Sub Advice.. REL Q200 or B&W ASW650/675? other suggestions very welcome!

[~Kev H~]

I'm looking to get a subwoofer which will significantly extend the lower frequencies from a pair of B&W 604's (S3), they are powered by one of the new NAD C372 amplifiers.

I've been mainly looking at the REL Q200 vs the ASW650 but unfortunately am yet to hear either, although my local B&W shop assures me they will have an ASW650 soon.

I have kind of discounted the ASW675 because of the way the amplifier is set up, from the specification it suggests that the amp is designed to deal with short sharp peaks of power and as I listen to a lot of different types of music I'm concerned that the onboard amp would be extremely unsuited to anything like drum & bass where there is a prolonged deep bass note.. is this a correct assumption do you think ???

It would be great to hear from anyone that has heard either of them in action, and even better if someone has been able to compare them. I listen 95% to music so need something musical.

Or if anyone has any other suggestions for a sub in this price range which i should include on the short-list... ????

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Stellavision]

I have the ASW675 and can say it is a very good sub. As a film enthusiast it gives me sperb LFE effects, and as a professional musician I can also appreciate how well this compact powerful sub handles any music I throw at it. Although, it isn't the most gut wrenching sub you can buy I think you would struggle to find anything of it's compact size to rival it.
Having said that, I have'nt heard the Rel Q200, so I don't know exactly how it fairs up against the competition. I do know that the Rel Q ranges have a reputation here on AV forums for being over rated and over priced.
Her is a couple of reviews that may be of interest to you.

Rel Q200E Review

B&W ASW-675 Review

If you do get chance to audition the B&W side by side I would be interested in hearing your thoughts.

 

[MuFu]

Originally posted by ~Kev H~
I'm looking to get a subwoofer which will significantly extend the lower frequencies from a pair of B&W 604's (S3), they are powered by one of the new NAD C372 amplifiers.

Nice.

Having said that, if you want to "significantly extend the lower frequencies" of a pair of 604s you're probably going to want to consider a few larger subs (s/h Servo-15 or CHT-15 maybe?).

I have kind of discounted the ASW675 because of the way the amplifier is set up, from the specification it suggests that the amp is designed to deal with short sharp peaks of power and as I listen to a lot of different types of music I'm concerned that the onboard amp would be extremely unsuited to anything like drum & bass where there is a prolonged deep bass note.. is this a correct assumption do you think ???

I don't believe so. Which part of the specification made you draw that conclusion in particular? I would have thought that, if anything, the ASW675 looks far more suitable for drum & bass on paper due to its more powerful amplifier. The extra dynamic headroom comes into play a lot when reproducing a highly percussive low end.

IMHO the ASW675 is a better sub than the Q200E in every way. Lower, louder, cleaner, better looking etc. You probably need to check out at the Velodyne SPL(II) series if you want to significantly improve on the B&W while keeping the same, compact size.

MuFu.

 

[FoxyMulder]

I have RELQ201E its the same as the RELQ200 and trust me that review is false and has been bought and paid for, Bass is tight and clean to 30hz and might extend to 25hz but trust me anything lower and this sub starts to make overblown distorted noises, can't see how they reviewed it with an album which produces bass clean to 15hz cos this sub cannot do it, its ok but for the money there is better out there, it certainly struggles to play the DTS version of The Haunting in fact it can't play it at decent high level volumes but can handle most films very well, ur hear the bass though NOT feel it.

 

[thackl]

I have a ASW650 and use it in conjuction with its predecessor the ASW1000. Together they can easily handle anything you throw at them in terms of volume, speed and depth.

Cheers
Tom

 

[Ian J]

Originally posted by FoxyMulder
it certainly struggles to play the DTS version of The Haunting in fact it can't play it at decent high level volumes but can handle most films very well,

Most cheaper and smaller subwoofers will struggle with The Haunting at higher levels but Kev did say that his requirements were for 95% music anyway so this shouldn't be a problem.

 

[~Kev H~]

Thanks for all your comments !! I've never used a forum before but they sure work well !!

