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Sub output on Marantz 6200

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by sdl, Jun 12, 2002.

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  1. sdl

    sdl
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    I am new to this forum and would appreciate some advice. I am not new to the a/v world, but I am in know way an audiophile.

    I just purchased a Marantz 6200 receiver and have it running my Polk psw-150 powered sub (200 watts/10" sub). My previous receiver was a Technics SADX-930. Of course the Marantz runs cirlcles around the Technics except when it comes to the sub output (t.v./movies) . I only used one channel on the rear of the sub and had the sub volume turned only half way when it was hooked up to the Technics.

    Now that I have it hooked up to the Marantz I have the sub volume turned up 3/4 and am using both channels on the rear of the sub. I also have the sub level on the receiver set at 10 out of 15. I've read reviews about this sub that said it's not good at producing room shaking bass, but it did pretty well when hooked up to the Technics. I know that speakers will sound different with different audio equipment, but I surely thought that the Marantz would have this sub moving out of its stationary spot without me having to turn all of the levels way up. I have the crossover on the back of the sub set at it's lowest point which is about 50hz.

    It does pretty good with music, but t.v/movie sub output is seriously lacking. I am still learning this receiver. Is there something about the Marantz that I don't know or do I have to buy a better sub. Is there anything that I can try to increase the output.

    Thanks.
     
  2. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    Try setting all your speakers to small on the amp and then set the cross-over on the sub to the max e.g. 150. I would also remove 1 of the cables to the sub, has I'm sure you are only supposed to have 1, although on some subs 1 input is better than the other.

    Just a few suggestions, see how you get on :)
     
  3. Reiner

    Reiner
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    ... am using both channels on the rear of the sub.

    Do you mean line level (RCA/phono connection) or high level (speaker wires) inputs?
    If high level, do the speakers connect directly to the amp and hence are parellel to the sub or are the wired from the sub (speaker out)?

    - Generally the first connection (line level) is preferred or rather sufficient for AV setups.
    In that case the AV amp will take care of the bassmanagement (x-over frequency fixed around 80-100Hz or, on newer models, can be set). The x-over at the sub should be set to the max then, i.e. highest frequency there is.
    For watching TV or soundtracks in DPL the sub will then normally keep quiet unless you set the front/main speakers to SMALL.
    (And remember to set the SUB to YES in the AV amp's setup.)

    - If you however connect via high / speaker level make sure to route the LFE to the front speakers (via the menu of the AV amp), else you will loose the information.
    Ensure to set the front/main speakers to LARGE and Sub to NO when using this kind of connection.

    - You may wish to set the Center speaker to SMALL if it's not very good a re-producing low frequencies; the same applies for the rears.
     
  4. sdl

    sdl
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    I am using the line level inputs on the rear of the sub. I used a Y splitter in order to use both inputs on the sub. I also have the speakers set to small and have the sub channel set to yes. I just found out that the sub cross over frequency on 6200 receivers is set to 100hz. I have no idea what the cross over frequency was on the Technics.

    My center channel speaker is the Paradigm CC-270. I have it set to small along with the other Paradigm front channel speakers.

    I am going to try using the highest frequency point on the sub (I've never tried this because most of the time I was told to turn it to the lowest point).

    Thank you for your responses and advice. I'm going to try everything before thinking about buying another sub.
     
  5. kelvin

    kelvin
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    I'd definitely agree with other recommendations to turn the crossover frequency on the sub up - 50hz IS relatively low. Personally I have my sub set up to reprodouce all sound below around 90hz - I believe the THX recommended level is about 80hz but it's all about personal taste I guess.

    Bear in mind though that even if you turn the crossover right up on the sub, if your amp is set to only send sounds below 100hz to the sub, this is all that will happen. I can set the frequency on my Yamaha to anything up to 160hz but given that I've set the cut off point on my amp to 100hz, anything above 100hz on the sub makes no difference as it's not receiving a signal this high (if that makes sense!). I seem to remember reading somewhere that 100hz is the point where bass frequencies become directional and as a result frequencies of this type shouldn't be played through a syb - might be wrong on that though - can somebody clarify? It might be worth checking also to see if you can alter the crossover at the amp to allow for higher/lower frequencies being played back through the sub??

    Hope this helps - let us know how you go.

    Kelvin :D

    D'oh - edited because after actually reading the whole thread I've realised I've near enough repeated everything Reiner suggested - sorry!!!
     
  6. sdl

    sdl
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    Thanks. I'm going to try turning the sub cross over frequency (behind the sub) up when I get home tonight. I am not sure if I can adjust the cross over frequency on the receiver. Someone please advise how if this is possible. I may also try corner loading the sub. I didn't have to do this before, but it may work now.
     
  7. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    kelvinp

    Even though your amp is set to 100hz and therefore your sub won't receive anything above that figure, from what I've read you should set your sub to max because having two things trying to control the bass even at the same point can have adverse effects on the performance. I don't quite understand why but the people who were disscusing it did seem to.

