Sub £1000 CD player: Cyrus CD8 .. ??

Discussion in 'Hi-Fi Stereo Systems & Separates' started by Shaka, Sep 2, 2004.

  1. Shaka

    Shaka
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    Evening folks,

    What are your views on a good sub £1000 CD player? I'm looking to purchase a new CD player and am very interested in the Cyrus CD8 (or the newer CD8vs). Does anybody have any views on this model?
    I'm looking to upgrade my current system to get a noticeable performance increase in all areas. A few weeks ago I bought a REL Q150e sub and the AVR300 which replaced my Alpha 8 integrated and DSP-E800 processor. This gave me a significant increase in surround but no noticeable improvement in stereo.
    A dealer suggested CD player should be the next logical upgrade to get the stereo performance I desire.
    He setup the Roksan Kandy CD/amp and Naim CD5i & 5i amp for me to audition. As I was favouring standmounters as my next set of speakers, he used ProAc Tablette Reference 8. Unfortunately this dealer did not stock the Cyrus range. I've read some really good reviews about Cyrus players/amps and would like to listen to them before I make a purchase.
    The dealer said the Roksan or Naim would be a better partner with the AVR300, because their more upfront sound would counter the laid back sounds of the AVR300. He said Cyrus too have laid back sound similar to Arcam products therefore it might not be a suitable combination. Is this True ??? Would this even be an issue if I got an integrated at a later stage??
    Around half an hour of listening with the Roksan Kandy setup I was very impressed with the sound quality. I was even more impressed with the massive sound detail being generated by the little ProAcs that I ended up buying the speakers instead. I got the Signature version and very nice they are too :thumbsup: , except for the running in time required which is around 2 weeks :(. I'll get the centre and rears at some other time in the future.
    I didn't bother listening to the Naim combo (which I'm not really been keen on anyway because of it's ugly looks) as I didn't see any point as I wasn't going to buy the Roksan or the Naim without having listened to a Cyrus first.

    cheers,
     
  2. overkill

    overkill
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    I've no wish to diss your dealer, but "laid back" is not how I would describe the Cyrus ethos!! I would also question whether modern Arcam gear falls into that category either!! Maybe a decade ago, but not now.

    I would try and find a dealer who stocks Cyrus and listen for yourself. From long experience with their gear I've found that there views simply aren't to be trusted on this one. The dealers demonstrated some good gear there, but he wants a sale. Go and dem the Cyrus and if you can, compare it to the Kandy or Caspian, a Marantz CD17, and for a laugh, an Arcam CD93. See if YOU think he's right. Always listen before you buy!!! :lesson: ;)
     
  3. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Shaka you currently have these transports in place : Arcam Alpha 7 CD, Sony DVP-S536D DVD.

    Buy an offboard DAC section bro. £1000 will buy you the following 2nd hand.

    TAG AVR32 5.1 Digital processor (also includes a nice digital pre-amp for stereo use) £700-1000
    MF Trivista £800-1000
    PT P1A-P3A-Monolith PSU £1000
    Meridian 566 24Bit £1000
    Cyrus X-DAC £1000
    Audio Synthensis £1000-1200
    Chord DAC 64 £1200

    All are more superior IMHO than the CD players you are considering at present on the “sound per pound” basis. Concentrate on the DAC section of your next purchase dude, you already have 2 transports in place that can be used with the DACs above why buy another ?. Purchasing the TAG item opens up a whole new avenue in that 2/3/5 channel PAs can be used in future to offer you an upgrade to your AVR300 also. Im a stereo only man myself and nearly bought one recently for stereo use (with a view to adding PAs), but an integrated amplifier upgrade scuppered that move. Something for you to consider anyway dude many hifi stereo users are now embracing DACs esepcially with the cross format use of digital signals on offer (Not just CD : DVD-V for stereo, Digital radio DAB-Freeview-Sky, PC use, Minidisc or other digital recorders).

    Anyway another option to consider over an integrated player.
     
  4. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    CJ- you missed your favourite brand Audio Note off the list :clown:. They might be a bit laid back for the AVR300 but either a CD2 or DAC Zero might appeal depending on musical taste.
    ToF.
     
  5. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Hey Tons there are plenty of DACs kicking about as you know, Audio Note are one that have many fans (the septics are mad for them as you probably know) So yes a a AN DAC 1.1 Sig is also within the £1000 range, BTW keeping on DACs I notice your using a Yammie HDR-1300, recently over on HFC a dude demo’d a DAC 64 off his HDR-1300, a Naim CD5 and an old Meridian 263 off the HDR-1300.