Barrie - Thanks for the links, I've read all the reviews I could find on the Q200 but hadnt actually read that review of the ASW675, and it certainly got a good review there!, With its -6dB @ 17Hz and having exactly the same visual appearance as my 604's I'd be quite happy to part with the money if I knew for sure it wouldnt run out of juice on long deep notes. I'll ask the B&W shop to pick up a ASW675 aswell, Sounds like its definately worth a listen. Also, could I ask which other subs you had listened to before purchasing your ASW675, just out of curiosity

Mufu - thanks for those suggestions as I hadnt considered anything of that size previously. They are all a bit more than I'm looking to pay (and probably need more room than I can find in this roughly 10ft by 16ft room!) but the Servo 15 definately looks worthy of some research. The reason I'm concerned about the amplifier of the ASW675 is that it is rated as drawing a mere 75Watts from the mains electricity, there is a page on the B&W site which explains that it can produce its 500W output by basically having a high capacity power supply (otherwise you'd clearly be breaking the conservation of energy law! ) and I'm just worried about exactly how much capacity a power supply can have and what could happen to the sound output if these capacitors ever ran out of juice during one particular note.

FoxyMulder - can I just confirm that you are actually refering to your Q201 when you mention these "overblown distorted noises"?? There have been so many consumer reviews I have read of the Q200/201 that make it out to be one of the best subs available at that price range.

Also, slightly off topic but it relates to the ASW675, Can anyone explain to me what the differences are in the classes of amplification eg Class D , Class A/B ??

Thanks again

Kev

 

[Ian J]

Originally posted by ~Kev H~
The reason I'm concerned about the amplifier of the ASW675 is that it is rated as drawing a mere 75Watts from the mains electricity, there is a page on the B&W site which explains that it can produce its 500W output by basically having a high capacity power supply (otherwise you'd clearly be breaking the conservation of energy law! ) and I'm just worried about exactly how much capacity a power supply can have and what could happen to the sound output if these capacitors ever ran out of juice during one particular note.

Don't get too hung up on paper specifications as real world performance is often very different. Most subs nowadays have been developed thanks to the success of this type of speaker in the AV market. Most music doesn't have the same bass depth and power as some films do and subwoofers like the B&W are engineered to cope with very deep and loud explosions in Hollywood Blockbusters so it shouldn't have any trouble coping with music, even that dreadful stuff that you like

 

[Stellavision]

Originally posted by ~Kev H~
Also, could I ask which other subs you had listened to before purchasing your ASW675, just out of curiosity

Kev

My first sub was a Mission 7AS. I then replaced it with the newer M70AS but didn't keep it for very long. The SVS subwoofer hype began on the forum so I purchased an SVS 25-31 PCi from the US.
This was a fantastic sub but we could never really get used to the cylindrical dusbin type thing in our lounge, so I then looked in to what I could replace it with. After reading a few reviews and a few helpful comments on the forum I decided to purchase the B&W ASW675. I purchased it blind from Sevenoaks in Southampton, which is'nt an ideal way to buy, but I purchased it on the strength of what I had heard about it, but told the shop I would be taking it back if I didn't get on with it. It's still here.
Being a new member you may not have come across SVS before. Have a look at www.svsubwoofers.com
Just another option for you to consider, but I'm pretty sure the B&W will give you exactly what you want, it will match your other B&W speakers and you won't have to import it.

 

[~Kev H~]

I fear I may be getting drawn into a "bigger is better" mindset but how crazy an idea do you think a SVS 16-46 PC+ would be?

With the weakness of the US Dollar at the moment (around $1.88 to the british pound) it strikes me that I could well afford one of these behemoths delivered to my door for the same kind of price I'm looking to pay for the B&W or REL offerings!

The 16-46PC+ is "tuned" to 16Hz which can be lowered to 12Hz and the onboard amplifier is rated at 525Watts (Nothing to worry about there then)

I have looked through customer reviews of it and they are all very positive but they all seem to be from the HT point of view.

Barry - the 25-31PCi you had, was it as good with music as they clearly are with home theatre? I had originally been convinced that a sealed unit was the way forward, however the frequency response graphs for the SVS speakers are all impressively flat and I'm thinking maybe I should not discount ported enclosure designs.

Why are these decisions always so hard and time consuming!?!?

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Regards
Kev

 

[~Kev H~]

Infact if anyone has heard any of the SVS subwoofers in action then please let me know your thoughts, It would be nice to build up an overall "feel" of the opinions held for these speakers. I should think getting an audition of one of these would be nigh-on impossible. ??

Kev

 

[Ian J]

I estimate that there are now over 20 forum members with SVS subs including myself.

You are going from one extreme to the other by looking at compact subs and the big Towers of Power. If you are saying that your usage would be 90% music I think that the big beastie is overkill although it isn't much more expensive than the smaller models.

I have the 20-39 PC Plus and find that it is excellent with music which is a tribute to a well designed subwoofer. The B&W ASW675 may be an excellent little sub but it isn't in the same league as an SVS at the same price as compromises have had to be made to keep it small.

