Question Sub for around 500€

roli

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Hi there!
A few days ago a friend lent me an SVS-SB1000 to test with my system. And that has now ignited my "need" to upgrade my sound system again.

My current system is this:
- Magnat Monitor Supreme Sub 302A
- Mission LX-2 fronts
- Mission LX-C center
- Mission LX-1 back
- Denon AVRX-1300W receiver

My room dimensions are 5.3x4.0x2.3m (about 17m2). Though there is a large hole in the ceiling (about 1/5 of the room) where the stairs to the upper floor go - if that makes any difference.

I bought my current sub back in 2017 for about 200€ (I bought it with a slight dent in one of the corner so it was a bit cheaper). It's a back ported design with a 12" driver and a power rating of 100W RMS. I pretty much use it for TV shows and movies (and maybe a little bit of music here and there) exclusively.

When I brought home my friends SVS-SB1000 I noticed that the subs were pretty similar in louder scenes with lots of rumbling (I was testing it with Dunkirk Blu-ray). There really wasn't much noticeable difference. That surprised my slightly because everyone was telling my that my sub wasn't all that good back when I first wanted to buy it. But one place where I actually really noticed the difference was in the more quiet scenes. Scenes where my sub didn't really do much, but the SVS did actually produce a bit of a punch - a netflix show where somebody was punching a punching bag. And that is something that I am missing with the current sub. Especially since I watch quite a bit of content with similar sound. But overall the 400€ price difference between the SVS and my sub is too great for the demoed result. So I am looking for something better.

My friend that has loaned me the SVS suggested that I go for something like SVS-PB2000. Which seems like a solid choice, but the price is just too steep for my budget.

So I was looking at something like the BK P12-300SB-DF or BK Monolith-DF. The Monolith being more expensive and slightly out of my budget, but still acceptable. And my friend suggested a ported design for my use case. Another option is XTZ 10.17 (or even XTZ 12.17, but that is really stretching the budget).

So, what would you suggest? Should I wait a year and then spend more to get a bigger bang instead? Though I am not sure that I will ever be willing to spend 1000€ for a sub.
 
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If the Monolith is out of budget, check the BK P12-300SB-PR

According to BK, it's supposed to have a performance "almost" similar to the Monolith, but at a smaller size and slightly cheaper

EDIT: You can also try to find a SVS PB12-NSD in discount, since they have been discontinued... I was able to buy the SB12-NSD at a fraction of it's price last month - in terms of performance, they are in between the SB/PB1000s and the SB/PB2000s
 
I mean the monolith is not out of budget, but it is at the edge of it. The BK P12-300SB-PR is only about 20£ cheaper than the Monolith. That kind of a difference really doesn't matter. What about the XTZs? If not anything else they at least seem to be sold by a company with a website that looks like it was made in the last decade.

How does the Monolith compare to the SVS-SB1000 or PB1000 though?
 
Hi there!
A few days ago a friend lent me an SVS-SB1000 to test with my system. And that has now ignited my "need" to upgrade my sound system again.

My current system is this:
- Magnat Monitor Supreme Sub 302A
- Mission LX-2 fronts
- Mission LX-C center
- Mission LX-1 back
- Denon AVRX-1300W receiver

My room dimensions are 5.3x4.0x2.3m (about 17m2). Though there is a large hole in the ceiling (about 1/5 of the room) where the stairs to the upper floor go - if that makes any difference.

I bought my current sub back in 2017 for about 200€ (I bought it with a slight dent in one of the corner so it was a bit cheaper). It's a back ported design with a 12" driver and a power rating of 100W RMS. I pretty much use it for TV shows and movies (and maybe a little bit of music here and there) exclusively.

When I brought home my friends SVS-SB1000 I noticed that the subs were pretty similar in louder scenes with lots of rumbling (I was testing it with Dunkirk Blu-ray). There really wasn't much noticeable difference. That surprised my slightly because everyone was telling my that my sub wasn't all that good back when I first wanted to buy it. But one place where I actually really noticed the difference was in the more quiet scenes. Scenes where my sub didn't really do much, but the SVS did actually produce a bit of a punch - a netflix show where somebody was punching a punching bag. And that is something that I am missing with the current sub. Especially since I watch quite a bit of content with similar sound. But overall the 400€ price difference between the SVS and my sub is too great for the demoed result. So I am looking for something better.

