Sub for mix and match speaker set

blofse

Member
So my current setup is:
  • Yamaha a2a
  • monitor audio bronze c150 gen 6 centre speaker
  • monitor audio ams Atmos upfires
  • Kef q200 for front speakers
  • musiccast 50 pair for wireless rears

I'm quite happy with the audio, it's good at both quiet and excellent at loud "film volume", however my friend keeps telling me to get a sub. I feel like I get a reasonable amount of bass as it is, but having never owned a sub before - will it really add that much dynasisum to the audio? If it's worth adding a sub, will £450 cover a decent enough one and what would people recommend?
I also intend on adding a vinyl deck also (perhaps through some sort of phono stage) and I've heard some subs can work with analogue audio. Is this true and of so, can this be part of the recommendation - thank you!
 

password1

Distinguished Member
A sub will make a.huge difference in films. For that budget I would look at the BK platinum sealed or BK Double Gem.

You should use a dedicated stereo amp for better music performance. If your avr doesn't have pre outs then you'd need a switch, something like a Beresford speaker switch. There are plenty of £50-£100 stereo amps that will do a decent job. Look for one with HT bypass ideally.
 

blofse

Member
A sub will make a.huge difference in films. For that budget I would look at the BK platinum sealed or BK Double Gem.

You should use a dedicated stereo amp for better music performance. If your avr doesn't have pre outs then you'd need a switch, something like a Beresford speaker switch. There are plenty of £50-£100 stereo amps that will do a decent job. Look for one with HT bypass ideally.
Thanks for the recommendations. With subs,what are the price bracket ranges I should be expecting for respective quality? For instance, with speakers, you have £500 range for basic - mid range, then over 1k for mid range, 3k upwards starting to get into the upper range. Is this the same for subs? Being the fact it's only delivering the low range, is there a substantial noticeable difference in price ranges? So in other words, is it worth me budgeting say £600 because that will give me an amazing difference?

As for dedicated stereo, ideally I would like to use the front speakers I have, but I can't wire in both at the same time. So is there any solutions for this problem which will enable me to keep my current stereo speakers, be able to switch them depending on the source and not loose any sound quality along the way?
 

password1

Distinguished Member
Upping the budget will get you a bigger sub in the same brand but not necessarily between different brands.

You would be able to specify a different finish, as some brands charge extra for certain finishes.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
So my current setup is:
  • Yamaha a2a
  • monitor audio bronze c150 gen 6 centre speaker
  • monitor audio ams Atmos upfires
  • Kef q200 for front speakers
  • musiccast 50 pair for wireless rears

I'm quite happy with the audio, it's good at both quiet and excellent at loud "film volume", however my friend keeps telling me to get a sub. I feel like I get a reasonable amount of bass as it is, but having never owned a sub before - will it really add that much dynasisum to the audio? If it's worth adding a sub, will £450 cover a decent enough one and what would people recommend?
I also intend on adding a vinyl deck also (perhaps through some sort of phono stage) and I've heard some subs can work with analogue audio. Is this true and of so, can this be part of the recommendation - thank you!

What size room you have with possible openings?

Around that 450-600£ you have few options, first are the UK made BK subs.

P12-PR this is little bit more expensive version from the basic sealed P12 (410£) with passive radiator at bottom giving bit more output below 30hz. BK says this is suited to fill larger rooms and also their 2nd best sub for movie use after Monolith.

Then you have the sealed BK XXLS400 "forum favourite" for nearly 10year time. This has been quite popular choice when one has 50%/50% movie-music use. It has better Peerless driver and beefier amp (400w). You can choose driver orientation FF/DF, different cab dimensions.



For the same money as the P12-PR you can get even greater movie experience with the legendary BK Monolith. This will give you very strong output down/below 20hz with even greater impact. It`s not small, but the difference is made by the large vented cabinet. There is also Monolith Plus model for about 100£ more with different driver and more beefier (500w) amp. This will shook your room already and definitely put a smile on face if you watch lot of action/scifi/horror flicks.



Last but not least you have the new SVS 1000 Pro range from the most known subwoofer manufacturer. Newer technology with class-d amps with DSP and phone app control. Long warranty (5years over BKs 2years) and great support similar to BK. The sealed SB comes in three finishes (gloss costs extra) and the ported PB only in black ash. You can get -10% discount for these (AVF member discount).

 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
@Gasp3621 if someone is comparing the down-firing Monoliths to the SVS range (all cuboid ones being front-firing):

What if the FF subwoofers have to be placed so that they are facing forwards but not towards MLP does that matter?

What if there is a sofa only two feet in front of one of the FF subwoofers?

I.e. the DF Monoliths would not be affected significantly by these things, would these things have a significant affect on the SVS FF?
 

Conrad

Moderator
@Gasp3621 if someone is comparing the down-firing Monoliths to the SVS range (all cuboid ones being front-firing):
Not @Gasp3621 but I'll take a stab.