The difference is not just in depth and power but in audible distortion which is absent in an SVS even driven to reference levels but will be apparent in lesser subs.

 

[Ian J]

This is what Forum member Liam McCauley thought when he first heard my SVS

Originally posted by lmccauley
Thanks to Phil for his kind hospitality tonight, and giving me permission to post my thoughts on his Velodyne CHT15, compared to Ian's SVS 20-39 PC-Plus.

For a bit of background information, I have a REL Q100E sub and have heard a Storm III at both Phil and Ian's. I then heard Phil's Velo CHT15 a few months ago, which was a noticeable improvement over the Storm. Last week I heard Ian's SVS, and it was a huge improvement over his Storm. I don't like to be hasty in my judgements, so I wanted to hear Phil's CHT15 again - which I did tonight.

Well, if Phil hadn't already decided to sell his CHT15 and buy a SVS, then I would have faced a great dilemma in how be honest, but polite. I would probably have spent most of my time on preamble and commented on how good the picture from his projector was. Oh, and isn't the weather hot...

As it is, I can say that it is good value for the £450 he has sold it for in the classifieds. I can also categorically say that the SVS is a better performer in all sonic areas.

The first track we played was the Foo Fighters. On my Q100E I can't hear the deepest bass-drum. On the CHT15 I can hear the beat with a slightly mushy sound (by which I mean that it rises and decays quite slowly). On the SVS, every beat was well defined and solid. The SVS sounded the closest to a live rock concert I've yet heard.

Moulin Rouge - We played the first musical number, and I remember sitting through it with a grin on my face with the SVS. Somehow it just didn't grab me on the CHT15. We also played the start of chapter 29, IIRC, which has a thunderstorm. Again, the CHT15 made a good fist of it, but sounded a little boomy. The SVS, on the other hand grabbed hold of you, shook you in a controlled, precise manner, and let go of you again. I apologise if my analogies don't get my meaning across - it's something I think you have to experience to appreciate fully.

Toy Story - opening scene (surprise, surprise!). Same story, really. Matrix helicoptor crash. Basically the more I heard, the more it reinforced my initial thoughts. The SVS reminded me of an M&K satelite speaker (like an S85) - very dynamic and neutral. Each note was well defined, in a way that was lacking with the CHT. Distortion and boom did not seem to be present with the SVS, whereas I can easily hear it in my poor Q100 when driven hard. The CHT surprised me by also exhibiting some boom.

How would I rate these subs? Well, I think the Q100 was good for the £300 I paid for it. I also think the CHT15 is good for the £450 it went for. The SVS 20-39 is a bargain at £750.

Another way to look at it, for the videophiles. The Q100 is like a Cine7 CRT - very impressive for a first projector. The CHT15 is like a decent 8" projector fed by a competent scaler. The SVS is the Sony 9" projector displaying Hi-def 1080i Japan demo tape at Gordon's.

Cheers,
Liam

 

[~Kev H~]

Yes it must seem like I have gone from one extreme to the other!

When I said that I may not be able to find room for something like a Servo15, that was in terms of floorspace. Luckily I have my own way with what goes into this room and so even though the SVS 16-46 is a "Tower of Power" finding room for something with only a 16 inch diameter footprint would be no problem at all (even if it does stand nearly 4 feet tall! )

Sounds like I might be making progress, I think one of these in the corner would look superb and I always like to write off my"overkill" purchases as merely being Over-Engineered

I have never purchased anything from overseas, When you purchased yours did you just pay them in sterling? or can you get banks to send dollars?

Cheers - Kev

 

[Stellavision]

Kev,
with music the SVS did'nt blend with my mains as well as the B&W. Having said that, some of that problem may have come from the size and shape of the SVS made it more difficult to position. The only place I could put the cylinder was on a side wall and I often found the direction of the bass too easy to pinpoint. Because of the compact size of the B&W I am able to position it next to my LHS floorstander which I find gives the best integration with maximum bass response as well.

 

[Ian J]

Originally posted by ~Kev H~
I have never purchased anything from overseas, When you purchased yours did you just pay them in sterling? or can you get banks to send dollars?

The cost of the sub and shipping is paid initially by credit card in dollars which your credit card company will convert into sterling to debit to your account.

Delivery is made to your door by Bax Global who will present you with an invoice in Sterling to cover the import duty and Vat which can be paid by cheque.

Last year I paid exactly £600 to SVS for my 20-39 PC Plus including shipping to my door plus £140 to Bax Global to cover the duties and taxes. I believe that the whole thing now costs £90 less, due to the weakness of the dollar.