    Guess which one he went for ;) Anyway thought that may interest you being a HDR-1300 man. Adding a 263 to your system could possibly be better than the CD2 :thumbsup:

    Shaka here is the press release on the Cyrus DAC-X :

    http://www.cyrus.co.uk/news/news_0804_8vs.htm#9

    Looks within your budget. More vibes on it can be found here :

    http://www.rdh.34sp.com/forums/
     
  6. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    I have been mulling this over now and again because the fundamentals of the Yamaha are all there. I have recently however thrown a bit of money at the CD2 (new valve and some mains tweaks) so a change to a DAC off the Yamaha might be postponed for a while. I am super glad I bought the 1300 though, it is quite the best thought out recorder out there.
     
  7. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Shaka...CJROSS's point about an offboard DAC is well worth following.....each of those DACs listed is very good,but the ones that stand out are the MF Trivista,the Chord,and the Perpetual Technologies P1A/P3A.

    I have the latter,although I've also heard the other 2,and rated the P-Tech as being at least equal if not better in most respects,against which you have to weigh the fact that very few dealers stock them here in the UK(I think Conneisseur Audio do),but the sound quality of the DAC and upsampler together is excellent,especially with the ModWright upgrades.
     
  8. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Alex, why no TAG AV32R in your final 3 ?, think of it purely as a DAC section forget all the pre-amp abilities, TAGs digital circuitry is renowned for what it can achieve with CD & DVD-V material, lets assume the latest 192Khz DACs, excellently desgined reclocking circuits – surely a match for any of the DACs mentioned above in stereo mode. Assuming of course it has 2 anlg outputs on it – I assume you could use the Front L&R pre-outs if not into a CD input on a stereo amp ? And dude that is me speaking as DAC 20 owner who finds it hard to believe he will ever replace his DAC section for what it does presently. I think my old TAG DAC comeptes very well with plenty of £1000+ CD players Ive heard in my time. Excellent system synergy a lot of the time is the key to getting better performance, rather than old DACs being “surpassed” by newer technology. Incrimental changes in CD technology are a lot smaller than industry hype would suggest (elst we would not need SACD-DVDA if you believe how much CD technology changes :smashin: )

    Add the flexibility a AV32R offers with Power amping in future. I sometimes think that stunningly good DAC solutions get overlooked purely because newer efforts are released – almost disregarded purely on age terms, Im not doubting any of the DACs mentioned but I cant see what would be superior about a MF Trivista over a 192Khz TAG AV32R used purely as a DAC section to convert CD @ 16/44.1, differing presentation maybe but as you know we all vary in how we like music portrayed.

    I always suggest PT stuff at the £1000 price bracket as Ive rarely seen bad words about them, but the Modwright modifications (another £400 IIRC) seem like overkill when you consider how well the standard kit is rated, one negative point about PT stuff IMHO is that including transport box, you end up with a 4 box CD solution (that’s getting close to having a whole rack dedicated to it dude), if Chord & MF can manage to do it it one box FWIW, surely PT is having problems making well designed units to supply a decent level of playback in one box. Small points in the negative but without doubt If I had the chance of £1000 worth of PT DAC kit or £1000 on a new CD player, I would have to buy a new rack for my 4 box CD player.

    Best regards
     
  9. Shaka

    Shaka
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    Thanks for your views guys. I'll consider the DAC option seriously although I still do prefer the integrated approach purely for the obvious reasons of simplicity, less equipment etc.
    I'm tempted to wait for the Cyrus CD8x to become available so that I can compare it's performance against my existing Alpha 7. I just can't seem to locate it anywhere yet. Incidently because of this the Cyrus CD8 can now be had for around £749 brand new (thanks to Boozyuzi for the info) and at the moment I'm trying to resist the temptation to just go and buy. Yes, I am a very impulsive buyer :D
    The only thing holding me back is that I've never listened to it before so don't what it sounds like. I don't want to buy it, not noticing any significant improvement over the Alpha 7 and then regret it later.
     
  10. overkill

    overkill
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    Don't do it!! "Act in haste, repent at leisure" is VERY appropriate for hi-fi buying. Cyrus gear has a distinctive sound, some love it, many loathe it. Please listen before buying.

    As above the Arcam is a good transport and would be a good DAC partner, but if you don't fancy the extra kit then check the Cyrus against some of the suggested.
     