My friend that has loaned me the SVS suggested that I go for something like SVS-PB2000. Which seems like a solid choice, but the price is just too steep for my budget.

So I was looking at something like the BK P12-300SB-DF or BK Monolith-DF. The Monolith being more expensive and slightly out of my budget, but still acceptable. And my friend suggested a ported design for my use case. Another option is XTZ 10.17 (or even XTZ 12.17, but that is really stretching the budget).

So, what would you suggest? Should I wait a year and then spend more to get a bigger bang instead? Though I am not sure that I will ever be willing to spend 1000€ for a sub.
Have you considered the pb 1000. Will have more impact the the sb 1000. I own a pb 2000 and an sb 2000 both are solid choices if you have the funds
 
Well my experience with the SB1000 has left me wanting more. I know that the PB1000 should have a better impact, but I am not sure if I am willing to take that chance. From what I've read the SVS subs don't seem to be the best bang per buck. The PB/SB2000 is way out of the budget.
 
How does the Monolith compare to the SVS-SB1000 or PB1000 though?

Monolith is very similar to PB1000 if we look measured performance! Here we can see what large multimillion dollar company can do at best. Smaller cabinet, smaller driver and newer tech for similar price - matching performance. Quite impressive! If only it would look as good as it performs/sounds. Monolith has been very popular around 10years, PB1000 is likely one of the most sold 500$ HT sub all over world. Both are great products clearly!

SB1000 should sound much better than your sub, so there is things you didn´t do correct (setup/placement). But also SB1000 isn´t likely best choice for medium size room if movie use mostly, so you are right to look something better!

You mentioned € prices couple times, that means there is high chance you could get Miguels recommended models SVS PB12-NSD and SB12-NSD! Much better bang for buck vs. PB/SB1000! These two models are available in many EU countries, so google up!! SB12-NSD should have 40% more output than SB1000 (for same or lower price!).

Some people in US forums have reported the sealed one sounds more punchier (SB2000) than ported one (PB1000), but sealed misses the extra rumble effect & output at low frequencies then which is important factor for many action/scifi movie lovers (room dependant)! Local SVS dealer should allow one to compare couple models if in stock.

XTZ 12.17 Edge is great option as you can tune the sub your liking, either to emphasize the mid or upper bass or the low stuff via port tuning/eq setting. If you buy XTZ, pick the Edge model so you can be sure of reliability. If you were to keep product long time it would be wise to buy the best you can afford as you never know if moving out or just wanting that extra grunt. At this point it´s only little bit more, but if you get buyers remorse it will cost you lot more to swap the sub to larger one!

Please read this link from the part Movies/TV forward so you understand the differences between PB1000 and SB1000 when really pushed;
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html
 
Well I tried everything to find SVS PB-12 NSD and I just can't do it. One store in Germany sells it for 699€, but the delivery to my country would cost me another 100€. At 800€ that is just no-go.

The XTZ 12.17 EDGE is again out of my price range. Non-edge model is stretching it quite a bit, but the edge is just too expensive.

As for the fact that SB1000 should outperform mine... maybe. Maybe I am just bad at noticing the differences. But for the price difference it really didn't do much for me. I didn't have it for too long so I didn't have time to really properly play with it. Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that I normally listen to things at quite a low volume.

Well I am adding the PB1000 into consideration now. But then the XTZ 10.17 looks better if we are honest (I mean visually). And they seem similar on paper.
 
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SVS PB12 NSD Here you have it for 599€ ( I bought my SB12-NSD in this store, but during the Back Friday it got even cheaper! Contact them, and ask if they can lower the price a bit more)
 
Awesome. That looks like a decent price. And only 35€ shipping from what I can tell. That is pretty much what I would need to pay for a PB1000. I noticed that they have the SB12-NSD for 479€. But I am willing to pay the extra for the ported option if it really is that much better.

So final call... is the SVS-PB12 NSD the best option for 599€? My favourite still seems to be the XTZ 10.17 - mostly because it's available in white and it would match my speakers better and it's sold by the manufacturer directly on a website with a language that I understand.
 
