Sub to work with B&W 603s2 (from 1999)

gazzaboy

Active Member
Fair points, I guess the coffee's not quite kicked in yet for my thinking... I'll have a play over the next few days. At this rate I'll be buying a PC4000 by the end of the month... :)
 

SPINO

Well-known Member
Hi def try to get a hold of a REL T9, should be some offers out there with the new model out

I use 2 of them with my B&W 607s and they sound fab
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
The OP's now looking at getting a 1200W 13.5" ported sub so I suspect a 300W 10" sealed sub isn't going to hit the spot somehow.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I hate to be damp squib but I wouldn't put much faith in these Audyssey charts as the red line is only a prediction, not a measurement. Also, as Audyssey doesn't employ a quality calibrated microphone, its ability to measure and EQ bass accurately is fundamentally limited even if it had sufficiently capable filter resolution. In fact no EQ system would be able to flatten out those green line nulls at 50Hz/80Hz like the red line chart depicts here, only additional subs or changing sub/MLP locations would have a chance of doing that.

Obviously Audyssey's better than nothing but I would suggest that anyone wanting to accurately measure how flat their bass response is should invest in a UMIK-1 measurement microphone and run REW sweeps. The only problem this may cause is that it would probably show that you need at least two subwoofers to get what you want.

XT32 at least should be very effective flattening peaks for subwoofer/speakers from what i have seen on other forums. The lower versions has left some peaks. There was also direct comparison in room vs. Dirac Live and it did good! Sure it could be even better with calibrated mic. @Conrad was fairly satisfied what the XT32 did with subwoofers (Marantz processor) from what i remember. Clearly miniDSP is superior for him.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
XT32 at least should be very effective flattening peaks for subwoofer/speakers from what i have seen on other forums. The lower versions has left some peaks. There was also direct comparison in room vs. Dirac Live and it did good! Sure it could be even better with calibrated mic. @Conrad was fairly satisfied what the XT32 did with subwoofers (Marantz processor) from what i remember. Clearly miniDSP is superior for him.
I agree but I've also seen many REW measured bass sweep charts post-Audyssey EQ where it introduced significant dips that weren't there before! That must surely be down to poor measurement and/or filter resolution. Either way, I personally wouldn't want to be relying on it unless I could measure what it's actually doing. That way, I could at least have a go at tweaking it manually to get a better result.
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
Just had a play with the T-7 in the room - loved the extra it added to music, not least the few test clips I had to try with movies. Thinking that the PB1000pro is probably the most likely at the moment, though I could be moved up to either the PC2000pro or SB/PB2000 pros if there was a bargain to be had - keeping an eye out in the coming months. Also realised I'd totally forgotten about the BK 12" passive radiator sub. Anyone got any experience of these? Any advantage of this over the SVS?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Just had a play with the T-7 in the room - loved the extra it added to music, not least the few test clips I had to try with movies. Thinking that the PB1000pro is probably the most likely at the moment, though I could be moved up to either the PC2000pro or SB/PB2000 pros if there was a bargain to be had - keeping an eye out in the coming months. Also realised I'd totally forgotten about the BK 12" passive radiator sub. Anyone got any experience of these? Any advantage of this over the SVS?

Advantages, well the smaller cabinet size and finish wood veneer to suit room decor better. Performance, warranty (5y vs. 2y), useability (app control) wise SVS takes the cake. There is also the regular PC2000 going for 425£ by Stefan who has surely taken good care of these.
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
I came very close to pulling the trigger on a PB2000 Pro, but looked at a mockup of the size of it, and it was a little too big for the space I had to fit it in. So thinking now about the REL HT1205, SB2000pro (waiting for a deal) the PB1000Pro and the Arendal that @Gasp3621 mentioned. Having a bit of fun mocking up in fusion 360, to get an idea of sizes. I think the PC2000 might be a little too big, even in the corner.
Anyone got experience of the Arendal, and how it performs compared to the others in the short list?
As ever, your thoughts much appreciated.

As a little off topic note, found some tunes that sound bloody good on the 603s and will only benefit from a sub - Cut Chemist - The Audience is Listening.... give it a whirl. Cheers.
 