    So I would suggest leaving the amp only to decide what to send to the sub or if your amp setting for speakers are set to large then set the cross-over on the sub but not both sub and amp at the same time.

    The info was on this forum but I can't remember the thread.
     
  8. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Now that we know you are using a line level connection and the amps x-over is set at 100Hz here is the mistake:
    When the sub is set to 50Hz (as you say it is) you will loose all information between 50 and 100Hz as both settings conflict with each other.
    The "normal" conclusion would be to set the sub to 100Hz, too, but since the x-over cut-off point is hardly a cut (but rather a sloop) you should not set it to exactly the same value but rather a slightly higher one (e.g. 120Hz).

    However my earlier advise still stands and this is the easiest solution: set the sub to the maximum value (e.g. my sub has the max at 150Hz).
    As the AV amp handles the cut-over there is no need to do so again in the sub, hence you can use the max setting.
    If the amp allows changing the x-over frequency you may try this but it depends on make and model, some don't allow changing it, some allow changing it for all channels and some allow changing it for each individual channel. Refer to your amp's manual.

    ... or if your amp setting for speakers are set to large then set the cross-over on the sub but ...

    Not a good advise, this only applies to high-level (speaker-level) connections!

    No matter if the speakers are set to LARGE or SMALL while using line-level, all frequency cut-off is done inside the AV amp and hence is not affected by the subwoofer's x-over (i.e. leave it to max, always).
     
  9. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The 6200 has a fixed sub output and it therefore isn't variable. I agree with all previous comments to set the sub crossover as high as possible and let the bass management in the amp sort it out.
     
  10. kelvin

    kelvin
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    mandlebrot - thanks for the advice :) Will check my settings and adjust them later today. One thing though - the crossover setting on the amp for my sub is under the heading "LFE High Cut" - does this mean that it will only adjust the cut off frequency for the specific LFE channel on 5/6.1 movies?? As a result does this mean that it wouldn't affect music? This is one of the reasons that I've often done the majority of adjustment on the sub. I'm not too certain what exactly it adjusts though so I'd be grateful for some advice :)

    Kelvin.
     
  11. sdl

    sdl
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    Thanks again for all of the advice. I tried turning it up to 100hz last night and it did do better. Now after reading the additional threads today I will definitely turn it up to 150hz when I get home later today.

    Last night I had to do some low volume testing (Wife and Child sleeping). I noticed the sub would suddenly cut off. I figured that the volume might have been to low for it to constantly receive a signal so I turned off the auto on feature and so far that seems to have worked.
     
  12. MattTheCat

    MattTheCat
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    Just a suggestion, might not do much but try putting source direct to on.

    Matt
     
  13. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    MattTheCat.
    If he sets the source direct to ON, then that would usually turn the sub off when listening to music because it would only play to the front main pair i.e. stereo. This is ok if the main speakers are good enough and some people prefer this setting when listening to stereo sources but a lot of people like me have main speakers which just don't go low enough, in this case do not use source direct has you will loose a lot of bass information. Please don't let me put you off from any further postings/suggestions though MattTheCat because I'm no expert myself.

    kelvinp.
    I think it would just stop anything higher than this setting from going to the main speakers hence send all information below this setting to the sub when using all modes except source direct. This is only an educated guess though, so if anyone else can expand on this please do so.
     
  14. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    I have a 5200 and if you have the sub connected at high and low(LFE)level source direct will give you a much more noticeable bass output.Source direct is the only way to listen to this amp IMO,DD and DTS just comes to life.
     
  15. MattTheCat

    MattTheCat
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    No the sub turns on with source direct to on according to my SR6200 manual, source direct makes the sound much 'cleaner' and simply r0x0rs IMO.

    Matt
     
  16. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    Yes it does make the sound cleaner by bypassing the Bass and treble but it also feeds all low frequencies to all speakers due to it switching the speakers to large in SD,you can not change this so if your speakers are small,they will not produce the low frequencies,and all the sub will do if its connected at low level is provide the DD and DTS LFE channel.
     
  17. mandlebrot

    mandlebrot
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    I know the LFE for DD and DTS will still be reproduced but has I understood it if you only have the sub connected at line level which is what we were talking about then the sub would not receive any signal whilst listening to stereo because all amp bass management would be bypassed and speakers would be treated has large.

    Therefore if the amp thinks the speakers are large and bass management is off then all bass signal would go directly to the front left/right speakers and these can't often reproduce the low frequency levels of bass that they are being fed unless they are top class large speakers thst is.

    Please note I'm only talking about when listening to stereo material e.g. CD and I can't personally speak for the SR6200 has I have its younger brother the SR4200 but on my amp source direct sends all signal including bass to the front main pair when listening to stereo material.
     

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