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So after looking over at my options I have now narrowed it down to three options:
- SVS PB12 NSD for 634€ delivered
- XTZ 10.17 for 570€ delivered
- BK P12-300SB-PR for 557€ delivered

In terms of looks: BK > XTZ > SVS. But I do like that the SVS is... well... large. And it is the best on paper. After thinking it over... I just can't financially justify getting something like XTZ 12.17.
Why is this so hard?
 
@roli

The normal 10.17/12.17 amp has given grey hairs to owners, shipped with dead amps. One member is having some odd problem atm with setting up on XTZ thread after he got new 500w amp. The Edge model has higher quality amp which has 5year warranty, the normal 500w version 2years. If you want XTZ, save up then for 12.17 Edge. You get the extra performance at 20-30hz plus better reliability. One should always buy the best he can afford or save little extra to get one, no buyers remorse later and could be longer time without need to upgrade. You can always turn down the larger sub, but you can`t get more from smaller sub.

BK P12-PR has 50L cabinet with passive radiator (not powered) vs. 95L cabinet with large port moving air (Monolith). For nearly same price. Do i have to say more? :) Marketing talks are always nice, but one is ported and almost double the size. PR is great option if really size restricted which you don´t seem to be.

For the price PB12-NSD looks like winner if you can place it optimally in your room (couple places to try / subwoofer crawl)! From what i gathered at 20hz you would need three (3) SB12-NSD to match the PB12-NSD output. Beast! Going higher up the gap get`s smaller and SB12-NSD should have plenty of punch with mid-bass, but won`t be as physical experience as PB i could imagine. Also the ported model has better extension down to 19hz and likely useable output still at 16hz. Brent Butterworth compared PB12 to he`s reference HSU 15" model and was suprised how close it could get;

The PB12-NSD is a true reference-grade sub at a super-affordable price, delivering flat response and high output all the way down to 20 Hz.
When I cranked the system, the PB12-NSD responded with serious shaking of my listening chair and various unsecured objects in my listening room.

Action movies like the bass-intensive Blu-ray Disc of Thor showed that the PB12-NSD could deliver all the bass I wanted and even more. I never pushed it past its limits, even when I played the system at pretty stupid-loud volumes (loud enough to hear clearly out on the street in front of my house even with the front door closed), and it never failed to give me the quantity and quality of bass I wanted. I never heard a trace of distortion or port noise.

SVS claims on its site that the frequency response measurement of this sub is “ruler flat,” and they’re pretty much right. I can’t recall seeing a sub with flatter response than this...

Review: SVS PB12-NSD Subwoofer Page 2
 
Thank you guys so much for the help. I have now ordered the SVS PB12 NSD. Hopefully I made the right decision. Will post the results when I get it.

Well I just received an email that they can't ship the PB12 to my country. So the search apparently continues. I have a sneaking suspicion that the same will be for Monolith since BK doesn't list my country on their order page. But I will ask.

If not I am back to considering the PB1000 or ... something... Maybe the XTZ and I'll gamble a bit.
 
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Thank you guys so much for the help. I have now ordered the SVS PB12 NSD. Hopefully I made the right decision. Will post the results when I get it.

Well I just received an email that they can't ship the PB12 to my country. So the search apparently continues. I have a sneaking suspicion that the same will be for Monolith since BK doesn't list my country on their order page. But I will ask.

If not I am back to considering the PB1000 or ... something... Maybe the XTZ and I'll gamble a bit.

Ahh shame! Can´t understand the DE pricing, they should be cheaper usually not more expensive. 599€ should be price for PB12-NSD at every EU country! Well "gamble" with the 12.17 (500w) model then if Monolith Plus won`t work! 645€ + shipping isn´t bad! White colour is in stock at EU site. Which country you live at?
 
Well I sent an email to BK to see if they can ship the Mono (the standard model not plus). We will see the response.

Well 12.17 is maybe an option. Though it is a fairly expensive one. And seeing people saying that there isn't much difference between it and 10.17 (especially for smaller rooms) makes me want to go for the cheaper option.

I am from Slovenia. Which automatically means that we have very little choice of local dealers. :(
 
Well I sent an email to BK to see if they can ship the Mono (the standard model not plus). We will see the response.