DaveWillo

Member
I came very close to pulling the trigger on a PB2000 Pro, but looked at a mockup of the size of it, and it was a little too big for the space I had to fit it in. So thinking now about the REL HT1205, SB2000pro (waiting for a deal) the PB1000Pro and the Arendal that @Gasp3621 mentioned. Having a bit of fun mocking up in fusion 360, to get an idea of sizes. I think the PC2000 might be a little too big, even in the corner.
Anyone got experience of the Arendal, and how it performs compared to the others in the short list?
As ever, your thoughts much appreciated.

As a little off topic note, found some tunes that sound bloody good on the 603s and will only benefit from a sub - Cut Chemist - The Audience is Listening.... give it a whirl. Cheers.
Sounds great, even after 25 years 😁
20210625_165016.jpg
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I came very close to pulling the trigger on a PB2000 Pro, but looked at a mockup of the size of it, and it was a little too big for the space I had to fit it in. So thinking now about the REL HT1205, SB2000pro (waiting for a deal) the PB1000Pro and the Arendal that @Gasp3621 mentioned. Having a bit of fun mocking up in fusion 360, to get an idea of sizes. I think the PC2000 might be a little too big, even in the corner.
Anyone got experience of the Arendal, and how it performs compared to the others in the short list?
As ever, your thoughts much appreciated.

As a little off topic note, found some tunes that sound bloody good on the 603s and will only benefit from a sub - Cut Chemist - The Audience is Listening.... give it a whirl. Cheers.

The Arendal 1961 1S is good product. It actually won subwoofer group test few months back where the SB2000 Pro was too. Their site is down but check it later.

@StefanBFC just bought one and sold he´s dual PC2000 for house move. He is quite impressed, still not even optimized everything. At the members showcase section we have members with dual of those 1S in dedicated cinema room so they are no slouch.

Of course the PB1000 Pro will have even more performance overall and being ported it will sound quite different at least when pushed. It´s also cheaper at well below 600£ when you calculate -10% discount. REL is bit more lacking in the deep bass range with more steeper roll off, but excells more in the chest slam region as we have seen the natural response which is little boosted there. I would still take Arendal over it!
 

StefanBFC

Well-known Member
I'm happy with the 1961 1s so far. I did love the PC-2000's but sometimes for a living they just take over, for everyday general viewing. Especially being ported, I think I will miss them to be honest but I think that's because I had two and only one 1961 1s (so far)

I'm really impressed with it though, especially the low end for a sealed in such a small cabinet.
Personally, I think eventually I'd like to add a second to fully compare.

I've not ran Dirac yet either, I've also read they take a good 20 hours to fully open up. I've not regretted buying it. I've had it exactly 1 week, the wife thinks its the best change I've done so far, she hated ported.
IMG_20210626_084354.jpg
Cost was £722 after VAT and card charge.
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
@StefanBFC , @Gasp3621 and @DaveWillo , thanks for the thoughts. Really am torn between the local option of going to a place with presence in the UK, or going the direct route with Arendal.
The Arendel does tick most of the boxes though and I'd love to hear it aganist the SVS, @Gasp3621 you mentioned a 10% discount - have looked around, but can't seem to find any mention - any tips?

Cheers again - at this point, think I'm suffering from a bit of analysis paralysis, and probably will be happy whichever route I go down...

@DaveWillo - nice to see another set of 603s going strong, the hound looks appreciative! :)
 

vm1451

Active Member

Will give 10% discount when your signed up.

I've also got a some 603's and running a REL Strata III alongside. An Antimode made a huge difference, along with bunging the ports to all the B&W's and removing the passives from the 603's. Picture taken during "set up playtime"!!*

* No harm came to any speakers during this process!! :D
 

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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
@StefanBFC , @Gasp3621 and @DaveWillo , thanks for the thoughts. Really am torn between the local option of going to a place with presence in the UK, or going the direct route with Arendal.
The Arendel does tick most of the boxes though and I'd love to hear it aganist the SVS, @Gasp3621 you mentioned a 10% discount - have looked around, but can't seem to find any mention - any tips?

Cheers again - at this point, think I'm suffering from a bit of analysis paralysis, and probably will be happy whichever route I go down...

@DaveWillo - nice to see another set of 603s going strong, the hound looks appreciative! :)

It´s not usually just the performance side of things affecting the decision so you need to consider it from multiple angles.

Forum advertisers will usually give you -10% discount when you mention that you are AVF member. @Tom @ Cinehome does too, send him PM/email/call if you want SVS product. Looks to be in stock and free shipping.
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
It´s not usually just the performance side of things affecting the decision so you need to consider it from multiple angles.

