Question Sub to compliment Dali Oberon 5's

Maxxeh

Member
I'm considering 2x Dali Oberon 5's with a Dali Oberon Vokal as centre, 2x Oberon 1's as surround, 2x Dali E60 for atmos, and a Sony DN1080.

I have read that the Dali sub's aren't the best, so asked about changing the sub, and was recommended the REL Tzero.

I'm moving into a new build, semi detached, dot/dab house, so I think bass will travel easily to the neighbors.
Although the sub will be approx 5 metres away from the party wall, and on a concrete floor, I'd rather have something responsive than super loud to avoid complaints.

Do you think the TZero is a good match for my needs? Or is there a better solution I could purchase at a similar price?

Thanks very much.
 

TB Rich

Active Member
I've got a Tzero and it supports my Dali Zensor 1 in my 2nd system, there is no way it is good enough to support Oberon 5's. It neither has the total output, or the bottom end extension.

Depending on the your room size(?), I'd be looking at something from BK, SVS etc.
 

Maxxeh

Member
I was just reading about the frequencies, and it looks like the Tzero bottoms out at 38hz and the Oberon 5's have a low of 39hz, so the sub would only be 1hz lower than the FL and FR!


1600867703292.png



This is the space I'm working with. So essentially, a 5.35m * 2.92m rectangle, with a 1.8m * 3.46m L shape.

I'm planning to have the TV opposite the sofa in the image, with surround/rear either side of the desk (as I cannot have them at 110/120)

The East wall is the neighbor. East, South, and West walls are dot and dab/dry lined. The north walls are stud partitions into other rooms. The floor is concrete in the lower rectangle and chipboard flooring in the upper rectangle of the L.
 

giggsy1950

Active Member
I guess it depends how big your budget is but I would always buy as good a sub as you can, unless it's a small room or you don't want to disturb neighbours! BK and SVS would be my first port of call.
 

TB Rich

Active Member
Just looked up my old REW result when I setup my Tzero, to be fair for what it is, it's damn good! But that is in a small space and clearly picking up some good room gain in terms of extension. It won't be big enough in your space though is the issue, with respect to output. And of course your O5's will cover a good bit below what the Z1's are giving here too.

tzero.PNG


I've got a BK 400 in a 5.5x3.5m space and it's plenty. For some insane reason I ordered another (mostly as I wanted a new finish), it'll be overkill but I'll see what benefits there are before deciding to sell the original or not!

I'd think a BK XXLS400 will be your best bet at the price point. £400 for a grade b in a regular finish. Or, a pair of XLS200's might be good, would likely allow for a more consistent bass response.

SB2000, Arendal 1961 1S - the kind of usual culprits round here, all are a fair bit more money again, and compared to the Tzero pricing I suspect it'll rule them out.
As far as REL go your looking at probably a T7i for that space, fairly pricey also. And a T5i might just struggle a bit, that said with the adjoined neighbours if you're not pushing it then it may be just ok. But it's what it can offer over the O5's is another question mark on it - I think you'd be disappointed.

Maybe get the speakers first and see how they do in-room. £100 on a UMIK mic and an hour installing and learning REW is the best money you can spend as far as subs goes. It'll show what your mains can do, and then set your budget and expectations accordingly for the sub purchase - and the mic's sell 2nd hand with little loss too!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
I'm considering 2x Dali Oberon 5's with a Dali Oberon Vokal as centre, 2x Oberon 1's as surround, 2x Dali E60 for atmos, and a Sony DN1080.

I have read that the Dali sub's aren't the best, so asked about changing the sub, and was recommended the REL Tzero.

I'm moving into a new build, semi detached, dot/dab house, so I think bass will travel easily to the neighbors.
Although the sub will be approx 5 metres away from the party wall, and on a concrete floor, I'd rather have something responsive than super loud to avoid complaints.

Do you think the TZero is a good match for my needs? Or is there a better solution I could purchase at a similar price?

Thanks very much.
Swap those expensive ceiling speakers to something cheaper, example KEF Ci130ER and put the 150£ saved in to better receiver, subwoofer etc! No need to buy "matching" ceiling speakers. You are looking to buy 2017 model Sony which misses some newer features and still has bugs, also it has some limitation with DTS:X and ceiling speakers? Denon X2600H/X2700H or Yamaha RX-V6A would be more ideal. Don´t read the WhatHifi review of Sony like gospel. There is heavy advertisement involved and the reviews are glowing for certain reasons..

Here is the BK XXLS400 which was mentioned, new grade-b in mint shape with 2year warranty on amp! Made in UK. Few finishes and driver orientation FF/DF available.


