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Sub for Hi-Fi (NoT for movies)

Discussion in 'Subwoofers' started by G a f f e r, Aug 20, 2005.

  1. G a f f e r

    G a f f e r
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    I already have a sub that came with my jamo dvd system and I'm not too fussed about changing this. It also doesn't come with high level inputs for my seperate Hi-Fi system, and I tend to keep av and hi-fi systems seperate anyway.

    So I need a sub that I can connect to my Hi-Fi (existing wilmslow audio one isn't in any way adjustable [fixed xover - more like a pair of large passive cones in a box], so that's going to the attic).
    I need speaker level inputs, so that my poor valve amp is left alone, and it needs to be fast and tuneful and DEEP.....but needs to complement Quad 12L's without swamping them.

    Shortlist:
    REL Stampede £499 - goes down to 16Hz
    MJ Acoustics Ref 150 £550 - goes down to 13Hz

    But then again, I saw this: BK electronics XLS200 only £280 - goes down to 17Hz

    Are the REL's/MJAc's worth the extra £220 or so?
    I notice most of you love this BK sub with movies, but I only want it with music....would it fare as well as the former two? (that extra £220 could come in handy you see).

    PS I intend to set the sub at 50-70Hz, as this is where the Quads start rolling off

    PPS Quads are birdseye maple, I thought light oak would be good match for the sub :D ? (whichever one i get)
     
  2. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I would expect the XLS200 to compare well to the 2 models you mention but comparing low frequency cutoff points really isn't a great way to go about choosing a sub. MJ in particular are renowned for going overboard with their LF points.
     
  3. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    You would probably like the Stampede with music, but I think you would end up
    being disappointed with it's lack of output after a while.

    I tried an MJ ref.200 with music & didn't think it touched the Rel for music, but
    it might have been better on movies, which I didn't try it on.

    Whatever you do make sure you get a thorough demo. Shouldn't be too hard
    to get with 12L's.
     
  4. G a f f e r

    G a f f e r
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    eviljohn2: you're right, but i just wanted a comparison to see how low they'd go. I actually think all the shortlisted would fit the bill re: complementing the Quad's.
    Timbo21: I'll never use this sub with movies. I can audition the REL and MJAc's no problem, but won't be able to with the BK one.

    The attraction of the BK is
    a, compact size
    b, forward rather than Down firing (I live in a second [laminate :( ] floor flat, so downward firing may not be the best solution)
    c, leaves me money to upgrade other things (am also in bad need of a decent Hi-Fi rack as well you see)

    PS what's with the neutrik connector thingy on these models? Can't I just get one from somewhere (where?) and solder my existing sub wire cable (chord company carnival) into it or is that a pain? I'd then have and decent high level wire input
     
  5. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    Lots of forum members love the BK's, whether that's for movies or music or both I don't know?

    I've only tried a few subs, but I think if you are really into your music & have good ears, then it will be quite important to you how the sub tracks the bass
    producing instruments.

    The Quad sub, for instance, I found had too much lower freq. compared to
    higher bass freq. & didn't work well with fast bass drums. With music you really
    don't want lots of uncontrolled 20 & 30 hz wafting around, you want the right
    amount & well controlled.

    I guess eviljohn & others who are very technical with subs can help you on the neutrik issue.
     
  6. Ian J

    Ian J
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    The marketing men willl also tell you that a Morris Minor from the 1950's can do 100mph but will omit to mention that it is down a steep hill with a following wind and unfortunately that is similar to the stats quoted by British sub manufacturers.

    I doubt whether any of the three will give meaningful output under 25Hz but they will all probably provide fast bass suitable for music and would all be suitable for your purposes. I would recommend the BK on the basis that it is available directly from the manufacturer with the difference in price between it and the other two being the dealer's profits
     
  7. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    He he he

    REL Stampede £499 - goes down to 16Hz
    MJ Acoustics Ref 150 £550 - goes down to 13Hz

    He he he, don't believe the hype


    BK seems liked by many, else look at a Velodyne or secondhand market.
     
  8. Timbo21

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    Yes, I've got a Rel Strata, & although it's working well in my 3m X 4m area,
    I really don't think it's getting anywhere below 30hz (haven't used spl meter),
    & if I had had the space I probably would have bought an SVS.
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    sounds about right
     
  10. Ian964

    Ian964
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    I've just ordered a forward firing BK XLS200, primarily for music. I've got 2 setups to try it with - if it works in both I'll probably order another.

