D
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Apologies in advance for the Sunday afternoon ramble!
Some of you may recollect a number of my posts in which I extolled, some may say gloated (!), the in-room response I was getting from my B&W 604s3's, excepting for a huge room suck-out as you can see.
Bi-amped 3805
Recently I purchased a Denon POA-T10 power amp to work in tandem with my 3805's amps to bi-amp the front. Other than running auto setup for levels and distances, I haven't re-run any frequency plots in the Room Eq Wizard. The set up has been working very well and the only niggle I have is that the older power amp does not appear to have specifically a 12v switch that I can hook up to the receiver to be automatically turned off and on. As a result I have accidentally left it on all night, doing no harm except to my electricity bill and carbon emissions.
Multiple "sources"
Being a relative n00b to home cinema and not knowing which interconnect would provide the best results, I plumbed in my 2900 with Coax, Optical and of course 5.1 analogue for DVD-A/SACD. I assigned "DVD" to Coax, CD to Opt1 and CDR/Tape to EXT-In so it is easy to flick between and compare. At Christmas Father Christmas brought me a Pinnacle Showcenter for streaming music, films etc off my PC. Also as a comparator I have the same source on the Showcenter and DVD/CD and often do comparisons between all variants.
Large vs Small with and without (EQ'd) sub for music.
Still on this apparently never ending journey to perfection, and notwithstanding I have just got a new toy to play with, I've also been dabbling with the 3805 in different configurations in terms of Large vs Small speaker set up, and with and without the EQ'd sub in the equation for listening to music. Hence my recent "discovery" of the Blue Man Group's materials. Although it is clear that a sub is needed for movie material, I was not sure whether I was squeezing the best out of my set up as far as music was concerned, even multi-channel music at that.
Familiar material
It is only over time and with knowledge of your favourite material that one can really sit down, close ones eyes and listen to nuances in what you hear. So with that in mind I have been re-visiting Pink Floyds' "Wish You Were Here", track 1, Shine on you Crazy Diamond. There are some really low notes a couple of minutes into the track; low, powerful and yet controlled and understated. Although I have the 2 track Cd version I also have the multi-track DTS version which I think has some good LFE reinforcement in places. So it is that which I have been listening to now for over a week, including a DTS streamed via the Showcenter.
Subjective results
Whatever combination of Large vs Small speaker setup, with and without the sub and with or without LFE + Mains, it became clear to me that although the 604s3s can low, they go low with no EQ in place. As a result the lower end appeared to be quite loose and a tad boomy, but obviously not as boomy as an un-EQ'd sub. Even with the speakers set to small and an 80Hz XO, I was not entirely sure I was getting the best I could. But to be honest as I had EQ'd the sub to the best level I could get, and everything else appears to be working as designed I'm not sure what else I could do.
The "Floyd"
Last night I again sat down to listen the Floyd but decided I'd break out the DVD for some more Coax/Opt/Ext-In comparisons (I need to get out more!). Just as an aside the Denon 2900 analogue output is sublime and with the Denon in Pure Direct mode on EXT-In for all 5.1 channels, the sound far surpasses that which is produced via a digital link using the 3805 to process the source. I digress.
So I put on the DTS source in the 2900 and sat back to enjoy another few re-runs of track 1.
All of a sudden when reaching the low notes which are equally felt as they are heard, they were produced with such a startling clarity, control and power that I couldn't believe I had missed that result before. But wait a minute, I hadn't actually changed any settings on the amp, so why was I hearing a completely different and improved rendition?
Oops
Well, although I have on a number of nights inadvertently left my power amp on, it also appears I am capable of doing the exact opposite: not turning it on.
B&W 604S3 Bass Crossover
Intrigued with this finding I've been thinking about why this should be the case. I wondered about the material itself and whether there had been too much missing on the bass driver (my power amp drives the bass units only) when the power amp was off. But on investigation the 604S3's speakers are driven as follows: tweeter and midrange off the upper terminals and the bass drivers off the lower terminals. There is a 450Hz crossover for the bass drivers. So I cannot believe there was so much content between say 100 and 500Hz which would have been missing and which would have such a startling effect on the apparent ease of sub performance together with an apparent improvement in sub SQ.
Conclusions?
So is it fair to say that when one has a capable sub in place, that even with a crossover set at 80Hz, is it wise to have floorstanders which are apparently capable of colouring the sub well below the crossover level? Would it be better to have speakers which roll off at a higher level XO?
Secondly, as I already extract the main pre-outs to feed may power amps, and the fact that the bass drivers of the speakers run through a 450Hz crossover, would it be viable or desirable to run the L&R pre-outs through a BFD so as to get the same level of control which I apparently have achieved with my sub?
Sorry about the length of the post, but perhaps it's made for an entertaining read if nothing else!!
