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Subtitled Films

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by mcmullanbrush, Jul 21, 2002.

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  1. They have to be good to get a release

    8 vote(s)
    47.1%
  2. I pay more attention because I am reading

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%
  3. I am a pretentious prat

    7 vote(s)
    41.2%
  1. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    After watching Battle Royale last night I was thinking about how much I enjoyed subtitled films.

    I was wondering why:confused:

    Is it because in order for a foreign film to get decent publicity and a widespread release it has to be pretty good anyway.

    Is it because I pay more attention than I would due to the fact I am reading the screen.

    Or is it because I am a pretentious prat
     
  2. Ian J

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    I don't think that it can be for the first two reasons but the third is a definate possibility :)

    I don't enjoy subtitled films although I have enjoyed some films that are subtitled which is different.

    Reading subtitles takes attention away from the screen and subtle nuances are lost in the subtitling process as not every word is translated.

    I have watched Das Boot and Amelie in subtitles and thought that they were excellent and if I ever manage to watch Crouching Donkey to the end that will be another one under the belt but somehow I doubt whether I will bother. (That was a film where I got carried away with the hype generated by you lot).

    Anyway McM, only joking about the first paragraph. How can anyone who slurps his tea from the saucer be pretentious.
     
  3. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    What is a saucer:confused:
     
  4. Confucius

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    Option 4 I'm afraid: Because dubbed films are the spawn of Satan.
     
  5. Squirrel God

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    I like a good movie. Whether it's a foreign film or not is neither here nor there - it's whether the movie is good or not which counts. Foreign films are like any other sort of films; there are some which the critics love which are good, there are some which the critics hate which are still good, ..... etc. I particularly enjoy French cinema and ALWAYS opt for subtitles rather than dubbed soundtracks for obvious reasons.
     
  6. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    Thats really the reason for this thread

    I like good films, I have no genre bias (except musicals which I cant stand)

    I like and dislike films of all subjects but I noticed that I cant remember seeing a subtitled film I didnt like.

    It got me wondering why that was:confused:
     
  7. Squirrel God

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    Well it is only recently that I have started buying foreign films, but I have seen subtitled films on Channel 4 that I didn't enjoy much. I can't for the life of me remember the names though!

    Perhaps it's because you are subconsciously more picky about what you choose to buy in terms of foreign films??? Or it could be that you have more of a <insert nationality here>'s appreciation of film making, favouring those styles of film?????
     
  8. Dubbing Mixer

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    I'm declaring an interest or two on this one. First I much prefer dubbed (done properly) films to subtitles (and not just because it keeps legions of Foley artists, actors and re-recording mixers in work. For example, can you imagine the classic spaghetti westerns with sub-titles? (not that I am suggesting these are well dubbed, but in this case it adds to the charm. Or Monkey for that matter. I'm reasonably sure that, like @The Magic Roundabout' the original stories bore no resemblance to what we were presented with.

    And the second vested interest? My most hated task was recording ADR or Foley.......

    revoicing films is an art which, sadly, few do well. One of the worst offenders is Dario Argento who doesn't seem to give a t*ss what his movies sound like in English.
     
  9. Squirrel God

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    Well, I have to disagree with most of what you've said there Dubster ;)

    Monkey is an exception. It was only good because the dubbing was so bad, which made it comical and hilarious. There are a few other exceptions as well, but these are rare.

    But other than these, I hate dubbing! What's the point of casting your actors, if you then go with some other actor's voice? How can an actor who is doing the dubbing recreate all the atmosphere and emotion of the actor being dubbed? It's just not acceptable to me.

    As an example, I just bought Going Places (Les Valseuses), a French comedy which I have always found hilarious. I laughed even though I was reading subtitles, but as I watched Gerard Depardieu and Patrick Dewaere's facial expressions and listened to the characteristics of their voices, I imagined them saying what was in the subtitles. For a laugh, I then switched to the dubbed English track and was gobsmacked at how crap it was - for a start, everyone had American accents and secondly, those doing the dubbing were awful actors! If I had watched this film dubbed in English, I would have never enjoyed it even half as much.

    Ignoring the lip synch issues, dubbing is only remotely acceptable to me when those actors doing the dubbing are at least of an equivalent acting calibre to those starring in the movie. And with the best films with world class actors, this is hardly likely - imagine De Niro being dubbed in Goodfellas? Or Pacino being dubbed in Donnie Brasco? Or Nicholson being dubbed in The Shining? Preposterous if you ask me! (You can of course substitute my examples with your own, the principle is the same).
     
  10. mcmullanbrush

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    I actually believe the reason is option 1, although I see that the two people who have voted, have opted for 3:eek:

    I am sure that because many people dislike subtitles, it tends to filter out the release of the more ordinary efforts.

    My favourite film of last year was Amores Perros.

    In the past three weeks I have watched The Devils Backbone and Battle Royale and will be watching Audition later this evening. I have Amelie and Crouching Tiger sitting on my shelf.

    There seems to be more and more quality coming from foreign language movies, or maybe its because I am getting tired of Hollywood stuff:confused:
     
  11. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    Imagine Andie MacDowell being dubbed in Greystoke:confused: :confused:
     
  12. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    Actually the thought of DeNiro being dubbed by Woody Allen in Goodfellas sounds like a great idea:D

    I agree with Squirrel though, when I watched Life is Beautiful, the idea of watching it dubbed instead of subtitled seemed a dreadful idea.
     