Well 12.17 is maybe an option. Though it is a fairly expensive one. And seeing people saying that there isn't much difference between it and 10.17 (especially for smaller rooms) makes me want to go for the cheaper option.

I am from Slovenia. Which automatically means that we have very little choice of local dealers. :(

Well you do have PB1000 for 599€ at local store. Could you possibly listen it first? 10.17 could be fine yes, but you would need to compare 12.17 with PB1000 and Monolith. Those are about same level performance wise. 100€ saving at this point, well up to you but you might regret it later. The 12.17 is still quite compact sized. 685€ shipped to Slovenia.
SVS SVS PB-1000 Black Ash
 
That is not a local store. Just a regional distributer in a neighboring country.

Well I got a reply from BK. The shipping for monolith would cost me £85. Which would bring it to £550. So pretty much the same as PB1000 (I found uk store that would ship it to me for £550 as well). I’ve also seen some people comparing PB12 NSB with the Mono on some forums and liking the Mono better. So right now I am leaning towards the Mono.
 
I would contact them via their "grade B" channel on ebay, and ask if they have any Monolith in stock, and if they can list it there: colosussxb | eBay

This channel appears to be a way to sell stock products at a discount price - although they say “Grade B might have a small mark which will not spoil the look of the cabinet”, I'm yet to see anyone who has bought a sub throught this channel that says that it had any mark or defect.

You will end up saving a bit from the regular price, and shipping is also cheaper (Slovenia is listed)
 
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^You might even get the Mono Plus through that channel as the price is normally around 494£, so about 580£ shipped if same rates. For a regular 300w Mono it was about 400£. Prices for basic colours.
 
Well I sent them a question and I'll see how it goes.

Meanwhile my friend pointed me to an official Italian SVS site that has the PB1000 available for 550€ (and around 40€ shipping to my country).
 
Well I sent them a question and I'll see how it goes.

Meanwhile my friend pointed me to an official Italian SVS site that has the PB1000 available for 550€ (and around 40€ shipping to my country).

They don`t list PB-12NSD either. :( 599€ + shipping should be the price. There got to be some site which ships it for low price cause it`s much better deal than PB1000. Remember PB2000 costs normally 1000€ and this model is quite close to it. Let`s see what the BK guys at Colosussxb say.

"That is not a local store. Just a regional distributer in a neighboring country. "

What about if you contact them and ask about PB12-NSD?
 
I doubt that they have it since it's not listed. Maybe I am just too late and all the old stock is pretty much gone?

I am praying for a good deal with the Monolith really. I'll pull the trigger if they offer me a bit of a discount.
 
Well I didn't receive any response from that ebay account so after two days I just gave up and ordered a Monolith via BK directly. Now I have to wait for up to 14 days for it to be shipped. We will see how it sounds when it turns up. At least it's going to look like an upgrade :D.
 
Well I didn't receive any response from that ebay account so after two days I just gave up and ordered a Monolith via BK directly. Now I have to wait for up to 14 days for it to be shipped. We will see how it sounds when it turns up. At least it's going to look like an upgrade :D.

How much it costs total cause they have just added Mono Plus for 494£ + 55£ shipping to Slovenia!! Monolith Plus -DF Subwoofer in Black 5060403220721 | eBay

If the normal Mono is same price with shipping then cancel your order and take this Plus model instead!
 
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Oh dear. Yeah, I paid 549£ for my order. But they are selling a DF model and after doing some measurements earlier this week I figured out that I can't fit a DF model where I want it. So I had to go with the FF model.

I'll be keeping my order and just don't care anymore.
Is there actually much difference between the Plus and the normal models? If I understand correctly the main difference is in the amp that they are using. Something that would be useful if I wanted to go loud - which I don't really.
 
Oh dear. Yeah, I paid 549£ for my order. But they are selling a DF model and after doing some measurements earlier this week I figured out that I can't fit a DF model where I want it. So I had to go with the FF model.

I'll be keeping my order and just don't care anymore.
Is there actually much difference between the Plus and the normal models? If I understand correctly the main difference is in the amp that they are using. Something that would be useful if I wanted to go loud - which I don't really.
I believe it’s a different amp and driver on the plus model I was thinking about getting the plus but I’m just going to order the normal one
 

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