What if the FF subwoofers have to be placed so that they are facing forwards but not towards MLP does that matter?
Shouldn't matter, bass below about 80Hz is omnidirectional so facing the driver at MLP isn't important, unless that's the orientation that gives the best response in room.

What if there is a sofa only two feet in front of one of the FF subwoofers?
So much, much further away than the floor would be in a DF set-up? Should be fine. If it's the sofa you're sat on though you might get unwanted localisation and TR though. I ran my rears firing direct into my couch and got a great in room response from them. I always life a few inches to "breathe" but anything over 10/20cm should be fine.

I.e. the DF Monoliths would not be affected significantly by these things, would these things have a significant affect on the SVS FF?
Only in as much as the driver is facing a different direction which will affect its relationship with the room which will affect its response at the MLP.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Not @Gasp3621 but I'll take a stab.
Thank you, I didn't mind which incredibly helpful subwoofer guru answered, thanks for helping. :)

I'm doing two things. (1) Being selfish. (2) Hoping that this knowledge helps others.

(2) I think many people will have a tendency to think that if a speaker points in a certain direction (and with SVS the port) then that's where "the sound goes". A confirmation that this is not the case and that an FF will perform just as well as a DF in these scenarios is helpful for everyone.

(1) Sorry to sound like a saddo but having a sub even to watch The Chase on TV (!) is a must for me. So much so that I have spare subwoofers. I've two DF subs that I'm very happy with that have just been serviced. But, eventually, these will either die and/or I'll want to upgrade. I have a slight panic that there won't be a DF anymore that fits in the space envelope (BK Mono too long). I also love SVS customer service and warranty ethic. In my front corners, I could fit two PB1000 Pros instead of my Storms and needed to know if the FF would be an issue.

Thank you again.
 

Conrad

Moderator
You should definitely model it in room sim but for sure, the sub construction doesn't matter, it's the driver placement in room that matters.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
You should definitely model it in room sim but for sure

I'm probably being a total idiot here, there is no choice for FF or DF in REW?
 

Conrad

Moderator
There's not, but I believe that the sim measures from the middle of the driver, so you can set the middle to be in the middle of, and at the same height as the DF driver.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Hang on a cotton-pickin' minute, I'm clearly the slow guy here but Arendal subwoofers have side-facing drivers! If they're in a corner, are they better driver facing the side wall or the other side?

Just interesting. Many people come on here saying they want "more kid friendly" for the subwoofers and I would've thought it being on the side is a bit more protected than the front.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Do we believe these figures from Arendal? This is the 1961 1S, sealed as well:
Can't find figures for the 1961 1V unfortunately.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Wow. Thanks @Gasp3621. It seems that I have found my next upgrade from my two Storms. Perfectly fit in the available spaces. Have their own EQ tweak so that I could use it combination with Audyssey and adjust my ~30Hz peak and ~65Hz null. Not sure if I'd go 1S or 1V. Bit surprised that they win above the PB2000.
Shame no app control though, I can see tweaking them to be a bit of a tedious exercise!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You could try the vented model this time assuming you don´t have very small room. It will be quite a big step up from old sealed Rels and that is exactly what i would want when upgrading gear! Even if you would prefer the Arendal 1V in sealed mode which i doubt, but you would still gain performance due to massive cabinet over 1S. Arendal site has reviews where they tested both and the 1V gives you that earthquake feel, it has strong about still below 20hz. Clearly it sounds very good as per the review result, all those three will no doubt.

Here you can see them better. 1S on top, 1V bottom.

sub1s-1v-jpg.1224067
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Thank you again. Yes, it would be worth sticking it out longer for two 1V.
The recently serviced Storms are old, yes, but they're not sealed:
1628243466907.png

Definitely ported as, before when I used them straight on the carpet, there was a big dust patch under the port :)
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Ok, i got them mixed. But yeah the Arendal is bit more lounge friendlier than SVS. XTZ 1x12 Edge is also quite nice if you like satin black finish, it`s not as massive either.

 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Nice, and thank you, but too wide. The narrowness of the Arendals is perfect.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
@Gasp3621 @Conrad just got a bit excited by accidently discovering a make called Cabasse and they make many different class D powered down-firing (good size and shape too) subwoofers. Have you heard of them?

Anyway, it appears that you can only get them in the UK on the 'bay and they are extortionately priced!
 

Conrad

Moderator
Looks a bit niche and exotic for my tastes.

Their top of the line sub is €8k for a 13" driver and 500w amp. Those specs aren't the be all and end all of course, implementation matters, but there's only so much you can achieve with that equipment.

Looks like they'd leverage their background in instrument making to claim a certain "speed" and "musicality".
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Looks like they'd leverage their background in instrument making to claim a certain "speed" and "musicality".

Yeah, a bit like the REL sell but worse :)
 

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