradigms.
    The best advice is to try it yourself, as mentioned above.
    Richer Sounds are ceasing to be the Paradigm U.K. distributor, how this will affect service back up?
    Paradigms are not cheap subs back in Canada, they just seem to be available from RS @bargain prices.
     
  16. Guest

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    Hmmm your problem whilst listening must be a cheap amp with under driven speakers. ;)

    Less you've heard said subs i doubt you should be recommending anything, the Tannoy Msub 10, i have listen to many times with all types of dvd's and music.

    I personally do not like second hand goods less you have them checked out and tested by a professional, lets just say others do not treat their AV stuff with the tenderness and care it deserves.

    Jelboy there is no short cut here you must go listen to them :)
     
  17. chris thomas

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  18. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I am please to see that you have at last managed a dig at me that does not contain sexual innuendo which has to be deleted by moderators.

    I must bow to your greater knowledge of AV equipment and would be eternally grateful if you could recommend what I should replace my cheap Denon AVC10SE amp with so that I do not under drive my M&K speakers.

    Along with other members of this forum I try to ignore your inane jabbering but when it comes to giving frivolous answers to serious questions your lack of knowledge coupled with a desire to try to score points does no good to anyone except perhaps your own ego.
     
  19. Guest

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    Yet again Ian J you did not see this " ;) " your raving male hormones i might add have yet again got the better of you, i was merely implying the fact that you must listen to what you want to buy, you can not dismiss a so called cheaper sub if i can use your term of words.

    So i take it you've listened to all the above mentioned subs?

    As for my knowledge i only try to give advice or suggestions on what i'm a 100% certain of, you only have to read the reveiws i listed with the link to the Tannoy Msub 10 to see quite a few ppl agree with me that have actually listened to it. But what really matters is what jelboy wants and what is within his budget, many good suggestions have been made here.


    [Defamatory remark deleted by Admin (Spectre)]
     
  20. Guest

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    Oops i forgot Delphi cocks her little finger at Ian J :D
     
  21. jelboy

    jelboy
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    Nice bickering children - tells me nothing about audio equipment does it?
     
  22. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Ian J and Accursed Delphi both out of order for sniping at each other. Pack it in.
    Jelboy, the best advice is always to audition yourself, but if you can afford a REL ST range sub, then you'd be mad not to audition one. Generally speaking - through there are obviously exceptions - you get what you pay for. And so cheaper subs GENERALLY don't have the same quality of driver, amp or other important components as more expensive ones. Therefore I would recommend you audition the subs which max out your budget.
    In addition, many, MANY people don't know what they are listening for when auditioning subs. Some people expect to hear an obvious BOOM BOOM from the things. If you can hear this, then most likely the sub hasn't been set up properly in the shop and additionally it may not be a decent sub.
    The effects of a good subwoofer should be felt as well as heard and should be somewhat subtle rather than 'in yer face'.
     
  23. Guest

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    some helpful hints

    HA! HA!

    And jenius i never said i wasn't a man :eek:
     
  24. chris thomas

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    jellboy, to be honest with ya , if ya can afford a rel i,d probably get 1 but i hav a rel strata 2 and allthough it was very good it wernt nearly £300 notes better than my mission, still got the rel wich i,m getting repaired soon for a second sub but as i said earlier, for just over £200 squid i,d definetly recommend a demo of the mission m8, ;)
     
  25. uncle eric

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    Jelboy,
    This is good advice from Ian. The Q15 is one of my favourite speakers and as a former owner I've enjoyed hundreds of hours of quality listening to these fine speakers. Although it can be used as such, this is not a satellite speaker in the strictest sense of the word. They go down to around 50Hz (which I prefer) as opossed to the common 80Hz point of most satellite speakers out there.
    This means that if you buy an inferior (Ians word for cheap, correct me if I'm wrong Ian) sub that lacks the ability to meet and blend with the Q15's in that region, you will be in trouble.

    One of the reasons I like the 50Hz point is that 50Hz is still very directional. Therefore, when the front three can achieve this, it will result in a superior and "fuller" soundstage than the <80 Hz sound going to one subwoofer which would in fact lessen and "thin out" the soundstage.

    Going back to poor quality subs. It would be a shame to "marry" the clean sound and imagery of the Q15's with higher distortion budget designs such as the Tannoy or Kef subs mentioned.
    The Paradigm is a better sub than both but the REL as mentioned by Ian is on another level. If you worry about buying used equipment, and in most case's you shouldn't, go for something where there is some (transferable) warranty left on the item. I think REL has two or even three years warranty on their subs.

    One more thing. Many posters here quite correctly suggest that you have a listen. This is all very well if you know "how" to listen.
    Good subwoofers don't just rumble just as good speakers are not just loud.
    If you are new or newish to this hobby, you would not have had the chance to listen to a great deal of equipment let alone do side by side comparisons. Even when the latter is possible, in many cases, incorrect set up by inexperienced Hi Fi showroom staff will give you tainted results. What to do?
    I suggest you listen to some of the more knowledgable members here such as Ian, Jase and a few others and you won't go far wrong.

    Eric
     
  26. Guest

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    jelboy

    I would never personally ever ask advice here, are these ppl going to go listen with you, no they're not and when your second hand warrenty goes awry or they refuse it are they going to help no. So it is all suggestions in the end it's your money your HC i hope you spend the time finding what is right for your HC budget.

    I've been very lucky as i've had a person that builds HC proffesionally as my mentor for many years.

    Might i also add we are all on a learning curve that never stops :)
     
  27. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Buying second hand is somewhat of a risk and that's one reason why it's cheaper than buying new.
    Some gear is built to last. Can't speak for other brands but because I've seen what goes into REL subs I know they are over-engineered. Chances are that unless it's obviously knackered, a REL sub will continue to work for years. I'd buy a second hand REL.
    Glad you think these forums are worthwhile, Delphi.
     
  28. Guest

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    Accused Lefti,
    Thats your advise then is it? :D:eek::rolleyes:
     
  29. Guest

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    :eek: Don't do it Uncle Deric :rolleyes::D
     
  30. Guest

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    Gives chip a squeeze till.... "cencorsed" ;) :D :eek:
     

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