    First is with a Teac VRL-600 and Gallo Nucleus Micros in the kitchen. The Micros only go down to about 90Hz, and start rolling off somewhat higher than this, so should be an interesting test.

    Second is on my main hi-fi. Currently have a pair of AE Evo 3s, which I don't particulary like, driven by Audiolab 8000A/8000P amps. They replaced a pair of Rega Kytes which are great little speakers - fast and rhythmic but bass light. I'll try the sub with the Kytes - if it works well here the Evos will be up for sale.

    For music I think speed is important in a sub - the BK is supposed to be fast, with minimal overhang.

    Sub is being shipped on Monday, so I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  11. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    speed, what is that? The speed of sound from any sub will be the same under similar condtions. Do you mean lack of distortion?
     
  12. G a f f e r

    G a f f e r
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    Than for the info guys.

    Placed an order for a light oak one today.

    Also went into Sevenoaks S&V and popped a look the REL stadium (very poor finish on the model..clear gap between the siver fascia and wood surround with bits of mdf visible...not impressed) but good sound.

    Also saw an REL Q150....?similar size to the BK? it's tiny (under 1/2 the size of my existing wilmslow audio sub which is now in my attic)

    Can't wait to recieve the BK :thumbsup:

    (PS Nic, I bame you and CJ for this upgrade.....if it all goes wrong I'll send the sub-police around to sort u out :D )
     
  13. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Everyone else blames me for most things, so I can live with one more ;) I think you might have made a good call.
     
  14. Ian964

    Ian964
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    A 'fast' loudspeaker is one that responds quickly to changes in input signal, and equally importantly stops (i.e. the cone doesn't continue vibrating after the signal stops, hence causing 'overhang'). It tends to sound more dynamic, and from a sub something like a bass drum 'slam' sounds crisp.
     
  15. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    If there is 'overhang' as you call it, it is one of the forms of distortions that subs are liable to. It is not reponding on the output to the input. This is why many of us use servo subwoofers. In order to respond 'quickly' it needs acceleration not speed. The speed of sound is a constant under similar conditions whether it is at 2KHz 20 Hz. There is NO such thing as the 'speed' of a sub.
     
  16. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    I always thought that the speed of a sub was related to how hard you were throwing it. :clown:
     
  17. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Lol
     
  18. Ian J

    Ian J
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    "Speed" is a descriptive word that is frequently used when describing the performance of a sub and it is generally accepted to be short for "speed of reaction" and a "fast" sub is one that reacts quickly.
     
  19. Ian964

    Ian964
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    From BK's own description of the XLS200 - "...it also had to be fast and musical..."
     
  20. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    But is inaccurate and wrong.
     
  21. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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    If we're going into nomenclature I agree with Nic that the idea of a fast subwoofer only makes sense if the whole device is travelling somewhere. I can understand the characteristic and sound that is being described though.

    On the other hand, the concept of a "musical" sub has always perplexed me. Movies have lots of music in. :confused:
     
  22. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    I can also understand what Ian is saying, but he has just treated himself to a lovely new toy, he will get far more out of this by understanding how these things work.

    Re Musical sub, always made me laugh...:( I am for education on how to get the best out of what you have :)
     
  23. G a f f e r

    G a f f e r
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    The sub in my car is VERY fast (esp. on the m'way).

    But seriously, I always took "speed" of sub to be a descriptive english term rather than an accurate physical one...in which case it colloquially means "speed of response" as Ian says...and also a fast sub would have a lack of lag and lack of overhang.

    (similarly in English, mass and weight are interchangeable, but we know that scientifically weight = mass x accel.)

    No e-mail confirm from bkelec yet, so not sure when it'll arrive

    Signature changed in anticipation :)
     
  24. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
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  25. Ian J

    Ian J
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    I'd rather we didn't please as it would be easier all round if we continued to use generally accepted and understood phraseology.

    Whether it is scientifically correct or not when someone is referring to a fast or slow subwoofer, everyone understand the meaning.
     
  26. Timbo21

    Timbo21
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    :smashin:
     
  27. Gary_W

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    I must admit I enjoyed listening to 'Weighty Attack's' track 'Teardrop' last night with the SVS in loop for the first time ;)
     
  28. G a f f e r

    G a f f e r
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    I've read plenty of books (even sci-fi) where this seems to be the case....whether it should be the case is another matter :D
     
  29. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    so we carry on using incorrect terminology rather than educating people here :( That makes sense, not. I thought the forums were about learning for all of us.
     
  30. eviljohn2

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    I won't be when I know better.
     

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