 

Maxxeh

Member
I guess it depends...
Thanks for the advice, I'll have a look at both - I'm mostly choosing my sub based on the neighbors!

Just looked up my old REW result when I setup my Tzero...
This is some brilliant advice! I've watched a few hours of information about REW today, and it looks very interesting. Definitely seems like something I'd enjoy doing!

I don't think I can afford two XLS200's, so what I'm hearing is: buy a XXLS400 !

Swap those expensive ceiling speakers to something cheaper...
Interesting. do you not think having quality speakers up top is worth while? I thought they may help fill in a little closer to the seating area, as I have to have my surrounds so far back. I went for the higher quality E60 rather than the E50, but the ones you linked are even cheaper!

The problem with changing things and upgrading others, is that it is a local shop that is price matching this deal: Denon AVR-X2600H AV Receiver with Dali Oberon 5 AV Speaker System with E9F Sub But they don't stock Denon so offered the Sony. I like the look of the Sony UI and obviously, the reviews seem great. I also requested a price without the sub as I'd heard bad things about the Dali E9F.

Currently they're offering
  • Sony STRDN1080
  • 2 x Dali Oberon 5
  • 1 x Dali Oberon Vokal
  • 2 x Dali Oberon 1
  • No subwoofer
For approx. £1264 - with the E60's added for under 300.
I'm also buying an LG 65GX from them!

I was then going to choose another sub at a later date. It certainly seems like the XXLS400 is highly recommended.

If I was to buy a X2700H and a XXLS400 I'd already be close to that budget without any speakers!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
While the KEFs are cheap i`m fairly sure they are not slouch as you can read in the owner reviews on that site. KEF is well known from the UniQ coaxial driver technology with wide dispersion so i don´t see you going wrong with them. Sure the Dalis are good no doubt, but you could easily go with the smaller E50 then too. That is the difference between those two models, no better sound quality just larger mid-bass driver on E60 which in your case is not really needed as you will be listening moderate volume.

Just today some member said he is sick and tired of the Sonys bug(s) and moving to better receiver, i need to find it. Here is the feature comparison for the 450£ costing X2600H (2019) vs. 1080 (2017):

Oh and here is quote from member who talks about the another issue of Sony:

The Sony has issues you'd not have if using a Denon or for that matter most if not any other make of receiver. Sony have for some unknown reason made it so that ceiling speakers cannot be used to portray DTS:X or be engaged while using Neural:X upmixing. No other manufacturer prevents ceiling speakers from being used with DTS:X or Neural:X. If you wanted a setup that can portray both Atmos and DTS:X then you'd have to have a setup that employs height speakers instead of ceiling speakers.
So i don`t see any point going for 3year old model for the price which could get you newer receiver with better features, no bugs, no limitations with 6year warranty! It was 429£ few days ago so there is some air in the price still.

X2700H adds HDMI 2.1 (8K) input and two outputs with the features that are more for gamers with the new consoles. But as you are buying new LG tv it has 2.1 hdmi connections so you should be able to connect the console straight to tv and the eARC in X2600H should be enough then.

Why not ask good package deal from Peter Tyson? They price match and sell these bundle deals without subwoofers too!
 

Maxxeh

Member
KEFs

Sony/Denon

Why not ask good package deal from Peter Tyson? They price match and sell these bundle deals without subwoofers too!
Thanks so much for the advice on the ceiling speakers. I picked them completely blindly, and you're absolutely right. I don't really know what I'm picking, so I should take your advice before shelling out more money for something I'd likely not notice.

It is a shame that my dealer does not supply Denon, but I can ask them what other receivers they can supply.

I imagine I'd enjoy the x2700h, but I think it's out of my price range. I'm trying to get a HDMI cable from my PC to the AVR, as well as the consoles (both I'm planning to have HDMI 2.1), but I think with dot and dab, running them from the office is not an easy feat. It's great to know that I can simply use the TV inputs. I have never used an AVR and I was imagining the source changing between TV remote and AVR remote would be a pain.

That's definitely a concern about the Sony and ceiling speakers. It would render the setup much less useful. What a huge oversight!

I much prefer how the denon looks, and I love that it has a phono-in. This means I could use my home theatre as a giant guitar amp! I'm a little heartbroken about not having a chromecast, though I'm assuming the Gx is smart enough without it.

The only reason I'm choosing to go with my local supplier is as sense of loyalty that they're a local dealer and they're not a huge brand. Unfortunately, your information on the sony means I may have to steer away from them if they can't supply a better receiver!

