Subwoofer advice for my space, Arendal 1961 vs SB2000pro and subwoofer orientation questions

[Lyrica]

Hi folks!

After reading and watching reviews of various subwoofers around the 800-1200€ range, making comparative spreadsheets and reading around 100 pages of the Arendal subwoofers owner’s thread since when the 1961 subs came out, I’m close to ordering a 1961 1S subwoofer to replace my (barely a) subwoofer, a Yamaha yst-fsw050 that I bought a few years ago (ported 6,5", rated at only 35Hz... it gets boomy so easily).

• My HT setup is being used 80/20 for Movies/Music. I’m currently using Wharfedale speakers (220, 210, 220c) and a Denon 1400h (hoping to replace it with an Onkyo TX-NR7100 if it is ever available in Europe).
• I live in an apartment building with neighbours above and below, that has good thermal isolation (perhaps it means it also has good acoustic isolation? I haven't heard any noise fromt hem yet at least) and my living room is open to the kitchen.
• The living room area size is 5.87 x 4,83m (28.35m2) but the open kitchen and entrance area add an extra 6m x 1,92m, making the total open area around 40m2 in size. The ceiling height is 2.50m, so the total cubic size of this space is 100m3.
• Even though I don’t listen to the TV too loudly most of the time, I would like to be able to experience some degree of infrasonics with movies if possible.
• I Initially considered the following models: PC2000pro, PB1000pro, SB2000 pro and SB3000micro from SVS; Arendal 1961 1S, 1961 1V and 1723 1S (slightly over budget).

Aesthetics are important to my spouse and me, so we would really prefer to get a subwoofer not much more than 41cm deep and if possible not more than 53cm tall (with feet).

I think I have settled on the 1961 1S but have some doubts that I hope more knowledgeable members will be able to answer:

• Could this work in my room? The subwoofer would probably go where my current subwoofer sits (pictures attached)
• Is it OK for the subwoofer to be firing into the leg of a standing lamp? and for it to be partially facing (40cm away) a wall and a balcony door ?
• What about having the driver face the TV wall or the sofa/listening position?
• Should I go for a front firing model like the SVS SB2000pro instead?

Thanks for your help

 

[Gasp3621]

First i need to say please raise up your center channel and wall mount the tv or buy floor tv stand from amazon or similar site. It goes behind your av-unit and under it and is height adjustable so it looks like you have mounted tv on wall, then you can put the center on top of the unit and angle shooting upwards toward ears (two rubber door wedges each side). Now the speaker shoots peoples feets. Center channel covers like 70% of movies soundtrack so most active speaker and you have it placed very poorly.

That is tricky situation as large open room, but apartment so basically you should be going with ported sub (total space) especially if you require the most impact in the deep frequencies, but that would mean listening quite loud to get the most out of it which you probably can`t do in apartment or you run in war with neighbours.

Arendal recommends 10cm driver to object clearance, but many has 5cm and they fine. Arendal like most brands recommends front corner placement, but i think that position you have can still work fine and the lamp shouldn`t be issue really. Low frequencies are omnidirectional so the driver doesn´t need to face you, similar as there is down firing subwoofers.

Arendal site reviews has 1S vs. 1V and the latter gives you bit more of the infrasonic rumble and the earthquake feel due to vented cab. But that may or may not bother neighbours as bass travels so easily. There is big differences in sound proofing too so hard to say. Hope you don´t have neighbours below you. Arendal site also has group tests of 1S, SB2000 Pro and few others. They liked Arendal best. Audioholics is also getting the 1S/1V review out soon.

I will put few pictures so you get idea of the size and can show your gf/wife. The 1S will be night and day better what you have now so i don´t think it would disappoint. Only if you get those "what if" thoughts later for not going with 1V, but it`s huuuuge so wife might not be happy..

Here is dual 1961 1S:

And 1961 1V:

Both:

 

[Lyrica]

First i need to say please raise up your center channel and wall mount the tv or buy floor tv stand from amazon or similar site. It goes behind your av-unit and under it and is height adjustable so it looks like you have mounted tv on wall, then you can put the center on top of the unit and angle shooting upwards toward ears (two rubber door wedges each side). Now the speaker shoots peoples feets. Center channel covers like 70% of movies soundtrack so most active speaker and you have it placed very poorly.

That is tricky situation as large open room, but apartment so basically you should be going with ported sub (total space) especially if you require the most impact in the deep frequencies, but that would mean listening quite loud to get the most out of it which you probably can`t do in apartment or you run in war with neighbours.

