Sub With High Crossover Frequency

gdickin2

Member
Hi, I need to replace the sub in my 5.1 cinema system (posted a question in the Home Cinema Speakers forum - but can't delete it).

My satellites have a very high LF crossover point of 280Hz (Mission M Cubes) so really need a sub that is capable of going up to 300Hz to fill in the lower midrange gaps.

Can anyone suggest a Sub that is capable of covering up to this high level?
Cheers.
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
You need a avr that has high crossover point. So even if a sub has high crossover point I'd your avr only goes upto 160hz it's irrelevant the sub has 300hz dial.
 

Dolus

Active Member
You don't set the crossover on the sub you set it in the AVR so that is where you should look.

@rccarguy2 You beat me to it. :)
 

rccarguy2

Well-known Member
One solution is to use a AV with ability for full range from the subwoofer pre out (my lexicon mc-8 has this) however then you need a sub with 300hz dial on the back.... pretty sure that doesnt exist


Time to buy new bigger speakers
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hi, I need to replace the sub in my 5.1 cinema system (posted a question in the Home Cinema Speakers forum - but can't delete it).

My satellites have a very high LF crossover point of 280Hz (Mission M Cubes) so really need a sub that is capable of going up to 300Hz to fill in the lower midrange gaps.

Can anyone suggest a Sub that is capable of covering up to this high level?
Cheers.

Look new speakers. Minx Min 12 would be similar size, but much better. For some reason they have removed the S215 package with the sub (5x Min 12 + X201 sub) that went for 399£ or so. You can always ask could RS make you deal for it.

This package:
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
@AndreNewman may be able to help, he's mentioned before that his Monos go particularly high. Would they cover this?
A lot of subs have a LPF disable switch or setting but that's really so the AVR or processor doesn't have it's crossover and the subs one combining. It's not really meant to facilitate using a _sub_woofer as a woofer or mid range or a tweeter for that matter!

Yes Monoliths go quite high when the LPF is switched off but it's really only interesting for comedy value rather than hifi. I probably have a sweep somewhere if someone wants a laugh.
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
Actually I'm about to do some measurements to compare a loaner PSA S1500 to my Monolith and Monolith+ in the same locations. I could sweep all three up to 20kHz to see what happens :cool:
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
For most sub-sat systems, the sub is connected to the main outputs, not the sub output, as it's not really a true Low Frequency Effect "sub", but simply the low frequency element of the main speakers.

The M-Cube is similar to the Bose Lifestyle systems in that it not only utilises the LFE output, but also extracts the low frequency from the main speakers at the same time. It's worth checking if the filtering removes the bass before it is sent to the speakers, as if not, you risk damaging the speakers if you run them without the sub

Therefore, you really need a sub designed for this configuration and that produces energy at higher frequencies.

If the sub is still working, you can continue to use it as the low frequency element for your main speakers and then get a new sub just for LFE, lightening the load on the existing unit.
 

gdickin2

Member
Thanks guys, I am leaning towards replacing the whole system to ensure consistent performance.
The BK XLS200 is an interesting proposition though if it can bridge that gap (unfortunately out of stock).
Richer aren't doing a package on Min12+sub at the moment so having to get those seaprately would run me to £650-£750 depending on sub. Not a problem but are they worth it!
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
Ok here we go:

Monolith+ full range (was plugged into the Center channel), useful output up to 500Hz.

Mono+Fullrange.png


I changed the range down to 5Hz to do justice to the PSA S1500, again useful output to 500Hz.

PSAS1500Fullrange.png

Ignore the huge hole between 30Hz and 60Hz, that's the location, it's used for 30 and below.

So despite me extracting the Michael, either of these subs would crossover perfectly well at 200Hz or higher if needed, probably all of the BK subs will behave similarly, the amps are variations on the same design.

I'd want two left and right to avoid localisation but should work fine.
 

