Sub for Hi-Fi (NoT for movies)

Ian J said:
I'd rather we didn't please as it would be easier all round if we continued to use generally accepted and understood phraseology.

Whether it is scientifically correct or not when someone is referring to a fast or slow subwoofer, everyone understand the meaning.

:smashin:
 
I must admit I enjoyed listening to 'Weighty Attack's' track 'Teardrop' last night with the SVS in loop for the first time ;)
 
eviljohn2 said:
In English, mass and weight are certainly not interchangable! :eek:

I've read plenty of books (even sci-fi) where this seems to be the case....whether it should be the case is another matter :D
 
so we carry on using incorrect terminology rather than educating people here :( That makes sense, not. I thought the forums were about learning for all of us.
 
I'd have to say that we can all use correct terminology in terms of physics etc to the point where most users lose track.

Speed and musicality,for all of their incorrectness are still terms that the vast majority of users understand very well,and do equate to the subjective sound of a piece of equipment.

The debate as to whether or not these are proper scientific terms is surely somewhat unhelpful with respect to the original post.
 
I'm afraid I have a foot in both camps here on the terminology.

Whilst it is not always helpful to be pedantic about things, I can see where Nic is coming from.

It really does annoy me when a dealer / mag etc. says that a piece of hi-fi equipment is 'musical'. I don't know what they mean, and I'm pretty sure they don't either.

Why would anyone buy a loudspeaker whose job will be to reproduce music if it wasn't musical?

That is why, in an ideal world, standard, correct terms are best so as to avoid ambiguity. Otherwise you have to see past the marketing speak via the snake oil to get to the heart of the question. Whilst making a sharp left at pedantic so as not to annoy when the meaning is actually clear.

There. I've disagreed with everyone now. My work here is done.
 
Gary_W said:
Why would anyone buy a loudspeaker whose job will be to reproduce music if it wasn't musical?

A loudspeaker designed specifically to reproduce sub bass notes accurately is comparatively expensive and many people aren't looking for accuracy and precision from their subwoofer as it's primary function will be to add impact to explosions and crashes in film soundtracks.

Most of the budget subwoofers on the market today will keep hundreds of users very happy but would definately not pass muster in a music set up where accuracy is far more important.
 
Gaffer excellent decision, I spotted you earlier on HFWW with a BKE XLS200 in your signature and I was more than impressed.

He says with an old Kef 30B that passes muster most excellently in his music setup.
 
Come on Colin, Get your act together mate ;)
 
CJROSS said:
Gaffer excellent decision, I spotted you earlier on HFWW with a BKE XLS200 in your signature and I was more than impressed.

He says with an old Kef 30B that passes muster most excellently in his music setup.

:D :D :D :D

Can't wait....anyone have any idea about the time till delivery? Hopefully this week sometime.

PS check out the "wobbly arse shaker" thing on the BK site......think of the FUN you could have with that :eek:
 
Gaffer74 said:
Can't wait....anyone have any idea about the time till delivery? Hopefully this week sometime.
I placed an order for an XLS200-DF in Light Oak last Sunday (14th) and it arrived yesterday. I'm very happy with how it sounds. My setup is mostly for music listening and it integrates with my speakers (JBL XTi 20) very nicely, and does a great job "filling out" the sound.

I don't think the cables it comes with are shielded though, I've got a bit of a hum when they're connected. (there's a tiny hum from it being connected to the mains anyway, but it's much louder with these cables)

I need 8m ones anyway to run around the edge of the room, it's just stretched across the floor while I wait, lol. I'm expecting delivery of one ov belkin's "AV" surge protectors today, so I'm going to see if that makes a difference, the site claims it reduces mains noise.

I get the feeling I'll be buying a new power cable for the amp/sub soon though.

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mmmmmmmmmm! :thumbsup:

Try plugging the sub into the same wall outlet as your (power) amp......hum may reduce/disappear entirely.

The BK I ordered is front firing but my existing Jamo Sub for AV use is down firing. I also have shitty laminate floors and am on the 2nd floor of the building.
I added a (very ugly) 1.5-2" thick slab of MDF under the DF Jamo sub (so it sits on a more solid platform, blutacked down), and bass improved MAssively. It's like a while new sub....movies sound miles better.

Oh, and those nice folks at BK e-mailed to say I'd get the sub on Friday.

