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sub's - are they realy that important ?

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by Solar, Aug 15, 2004.

  1. Solar

    Solar
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    i have finaly updated my front speakers from an old pair of Warfedale valdus 500's to some nice Eltax symphony 6.3's
    now i cant hear my sub like i used to and to be honest these eltax seem to have a much better sound than the sub and warfedales together.
    i tested the setup with the sub on and off, and it just sounds like a sub is not needed at all.

    so before i waste some more money on a better one i want to know, are they realy that important? and do they make that much a difference to watching movies as i wont be using it for music ?
    im no expert when it comes to this stuff so please try and keep answers simple and easy to understand :thumbsup:
     
  2. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The difference that a decent sub will make - even with hefty floorstanders, is quite enormous in action films where there is a lot of low end stuff.

    I thought that my old Tannoy floorstanders were quite meaty until I added a decent sub and I wouldn't be without one now
     
  3. krusty

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    i didnt have a sub for at least a year, and decided to buy a velodyne vx10 from these forums, its not exactly a rel ..but for the price it was a good investment. you have to tweak about with subs to get it right , but it pays off in the end. lastly[ and someone please correct me if im wrong] i think the subs performance could also depend on the quality of amp/ reciever? i originally had a denon avr 1802 which i sold and then got a yamaha A2,[ which some people could see as a step backwards] the bass is much more clearer and controlled on the a2 where on the 1802 it was a bit of a mess.so yes get a sub...............you,l hear the difference
     
  4. Pollywoggle

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    What sub do you have?
     
  5. Miniholic

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    I went without a sub for about 2 years, and was quite happy with my system - B&W Floorstanders up front - then bought my sub and there was no contest, it's not so much what you hear, but what you feel too.

    Now if I watch a film without it, I can really tell what I was missing before.
     
  6. Brogan

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    Agree with all the comments here.
    No full range floor or shelf speaker can match a dedicated sub when it comes to low frequencies.
    Although my old Kenwoods which were the size of sideboards and had 2 12" bass cones each came close...:D

    I never use my sub when listening to music though, just the fronts on their own.
     
  7. Nimby

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    krusty, I think you're quite right. The rest of the equipment does make a difference to a sub. Despite it being active with its own amp. It is still being fed a signal. The sub can only work on what it's given. Garbage in. Garbage out. :blush:

    Whether you need a sub for music (or not) depends on the quality of the subwoofer and the depths reached by the main (or stereo) speakers. It also depends on the quality of the speakers, the listening room and personal taste.

    Those who dislike subwoofers for music. Haven't heard a good subwoofer. Properly set up. In their system. In their room. Well that's my theory anyway. :)

    Nimby
     
  8. Brogan

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    My fronts are more than capable of doing the job without a sub muddying things.
    A sub is great for movies and LFE effects and also for providing much needed bass on a sub-sat system.
    It should not be used with a decent set of fronts when listening to music though.
     
  9. Solar

    Solar
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    ok thanks for the replies
    ill be looking for a decent sub on my next pay day :)
    is there any decent ones for around £200 - £250 ?
    im on a pretty tight budget atm so thats basicly my limit unless i save up, any recommendations ?
     
  10. Jeff

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    Very few speakers can do below 30Hz with authority and without distortion. A good sub can help with films and music.
     
  11. Brogan

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    Very few people can hear anywhere near 30Hz...
     
  12. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The Mordaunt Short MS309 is being sold by a couple of forum sponsors at a price half way between your minimum and maximum. It is also a very good sub that What Hifi claimed to be the first sub at £250 or under that they could recommend.
     
  13. Jeff

    Jeff
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    Even if this were true, it doesn't stop the fact that sending below 30Hz sound to your "full" range speakers will adversly affect it's reproduction above 30Hz.
     
  14. Brogan

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    It's not a case of 'even if it were true', it is true.

    Music and CDs generally don't contain LFE so I doubt there are many occasions where frequencies lower than 30Hz are sent to the fronts, unless you're into Acid Trance.
    Let's just agree to disagree on this.
    IMO, 'music' sounds better through a pair of 'full' range fronts rather than through a sat-sub system or, even worse, a pair of 'full' range speakers which have been castrated to send low frequencies to a single sub.
     
  15. Daneel

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    I'm finding that music is improved with my PC Ultra handling the bass. My 926s aren't truly full range (very few speakers are) but they close.

    One of the reasons I got the 926s in the first place was so I could avoid using a sub for music. It's interesting how things turn out sometimes.
     
  16. krusty

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    if your looking for a sub i can reccomend my sub VELODYNE VX10, its ideal for entry level use. if you have a some luck you may[ and probably will get a one on these forums]get a higher level model.
     
  17. Nimby

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    I think you'd be surprised to discover how much low frequency content is finding its way onto CD these days. There is a list on the SVS website.
    You might like to try The Blue Man Group's "Complex". Madonna, Peter Gabriel, Mike Oldfield & Satriani. All use very low frequencies regularly on their CDs.

    I run full range speakers but don't filter them. Adding an SVS subwoofer to my (sub 40Hz) speakers transformed the sound. Perhaps the reason you claim you can't hear 30Hz is simply because you don't have a decent subwoofer in your system? Mine goes comfortably down to 15Hz with low distortion and masses of headroom. :)

    The range of human hearing begins to fall off badly at 20Hz. Though some can hear down to 15Hz. I liken reproduction of such low frequencies to a toneless but continuous air movement. Air vibration is clearly present but without a recognisable tone to my ears. A soft flutter is my best description.

    Pure 30Hz without harmonics is easy to hear as a distinct tone. An SPL meter will clearly indicate the presence of very high SPLs at inaudibly low frequencies with my SVS subwoofer. :)

    Nimby
     
  18. Brogan

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    Some fair points well made Nimby.
    I still maintain that music sounds clearer without a sub capable of producing extremely low frequencies, even if they are or are not present in the source.
    When sound changes from being a sound to a vibration then it no longer adds to the 'musical' content of the listening experience.

    I'm more than happy to 'feel' huge explosions when watching action movies but my music I prefer to just listen to.

    As for human hearing, I used to get my ears tested regularly (part of military health checks) and I know mine is shot to hell at the lower end so I can't hear much past 50Hz anyway.

    As is the case with all things AV, it's down to personal preference.
     
  19. Nimby

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    How true! :)

    Nimby
     

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