Forum advertisers will usually give you -10% discount when you mention that you are AVF member. @Tom @ Cinehome does too, send him PM/email/call if you want SVS product. Looks to be in stock and free shipping.
Yeah - it's getting to the point of having a few whiskies and then thinking sod it.... engage credit card and buyers remorse several days later.... ;-)
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
It´s not usually just the performance side of things affecting the decision so you need to consider it from multiple angles.

Forum advertisers will usually give you -10% discount when you mention that you are AVF member. @Tom @ Cinehome does too, send him PM/email/call if you want SVS product. Looks to be in stock and free shipping.
yeah - just seen a few SB2000 pros on Audiovisual online's warehouse, with the VIP discount, I'm looking at similar price for that and the Arendal, and with the PB1000 pro. Just that toss up between going ported and sealed, and the convenience of eq via an app, if it's likely to be used... Hoping to make a decision soon.

@vm1451 I saw that photo before reading the text, I thought I could never bring myself to do that....

and Re: my previous post, the whiskies never happened, I was too engrossed in the Euros last night. Stand by for 5pm disappointment after those two games!
 

vm1451

Active Member
To be honest it looks drastic but is very easy to do, and more importantly, it's a mod that's fully reversible! The blanking plates were made from 22mm board that I had anyway so the blanks cost nothing to make, (other than electricity to power the router!).

The point being is that you can not modify any sound coming from the passives, and the sound from these will always be "laggy". I did look at changing the 603's for a pair of Q750s until I realised that they had two passive radiators each side, so effectively out of the frying pan etc etc.
 

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gazzaboy

Active Member
To be honest it looks drastic but is very easy to do, and more importantly, it's a mod that's fully reversible! The blanking plates were made from 22mm board that I had anyway so the blanks cost nothing to make, (other than electricity to power the router!).

The point being is that you can not modify any sound coming from the passives, and the sound from these will always be "laggy". I did look at changing the 603's for a pair of Q750s until I realised that they had two passive radiators each side, so effectively out of the frying pan etc etc.
Wow, I'd never thought of the lower drivers being laggy. But yeah, there's got to be some phase difference between them and the mains. I guess in blocking everything up you've created pretty much a floorstanding 602.... I do often wonder about switching back to standmounters (and a sub) but the 603s keep persuading me not to. - Though I'm sure one rainy day, I'll fire up my old Mission 760iSE which are on rear duty at the moment and see how they play with whichever sub I end up with..
 

vm1451

Active Member
Thats my point mate, they 'aint drivers! There are others on here with way more knowledge then I'll ever have so maybe they can come up with better explanations. To me though, passive radiators are a cheap way to get bass that will sound cheap! :D Taking them out has tightened everything up, that and the Antimode for the sub. I'm sure I could make it all better by moving the speakers and getting another sub, but as I've said elsewhere, it's a living room first and foremost!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
yeah - just seen a few SB2000 pros on Audiovisual online's warehouse, with the VIP discount, I'm looking at similar price for that and the Arendal, and with the PB1000 pro. Just that toss up between going ported and sealed, and the convenience of eq via an app, if it's likely to be used... Hoping to make a decision soon.

Your total room space would push me toward ported and perhaps just for a sake of change to get something more fun with plenty of impact if that`s your thing? Keep in mind that you can drive the PB1000 Pro in sealed mode too, put bungs in and set it sealed from the app. :) For 575£ it looks like a winner! Sadly the finish isn´t as sexy as you would want and small thing like this can come haunt you later so you need to be sure it ticks all the boxes for you.
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
@Gasp3621 I see what your saying, going back to my original intentions, of getting a sub mostly for movies (on this system), which is about adding essentially the sub 50Hz bass to the 603s. Thinking for the price, you're right about the pb1000 pro, so that might be a decision... Maybe think about putting the saved £££s to renewing the old plasma in the lounge...
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
Once again thanks all for the advice and insight. I ended up plumping for the PB1000pro, expecting it tomorrow sometime. Look forward to angering all around me with some deep thuds....
A few good old Leftfield tracks lined up for the weekend...
 

gazzaboy

Active Member
Finally settled on the pb1000 pro, no regrets. Had a few hours revisiting my favourite explosions before settling down to watch some stuff properly. Really enjoying the effect from the sub, surprisingly good with music too.
Just watched tenet, and with the sub, wow. It was good on the 603s but bashing the effects out through the sub. Gut punching fun.
 

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