AndreNewman

Active Member
Thanks guys, I am leaning towards replacing the whole system to ensure consistent performance.
The BK XLS200 is an interesting proposition though if it can bridge that gap (unfortunately out of stock).
Richer aren't doing a package on Min12+sub at the moment so having to get those seaprately would run me to £650-£750 depending on sub. Not a problem but are they worth it!
Take a look at collossusxb on eBay it's BK's slight seconds, there a couple of XXLS400's on there right now. Or the bk ebay shop, both are official BK outlets.
 

gdickin2

Member
Take a look at collossusxb on eBay it's BK's slight seconds, there a couple of XXLS400's on there right now. Or the bk ebay shop, both are official BK outlets.
400 is going to be too big for the area available - any knowledge of the Double Gem and whether that would go up to 300Hz point if the AV amp allows it?
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
There's some info in this thread - including actual measurements from a Gemini 2:

 

AndreNewman

Active Member
400 is going to be too big for the area available - any knowledge of the Double Gem and whether that would go up to 300Hz point if the AV amp allows it?
Ah, ok, I only knew about the 400's because I'm considering 3 or 4 slightly smaller sealed subs to replace two Monoliths.

All the BKs use variations on the same amp board, I noticed they have more output driver transistors and a bigger power supply transformer in the 500W version than the 300W one but the board is otherwise the same. So probably the output response will be very similar, smaller drivers will work at higher frequencies unless BK filter them and you can turn the filter off.

Ring Tom at BK and ask him, don't email, they haven't got the hang of email yet, answers come out monthly if at all. They are really helpful and can probably suggest the best fit, you really don't get better value for money than BK, a proper sub for less money than some shiny but crappy fashion thing.

The guy I bought my Monolith from had replaced it with a double gem, sounded pretty good for it's size and floor footprint. Good low frequency extension, just not the output level of the Monolith. The Monolith was shaking his floors, rattling plates in the kitchen and probably his neighbours too so I'm not surprised he changed it.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
400 is going to be too big for the area available - any knowledge of the Double Gem and whether that would go up to 300Hz point if the AV amp allows it?

It wouldn`t make any sense to spend that much for subwoofer while the speakers are crap. Seriously buy new speakers too. If you can opt for something larger then the better! If you look the CA Minxes there is big thread here and AVSForum (US) for them, very popular. However after owning the 10 model many years ago for effect channels i would consider 22 for the front three and 12 for surround l/r as minium. They still ain`t got nothing to say compared to Kef Eggs (HTS3001) or B&W M1 or Monitor Audio Radius 90 or Q Acoustics 7000i all which are very small still.
 

gdickin2

Member
Researching further against what I can accomodate I am going to go with 3 Minx Min22s for L/C/R and 2 Minx Min12 for rears.
Challenge remains the sub which needs to be limited in size - approx 30cm to 35cm square. Appreciate this seriously limits possibilities but I have no choice.
Second challenge is it also needs to be good with music too as I intend to also feed a high level input to supplement my KEF LS50s along with an LFE from my AV amp.
Any suggestions on something suitable for this would be really appreciated?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Researching further against what I can accomodate I am going to go with 3 Minx Min22s for L/C/R and 2 Minx Min12 for rears.
Challenge remains the sub which needs to be limited in size - approx 30cm to 35cm square. Appreciate this seriously limits possibilities but I have no choice.
Second challenge is it also needs to be good with music too as I intend to also feed a high level input to supplement my KEF LS50s along with an LFE from my AV amp.
Any suggestions on something suitable for this would be really appreciated?

Call BK Electronics right away and ask when they get the XLS 200 - DF back in stock. It has high level neutrik connection and LFE, knobs for both.


Dimensions:340D X 355H x 290W



If you want better sub then call AVO and ask how much they can drop price for SVS SB1000 cause this is old model and the prices listed are NOT normal. These should go 100£ less or so. High level speaker level input included.
Dimensions (H x W x D)330mm x 330mm x 330mm




sb1000back_l_5-large.jpg
 

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