As you seem to be very knowledgeable, do you think the Oberon ones are overkill for surround/rears? I'm planning to spend a huge amount of money in one day, and I already appreciate the cost saving on the ceiling speakers (perhaps not so much the cost increase on the sub and the AVR!) I can't seem to get a quote form an electrician on fitting the cables either, so I have no idea how much this whole setup will end up costing!
 
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TB Rich

Active Member
This is some brilliant advice! I've watched a few hours of information about REW today, and it looks very interesting. Definitely seems like something I'd enjoy doing!

I don't think I can afford two XLS200's, so what I'm hearing is: buy a XXLS400 !
I bought it for sub setup but I used it again a few days ago to see if I could maximise the position of my fronts in terms of toe and distance out from the wall - I ended up needing just a slight tweak to the right speaker and pulling out a few cm's to match the left speaker, and it responded with a better response up high. In listening it genuinely is noticeable with more energy up top and the soundstage has improved, I get a better sense of depth.

I guess nothing you couldn't do mostly with a tape measure, and my results are not unexpected as it's coming knowledge to have your speakers absolutely equal in their spacing for best soundstage etc. But using REW was fairly fun and takes the guess work out of it as you can see when you are at the right point. Also I found pulling my speaker too far out from the wall created big nulls at 100hz, so they liked where I had eyeballed it originally! :)

Back to subs though, yeah can't go wrong with a XXLS400..., placement is critical though (see REW! 😂 )
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks so much for the advice on the ceiling speakers. I picked them completely blindly, and you're absolutely right. I don't really know what I'm picking, so I should take your advice before shelling out more money for something I'd likely not notice.

It is a shame that my dealer does not supply Denon, but I can ask them what other receivers they can supply.

I imagine I'd enjoy the x2700h, but I think it's out of my price range. I'm trying to get a HDMI cable from my PC to the AVR, as well as the consoles (both I'm planning to have HDMI 2.1), but I think with dot and dab, running them from the office is not an easy feat. It's great to know that I can simply use the TV inputs. I have never used an AVR and I was imagining the source changing between TV remote and AVR remote would be a pain.

That's definitely a concern about the Sony and ceiling speakers. It would render the setup much less useful. What a huge oversight!

I much prefer how the denon looks, and I love that it has a phono-in. This means I could use my home theatre as a giant guitar amp! I'm a little heartbroken about not having a chromecast, though I'm assuming the Gx is smart enough without it.

The only reason I'm choosing to go with my local supplier is as sense of loyalty that they're a local dealer and they're not a huge brand. Unfortunately, your information on the sony means I may have to steer away from them if they can't supply a better receiver!

As you seem to be very knowledgeable, do you think the Oberon ones are overkill for surround/rears? I'm planning to spend a huge amount of money in one day, and I already appreciate the cost saving on the ceiling speakers (perhaps not so much the cost increase on the sub and the AVR!) I can't seem to get a quote form an electrician on fitting the cables either, so I have no idea how much this whole setup will end up costing!
Yeah nothing against Sony, just the bugs/limitation has caught my eye and the fact that it still costs same as newer models.

If tight on money then the X2600H (2019) for similar price as Sony. There really isn´t much of other options in the 400£ mark. Yamaha has sold out the V685 already. When you know the exact system you want send emails or call to Peter Tyson and Richer Sounds. Not sure does any other ones have the X2600H in stock anymore.. There can be differences in the total price so worth to compete them.

No i don´t think Oberon 1 would be overkill, but i know they are not cheap either (350£/pair). If you want to save money then pick 2nd hand Dali Zensor 1 from gumtree/ebay assuming you find matching finish. It`s the earlier model which is close enough and i don`t think you would notice much of any difference with the effects. Oh and they go around 100£/pair so fair bit of saving. :) I would want them more apart than the computer table allows. They are not surround backs. I would use the width of that rear wall and spread them apart more, buy some cheap 600-700mm tall speaker stands to each corner. AudioVisualOnline has Fisual brand, but 2nd hand you might get even cheaper. What matters is the top plate size vs. speaker size so it won´t look goofy as Oberon/Zensor 1 are small bookshelf speakers.

Talking about saving money if your use is mostly movies/gaming you wouldn´t even need floorstanding main speakers to begin with. Example Zensor 3s would fill that space with ease and be more than enough for even 2ch listening. I heard the earlier version Zensor 5 to Oberon 5 and they don´t have strong low end so i think for most people it´s about getting the better look. By all means go that route if you feel they look better than bulky Oberon 3 + stands. They are very slim and small when you see them live, the floorstanders. I was suprised. Oberon 3 + stands would cost roughly 550£, Oberon 5s 700£. You just got think about long term what makes you happy as you watch them daily for many years to come so don´t save on something that doesn´t satisfy you (looks). Buyers remorse would be horrible..
 

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