Arendal recommends 10cm driver to object clearance, but many has 5cm and they fine. Arendal like most brands recommends front corner placement, but i think that position you have can still work fine and the lamp shouldn`t be issue really. Low frequencies are omnidirectional so the driver doesn´t need to face you, similar as there is down firing subwoofers.

Arendal site reviews has 1S vs. 1V and the latter gives you bit more of the infrasonic rumble and the earthquake feel due to vented cab. But that may or may not bother neighbours as bass travels so easily. There is big differences in sound proofing too so hard to say. Hope you don´t have neighbours below you. Arendal site also has group tests of 1S, SB2000 Pro and few others. They liked Arendal best. Audioholics is also getting the 1S/1V review out soon.

I will put few pictures so you get idea of the size and can show your gf/wife. The 1S will be night and day better what you have now so i don´t think it would disappoint. Only if you get those "what if" thoughts later for not going with 1V, but it`s huuuuge so wife might not be happy..

Here is dual 1961 1S:

And 1961 1V:

Both:

Wow, thank you so much for your very comprehensive answer Gasp3261!
I had seen these setups before and they are beautiful, are they yours?

• The walls are unable to carry any weight (I learned that the hard way) but I was not aware of the existence of floor TV stands (is that a floor stand in the 1st image?)! It seems like a great option, I will have to look into it!
• I often have to lay down sideways on the sofa but for when I can sit and for my wife, having the center aimed towards our ears instead of our knees would be nice. I will get some door wedges too.
• The neighbours above me seem chill but I the neighbours below seem like they could complain easily (and I really don’t want to bother anyone anyway), that and the size is why I have reservations about the 1V (at 500mm that is 85 mm more depth and I would have to leave more room for the back vent, so it would protrude far too much - perhaps if I aim the driver it towards the listening position it will be a better fit, 390mm. You said the driver doesn't need to face me… but is it ok if it does then?)

I made a simulation of the setup with your suggestions and approximated the size of the 1961 1V (it is a 1S made bigger since I couldn’t find any 1Vs from that perspective, I would get it in black probably). With the driver aimed towards me, the 1V would be more or less flush with the TV unit.

Thank you so much again for the tips

 

[Gasp3621]

Not mine, but you never if someday later when other things in house are done..

Here is link so you see what i mean. One without the middle glass.

Amazon.co.uk : floor tv stand

Yes it would be ok to have it that way and that is actually what i have seen many owners do. With the neighbours below i would probably play safe as you get the size advantage with 1S and of course being cheaper. The Yamaha you have isn´t doing anything below 40hz, it`s a 6,5" driver with 50w amp in tiny box. I wouldn`t even call that a subwoofer so the 1S is going to blowing you away surely. If you run issues you could consider the sub by the couch nearfield giving you some impact without running it as loud. I don´t know how easily the bass travels to downstair neighbour. I didn´t have issues on 1st floor apartments with neighbour only one side, but when i lived higher up i didn´t push as loud cause it´s so annoying to hear thump thump coming from upstairs. Need to remember there is massive differences in sound proofing too.

You could do carboard mock up to see the real size. Measuring and cutting.

If you would be moving to detached/semi-detached etc. in near future then i would think about the 1V cause you can use the bungs to run it sealed too. But it´s large and i remember one member had to return it after he`s wife saw it. The cardboard mock up will help visualize the size.

 

[Lyrica]

The Yamaha was supposed to only be a placeholder (4 years ago ) but now that we moved to our own apartment and we actually do have some space, it will FINALLY be replaced. The are no other moves in sight (perhaps by the time one can get a wireless subwoofer device implanted in one's brain). The cardboard on the left of the console in the photo matches the size of the 1961 1S quite well, I didn't make a mockup of the 1V but when I showed the simulation to my wife, the rejection was quite clear (frankly, I agree, it was too imposing for myself too).

 

[Gasp3621]

The Yamaha was supposed to only be a placeholder (4 years ago ) but now that we moved to our own apartment and we actually do have some space, it will FINALLY be replaced. The are no other moves in sight (perhaps by the time one can get a wireless subwoofer device implanted in one's brain). The cardboard on the left of the console in the photo matches the size of the 1961 1S quite well, I didn't make a mockup of the 1V but when I showed the simulation to my wife, th rejection was quite clear (frankly, I agree, it was too imposing for myself too).

Ok so it sounds the 1961 1S the way forward then! The Onkyos should arrive within few months, spring latest to Europe. The 7100 with Dirac Live looks great if they get competetive pricing. Going to make your sub sound better too.

 

[Lyrica]

I went and ordered the 1961 1S

I will report back when I get it

Thanks again

 

[Lyrica]

Ok so it sounds the 1961 1S the way forward then! The Onkyos should arrive within few months, spring latest to Europe. The 7100 with Dirac Live looks great if they get competetive pricing. Going to make your sub sound better too.