  13. Squirrel God

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    Woody Allen doing De Niro ... now that I'd like to see as a special feature :p

    I've voted for No. 1, but to be honest I don't really like any of the 3 options - I think you need more options :rolleyes:
     
  14. Dubbing Mixer

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    Squirrel,

    I agree, up to a point. However, the dialogue replacement which happens routinely in english language films can be equally egregious. You might be surprised how many characters voices get replaced by different actors. Also, when you can see the actors mouths, it is extremely difficult to change a performance because this is largely dictated by the timing. I'm always particularly suspicious when you get a lot of reverse shots with the actor off screen speaking and backs of heads for no good reason. It often means the director didn't like the performance and has decided to change it.

    It isn't only dubbed movies which suffer from bad re-voicing.

    I still find good dubbing far less distracting than sub-titles, and I frequently don't bother to watch films when I discover they are sub-titled. They have to be very good!

    My other objection is bad and innacurate translation in sub-titles - especially leaving crucial things out. My French, German and Italian vary from sub O-level to dismal but I can still spot a lot of errors and ommissions. E.g. When you get an entire line of dialogue which is subtitled as 'OK' or 'I agree'
     
  15. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    You must understand Squirrel that this is my first poll:blush:

    I decided to do it when I was drunk and like most things one does when drunk, I now deeply regret it.

    I am also feeling very sore:confused: :confused:
     
  16. Squirrel God

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    Yes, but surely you also get this with dubbed dialogue too. Subtitles are the lesser of two evils if you ask me. I'd rather speak fluently the original language of the film, but that's not going to happen so I'll take subtitles as being the better option for me. :)

    So you got drunk and now you're sore? :eek: I daren't ask where you are sore :devil:
     
  17. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    As I awoke I saw the staff of S**** and V***** of notloB sneaking out of my house. Maybe they had been scr*wing me in a different way:confused:
     
  18. Dubbing Mixer

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    Sore? Pineapple?
     
  19. Dubbing Mixer

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    Squirrel,

    You are, of course, correct once again! Dialogue frequently gets mangled to fit the lip movements better.

    I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Just as well we're both reasonably well catered for.

    It would be nice if all non english language films offered the choice of both.
     
  20. Garrett

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    Even though I have enjoyed some subtitled films (Cinema Paradiso one of my all time favourites), even TV series (Octopus Power of the Mafia).
    I have to agree with Dubbing Mixer a well dubbed film you cannot spot the lip sync. I bet there is some you have watched and never known they was dubbed e.g. Goldfinger, Gert Frobe was dubbed. In his latter films Jack Hawkins was dubbed by Charles Grey.
    Also many films are dubbed in the studio by the same actors because of noise on location.
     
  21. wurzel

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    I was disappointed to find that all of the major characters' voices in Shrek were dubbed in the studio.
     
  22. PoochJD

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    HI,

    I have to say that I love foreign films. However, my main reason is the fact that the vast majority of foreign films are quality, and don't have to have a "happy ever after" style ending. Nor do they got b*st*rd studio-executives interfering and demanding major cuts or changes to the films.

    My first foreign movie I ever saw, was "Betty Blue", when I was just 14. I can't remember why I wanted to see it, as I had never actually read anything much about it, apart from what was on the video cover. Maybe it was the stunning Beatrice Dalle, or Jean-Hugues Anglade (from "Nikita") that caught my interest?

    Anyway, simply put, foreign films are superb. Also, just to throw two proverbial cats-amongst-the-pigeons:

    1) I defy anyone to name ANY English-language remake of a foreign-film that is SUPERIOR to its original!

    and

    2) Personally, I don't think there is such a thing, as a good dubbed movie! Dubbing on practically any film or TV series is always noticeable. It doesn't matter who you get to do it, if it wasn't filmed in that language, then it's going to either sound dumb, or look dumb! And once you know it's been dubbed (and even, when you don't), it really ruins the film/TV show you are watching.

    Just my two penny's worth!

    Pooch
     
  23. mcmullanbrush

    mcmullanbrush
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    Well thanks a bunch mate:(

    I wonder what Shrek really talks like:confused:
     
  24. Dubbing Mixer

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    Certainly not like Michael Myers!
     
  25. Garrett

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    They had to dub the donkey as they do not talk, only Mr Ed talks, but then again he is a horse.:rolleyes: :D
     
  26. Squirrel God

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    Of course! At the end of the day, we all must go with what we prefer. :)

    It would. At the moment I only own 2 foreign films - Betty Blue R4 does not have an English dub, but Going Places R1 does... I think Betty Blue R1 does have an English dub because Americans would agree with you by the looks of it.

    Which is a different matter entirely and is perfectly acceptable to me. :)

    I think it was Beatrice Dalle walking around in the nude for the vast majority of the film which did it mate ;) She looks fantastic in that movie... shame she hasn't aged so well - looks well haggered now :rolleyes:

    I just bought the Director's Cut R4 which is 3 hours long. If you haven't got it already, it's worth checking out. www.cd-wow.com are doing it for £9.99 delivered. Only downside is the subtitles are in a nasty yellow font :mad:
     
  27. Ian J

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    I saw his lips move
     
  28. Squirrel God

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    Sounds like you were watching the live action adult re-make :D
     
  29. Garrett

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    He was eating a carrot and they removed it with special effects.:D
     
  30. mcmullanbrush

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    Bang goes my theory:blush:

    I watched Audition last night and found it a little disappointing:(

    Decent torture scenes though:)
     

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