EDIT:...well, waited today but no sub. Unfortunately BH w/e so won't see it till Tuesday :(
 
Well, DHL had the option of delivering on Sat am but chose not too.
It's now tuesday and their excuse was that they "had lots to deliver and only wanted to deliver important items (mine wasn't in that category)".
Apparently, the subs are not sent via next day delivery, but via "economy up to 5 day delivery (securicor)" instead. He then said that the delivery guys had got back early..."well can't you deliver mine then? you've got time"....reply:No, don't need to, and we've all got back now :mad:
It's currently been waiting at the DHL depot for 4 days waiting for someone to get off their backside and get it to me :mad: .

Will hopefully get something tomorrow.

If you order this sub, I advise you get the parcel number from BK as they won't automatically e-mail this to you, and then you can at least track those buffoons at DHL.
 
Are the classic speed debate, certianly not simple.

What makes a subwoofer sound quick?

Many believe driver mass has absolutly nothing to do with subwoofer speed, some belive inductance playes a much larger factor.

For a good read and to give you brain a good think on the area read....

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/WooferSpeed.pdf

Outside of the driver alone transient response can come into play, listen out for the speed a driver can change from a low to a high frequnecy and back again.

Boomyness will make a subwoofer sound slow.

Higher Q (Qtc's above 0.707) sealed systems (i.e. Qtc mixture of driver Qts and enclosure airspace) can exite peaks just above drivers freeair resonance due to a overdamped situation, lower Qtc's 0.5-0.6 often sound much better in the home due to a smoother responce (and extended frequnecy response.

You can look at group delay which can be a factor in the 33hz and above regions but not much of an issue at 33hz and below as it is much less noticable at this area.

Hence why low tuned vented systems tuned in the 16-25hz can work so well pushing the large group delay neer fb (port resonance) below where it is noticable and by the time you are reaching the more noticable areas the system is acting just like a regular sealed system becuase you are well above the port fb.

A large hump in frequnecy response in the 40hz-60hz region due to room peaks can make bass sound lumpy.

Also good midbass and subwoofer integration will also play a factor.
 
Hi Gaffer74

We send via economy because they are too heavy for the standard delivery on our contract it say's these should only take 2 working days in 95% of the cases they take only 1 working day. Unfortunately, due to the bank holiday today is the second working day.

I do feel though that DHL have been jobsworth on this occassion and have held the parcel for an extra day just because they can.

We have telephoned the depot and put a flea in their ear, they inform us that it is out for delivery today!!. That said they wont know untill 11.00 am ???? so we will monitor the situation all day

EDIT : :clap: DHL have confirmed that it's out for delivery today
Tom
 
Thanx Dan, it finally arrived...(meant to be early morning delivery, ended up being afternoon...they were "too busy" and "at the other end of town" again :) ).

Apart from that, may i congratulate you on a stunning little bit of equipment...amazingly well built (see previous post, dare I say it better build than the REL equivalents I saw in Sevenoaks :D ).


First, spot the sub (this is my normal listening position) :


Here's a better view, giving an idea of the size of the sub...the teeny weeny monster :) :


So far it's great. I'm finding I don't need very high gain levels at all to get massive SPL's. The gain is set at just under 9 o'clock position (just under 2 notches); freq cutoff at about 70Hz (just under 4 notches...any lower and there's a noticeable gap in the frequency between sub and speakers - I've foam-bunged one port on each of the Quad's as they're close to the rear wall and tended to 'boom' a bit); phase is at just over 1 notch (about 20deg-ish).

I found the phase hardest to adjust properly.

Over the next month or so it'll be fine tuning. A frequency sweep shows a relatively clean, flat level from sub -> spkr mid/bass, and I'm slowly getting to the adjustment points where I can't hear the sub as a distinct entity seperate to the main speakers (this mainly involves disciplining myself to keeping the gain Low :D ).

Once again, THANKYOU for making available such a great little sub at such an affordable price....on sound alone it's definitely up there with REL's costing twice the price ... Definitely recommended!

P.S: 1 Question, can I leave the sub on all the time? It seems to be fine, doesn't get very hot and would save me having to keep try to reach behind it whenever I want to listen to something?

PPS: Ok, another one, am I right in believing that my tube amp (connected via I do as high level nuetrik speakon) is not "seeing" the sub as it is a 100000 ohm load...ie it is only supplying info to the sub rather than driving it? (what I'm getting at is will this connection alter the signal to the main speakers in any way?)
 
I'm glad you're pleased - they really are awesome for the money whether you're after a small or large sub. :smashin:

WRT leaving it on all of the time, both of mine are on permanently with no ill effects to anything else. IIRC they idle at about 20W which isn't great compared to some of the more advanced standby modes but not a great deal compared to some plus it's always immediately available. You can always switch off at the wall if it's a problem. :)
 

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