I ordered on Sunday, I was charged on Tuesday and on Wednesday afternoon I had the package in my living room.

The packaging was excellent and putting it up following the instructions required almost 0 strength (considering I didn't move it around the living room).

First, the sub is just gorgeous. Even though it looked nice in photos, I did not expect a black box to be this beautiful. The beveled edges, slim profile and matte finish...

It sticks out further than I thought (because I didn't account for the cable clearance- would it be OK to get a right angle power cable and right angle LFE cable and put it closer to the wall or is it likely to be detrimental to its functioning?). My wife is perfectly fine with that though, so I'm warming up to leaving it as is already.

As for the important part, the sound and infrasonics, it is pearls before swine I'm afraid. I simply lack the trained ear and understanding to be able to value how good it is and to make sure I'm doing everything right.

I followed Arendal's 1961 amplifier best practice (Ref Levels ON, EQ1, wake up sensitivity to High, LFP bypass on and crossover from the AVR at 80Hz... I need to double check that the input gain is set correctly) and was initially quite underwhelmed.
It was only when I played The Battle athe Binary Stars (the 2nd Star Trek Discovery episode) at volumes that were reaching uncomfortably loud that I got to experience quite impressive room shaking.

I went back to the receiver settings and fiddled a little bit with the Bass levels and inside the speakers levels with the ones for the subwoofer (I wonder if I'm doing the same thing with both options).... and then I got good rumbling at comfortable general volumes, we watched a Star Trek Prodigy with my wife and the sandstorms in that particular episode where quite impressive!

I still need to play with it a little further, play some movies known for their good LFE, some music (especially organ music) and I might eventually watch some REW tutorials and get a setup mic and/or ask a work colleague who is an audiophile to help me with further tuning.

Here a couple of pictures (I didn't get around to fixing the center speaker issue yet, it will probably take a while).

All in all, I'm already quite impressed with it!

 

[Gasp3621]

No issue putting it closer to wall as it`s sealed, would just need correct type of power cable and the sub cable, up to you.

I believe the ref on doesn´t necessarily put the gain as high as we want. If you go to menu what you have for "subwoofer level"? Example -6db.

 

[Lyrica]

Ah, I'm also very happy I didn't go with the 1961 1V, the 1S is plenty of subwoofer for me and I don't think I would have tolerated a bigger size in my living room.

(coincidentally, the box for the 1961 1S has exactly the same width and depth as the 1723 1V subwoofer and it is only around 3cm shorter)

 

[Gasp3621]

Ah, I'm also very happy I didn't go with the 1961 1V, the 1S is plenty of subwoofer for me and I don't think I would have tolerated a bigger size in my living room.

(coincidentally, the box for the 1961 1S has exactly the same width and depth as the 1723 1V subwoofer and it is only around 3cm shorter)

Yes true it looks spot on now size wise. Please check the level and get back to me.

 

[Lyrica]

Yes true it looks spot on now size wise. Please check the level and get back to me.

It was at - 6dB indeed.
I currently have it at +2dB. I will play with the levels the following days during daytime. I'm assuming that if I raise it too high the subwoofer has some safety systems not to break? Should I perhaps raise it the minimum necessary for the subwoofer to react and adjust the gain or the levels from the subwoofer itself?

Thank you so much for all the advice @Gasp3621

 

[Gasp3621]

It was at - 6dB indeed.
I currently have it at +2dB. I will play with the levels the following days during daytime. I'm assuming that if I raise it too high the subwoofer has some safety systems not to break? Should I perhaps raise it the minimum necessary for the subwoofer to react and adjust the gain or the levels from the subwoofer itself?

Thank you so much for all the advice @Gasp3621

It was -6db on Denon side? When you bump it to 0db that should be enough for most people, should be noticeable difference and i can´t imagine you would need to run it hotter for apartment. Usually advised not to go on the positive side too much, but it won´t be issue with your listening levels, however the -6db to 0db should be very noticeable (and safe) as most people feel 3-4db would be required. Now i looked the photo of your room, your seating location is fairly middle. Play a movie and go "crawl" like you would sit behind your couch. Listen does the bass sound stronger there. Do this after you have listened with the new sub level but bring it to 0db first. Do not touch the sub knobs at this point.

Don`t change the subwoofer distance figure, it should show you further distance than what it really is due to DSP adding delay.

Check do you have Audussey Dynamic EQ "On"? That could be helpfull for lower listening volumes. Audussey Dynamic Volume Off.

Generally check that you don´t have "dynamic compression" and "loudness management" turned "On". Play a movie hit pause and turn them Off if required.