Some of you may recollect a number of my posts in which I extolled, some may say gloated (!), the in-room response I was getting from my B&W 604s3's, excepting for a huge room suck-out as you can see.
Bi-amped 3805
Recently I purchased a Denon POA-T10 power amp to work in tandem with my 3805's amps to bi-amp the front. Other than running auto setup for levels and distances, I haven't re-run any frequency plots in the Room Eq Wizard. The set up has been working very well and the only niggle I have is that the older power amp does not appear to have specifically a 12v switch that I can hook up to the receiver to be automatically turned off and on. As a result I have accidentally left it on all night, doing no harm except to my electricity bill and carbon emissions.
Multiple "sources"
Being a relative n00b to home cinema and not knowing which interconnect would provide the best results, I plumbed in my 2900 with Coax, Optical and of course 5.1 analogue for DVD-A/SACD. I assigned "DVD" to Coax, CD to Opt1 and CDR/Tape to EXT-In so it is easy to flick between and compare. At Christmas Father Christmas brought me a Pinnacle Showcenter for streaming music, films etc off my PC. Also as a comparator I have the same source on the Showcenter and DVD/CD and often do comparisons between all variants.
Large vs Small with and without (EQ'd) sub for music.
Still on this apparently never ending journey to perfection, and notwithstanding I have just got a new toy to play with, I've also been dabbling with the 3805 in different configurations in terms of Large vs Small speaker set up, and with and without the EQ'd sub in the equation for listening to music. Hence my recent "discovery" of the Blue Man Group's materials. Although it is clear that a sub is needed for movie material, I was not sure whether I was squeezing the best out of my set up as far as music was concerned, even multi-channel music at that.
Familiar material
It is only over time and with knowledge of your favourite material that one can really sit down, close ones eyes and listen to nuances in what you hear. So with that in mind I have been re-visiting Pink Floyds' "Wish You Were Here", track 1, Shine on you Crazy Diamond. There are some really low notes a couple of minutes into the track; low, powerful and yet controlled and understated. Although I have the 2 track Cd version I also have the multi-track DTS version which I think has some good LFE reinforcement in places. So it is that which I have been listening to now for over a week, including a DTS streamed via the Showcenter.
Subjective results
Whatever combination of Large vs Small speaker setup, with and without the sub and with or without LFE + Mains, it became clear to me that although the 604s3s can low, they go low with no EQ in place. As a result the lower end appeared to be quite loose and a tad boomy, but obviously not as boomy as an un-EQ'd sub. Even with the speakers set to small and an 80Hz XO, I was not entirely sure I was getting the best I could. But to be honest as I had EQ'd the sub to the best level I could get, and everything else appears to be working as designed I'm not sure what else I could do.
The "Floyd"
Last night I again sat down to listen the Floyd but decided I'd break out the DVD for some more Coax/Opt/Ext-In comparisons (I need to get out more!). Just as an aside the Denon 2900 analogue output is sublime and with the Denon in Pure Direct mode on EXT-In for all 5.1 channels, the sound far surpasses that which is produced via a digital link using the 3805 to process the source. I digress.
So I put on the DTS source in the 2900 and sat back to enjoy another few re-runs of track 1.
All of a sudden when reaching the low notes which are equally felt as they are heard, they were produced with such a startling clarity, control and power that I couldn't believe I had missed that result before. But wait a minute, I hadn't actually changed any settings on the amp, so why was I hearing a completely different and improved rendition?
Oops
Well, although I have on a number of nights inadvertently left my power amp on, it also appears I am capable of doing the exact opposite: not turning it on.
B&W 604S3 Bass Crossover
Intrigued with this finding I've been thinking about why this should be the case. I wondered about the material itself and whether there had been too much missing on the bass driver (my power amp drives the bass units only) when the power amp was off. But on investigation the 604S3's speakers are driven as follows: tweeter and midrange off the upper terminals and the bass drivers off the lower terminals. There is a 450Hz crossover for the bass drivers. So I cannot believe there was so much content between say 100 and 500Hz which would have been missing and which would have such a startling effect on the apparent ease of sub performance together with an apparent improvement in sub SQ.
Conclusions?
So is it fair to say that when one has a capable sub in place, that even with a crossover set at 80Hz, is it wise to have floorstanders which are apparently capable of colouring the sub well below the crossover level? Would it be better to have speakers which roll off at a higher level XO?
Secondly, as I already extract the main pre-outs to feed may power amps, and the fact that the bass drivers of the speakers run through a 450Hz crossover, would it be viable or desirable to run the L&R pre-outs through a BFD so as to get the same level of control which I apparently have achieved with my sub?
Sorry about the length of the post, but perhaps it's made for an entertaining read if nothing else!!