Surr.Parameter AVR-X1400H

manuals.denon.com

@StefanBFC is there any settings in the sub itself that could be still limiting the "oomph" for Lyrica? Stefan has the 1S aswell.

 

[Lyrica]

Sorry for the delayed responses, I have my in-laws visiting and I don't want to scare them (again) with explosions. So I need to wait for the right time to make adjustments.

I managed to get "ooomph" yesterday but I think at the expense of sending a signal that was "too hot" (I think? can this make the signal less clean?).

• It was originally at -6db on the Denon side. I will turn it to 0dB.
• I had actually turned Dynamic EQ "off". I will turn it "On"
• I will check to make sure "dynamic compression" and "loudness management" are "off".

I hope to find a moment today to try it.

 

[StefanBFC]

I had mine set at 0db on the Arcam (Dirac pushes everything high to like +8db).

With Dirac off, and all channel's set to 0db, I put +5db on the sub, this I felt I needed to do for the low(ish) volumes I listen at. But I can clearly here it.

I admit though, this sub does seem to really shine at higher listening levels, unlike my previous subs. The higher you listen, obviously more 'omph' you will get but it's really controlled and not over whelming.

I did have the settings on the sub previously at -6db. I've changed this to 0.

I have.
Ref level - on
Input gain 0db

I've left the gain at 0db on the sub settings too. But you can increase this at 0.1 at a time.

 

[dreamingofpi]

..

First, the sub is just gorgeous. Even though it looked nice in photos, I did not expect a black box to be this beautiful. The beveled edges, slim profile and matte finish...

How would you describe the finish of the cabinet? Is it smooth to the touch? How durable do you think it is? Could you post a few more pictures?

Thanks!

 

[Lyrica]

The finish has a little bit of texture, but not much.
I have no idea how to estimate how durable it could be, I'm assuming it is durable but I just left it in the corner and treat it as if it was made of sugar.

Audiholics have this to say about the finish:
<<The 1961 subs only come in matte white and matte black finishes. As matte finishes go, the 1961s are pretty nice, and I have found the quality in “matte” finishes to range widely between manufacturers. The 1961 finishes aren’t as fine as the finishes from the 1723 series, but the 1723’s “matte” finish was really a true satin finish that was downplayed by Arendal for some reason. The 1961’s “matte” finish is a true matte finish, and a bit rougher and more textured than the satin finishes of the 1723s. The advantage of the slight texturing is that the matte finish is more durable and is not a fingerprint or scuff magnet like a satin finish.>>
Arendal Sound 1961 1S and 1V Subwoofers Review

I just took some photos with my phone, I'm not sure if it will show well, I apologise beforehand, I quickly wiped it with a microfibre cloth but didn't dust it completely.

I'm quite happy with the subwoofer, it gets nothing but praise and I understand why. The only tiny nuisance for my specific use case scenario is that I don't listen very loudly and prefer different levels for the sub for music listening (0db) and for home theater (+3db) use and I need to delve into the AVR settings to change it every time (if the sub had an app it would have helped I guess or an AVR with bass settings on the remote like the Onkyo TX-NR7100 and others have - I hope to get the latter eventually).

 

[dreamingofpi]

The finish has a little bit of texture, but not much.
I have no idea how to estimate how durable it could be, I'm assuming it is durable but I just left it in the corner and treat it as if it was made of sugar.

Audiholics have this to say about the finish:
<<The 1961 subs only come in matte white and matte black finishes. As matte finishes go, the 1961s are pretty nice, and I have found the quality in “matte” finishes to range widely between manufacturers. The 1961 finishes aren’t as fine as the finishes from the 1723 series, but the 1723’s “matte” finish was really a true satin finish that was downplayed by Arendal for some reason. The 1961’s “matte” finish is a true matte finish, and a bit rougher and more textured than the satin finishes of the 1723s. The advantage of the slight texturing is that the matte finish is more durable and is not a fingerprint or scuff magnet like a satin finish.>>
Arendal Sound 1961 1S and 1V Subwoofers Review

I just took some photos with my phone, I'm not sure if it will show well, I apologise beforehand, I quickly wiped it with a microfibre cloth but didn't dust it completely.

I'm quite happy with the subwoofer, it gets nothing but praise and I understand why. The only tiny nuisance for my specific use case scenario is that I don't listen very loudly and prefer different levels for the sub for music listening (0db) and for home theater (+3db) use and I need to delve into the AVR settings to change it every time (if the sub had an app it would have helped I guess or an AVR with bass settings on the remote like the Onkyo TX-NR7100 and others have - I hope to get the latter eventually).

Brilliant, thank you! Very useful...