  11. Knightshade

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    Hi Shaka,
    You sound determined! If it's a true musical upgrade your looking for, follow the advice given here. All is very sound (Excuse the Pun) The Cyrus gear won't be a patch on your current equipment with an added DAC from any of the manufacturers mentioned above.
    If it will influence your choice take a look at my signature and ask yourself why I use an outboard DAC? Quite simply: It's better!
    Good luck,
     
  12. Shaka

    Shaka
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    OK guys, you all seem to strongly favour a DAC over an integrated CD player.
    I have a question though and it might sound like a silly thing to ask, but I've never really looked into this area before and would like to understand a bit more so I know what my options are.
    I think I understand what a DAC does but what does a pre-amplifier do? I was looking at the Cyrus website for the DAC X and there's also a DAC XP available which has a pre-amplifier (dual mono, fully balanced, preamplifier cards !?). What benefit will this have over the standard DAC X and is it something that I would need in my current set-up. Also, does anybody know how the DAC X would compare to any of the other DACs mentioned above?

    cheers,
     
  13. alexs2

    alexs2
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    I didnt include the TAG.as whilst I do own one,I've obviously used it's DAC section,and tried the MF also,and heard the newer DAC sections in AV32R,s,for my ears anyway,the PT is way better.
    Clearer,smoother,better defined,and with much better bass definition....all IMHO of course.
     
  14. Knightshade

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    Hi Shaka,
    It is my opinion that by keeping the signal path as short as possible and as free from unwanted electrical interference as possible you will get better sound. Believe it or not remote control, LED displays, headphone jacks and tone controls all interfere with the audio signal. I know it’s not practical to eliminate everything but the less that’s left the better and more neutral (True) the sound is.
    In answer to your question:
    A pre amplifier amplifies the signal from a source (CD/DVD etc) after digital to analogue conversion to a power amplifier which is the final stage before the signal reaches the speaker drivers. The volume, balance, etc. are controlled at the preamp stage.
    The power amp simply amplifies the signal it is sent. They can be single boxes Pre/Power or combined into a single box ‘Integrated’ amplifier.
    Integrated amplifiers have both a pre amplifier stage and a power amplifier stage in a single box. It is a bit of a trade off. The pre and power stages often share the same power supplies, if not the power supplies the windings to them. You do however have the convenience of a single cheaper solution but with a trade off in performance. How great depends on the quality of the equipment you are looking at.
    A Pre amplifier is just what it says the pre amp stage in one box connected via balanced interconnects to either 2 mono power amps (Monoblocks) or a stereo (Dual Mono) power amp. Add more for Bi Amping.
    The same things apply with this combination as integrated amps. A single power supply for each signal path means better sound. This combination ultimately is more expensive and takes up more room but offers far better sound quality.
    As you can see I am not a great fan of integrated anything! In my opinion it should be kept separate.
    A DAC with a pre amp stage sharing a power supply wouldn’t be on my shopping list. However I can see why it's been combined....
    I can't comment on Cyrus DACS but hearing the Cyrus CD 6 (I think) I wouldn't dash out and buy one. Buying a second hand DAC is a pretty safe bet as there aren’t any moving parts.
    This is of course all my own opinion.
    I hope this helps.
     
  15. Shaka

    Shaka
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    Thanks for clarifying that Knightshade, I understand now. Yes I can see the logic in keeping the signals/power/processing separate but I think for me personally there'd be a level where I'll have to make a compromise between performance and convenience.
    But as I was going to have 2 separate sources anyway: DVD and CD, I don't mind having a quality DVD player and a DAC to give me superior performance in both areas.
    I note you have a Chord DAC 64. I just read the info on Chord website and a couple of reviews elsewhere for it. Sounds very impressive not to mention it's stunning looks, something I would love to have in my rack :) So how does it perform for you? Quite pricey though and outside my budget (for the moment :)). Are there any ex-dems or 2nd hand models about. I had a quick search and didn't see anything. What's comparable to it in performance around my budget?
     
  16. Knightshade

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    Hi Shaka,
    DAC 64's are available for about £1200 second hand. More are starting to come about now. Performance is excellent. The level of detail retrieval is superb and the buffering switch eliminates jitter, resolves timing issues and improves the sound stage dramatically. It's been designed as a transport independant DAC and seems to integrate fully with almost all equipment. The only problems i've had was skipping beginnings of tracks on a LINN UNIDISK with full buffering enabled but apart from that no problems.
    On the sound side. One issue i've come across: I've recently been demoing some Chord PRE/Power amps and found the treble a bit bright. Modification of speaker cables got round the problem and eliminated the harshness. So I would say the DAC 64 may have a tendency towards brightness and careful cable selection is important.
    At no point have I said it was easy or straight forward.....
    As for something that compares to it well at the risk of upsetting a lot of people I don't think there's anything that can compare to it! Sonically or for looks. (It's the magnifying glass and the faint glow from the LED's that does it for me. :cool: ) IMO. But the MF Trivista is a close second.
    The TAG DAC 20 is a very nice piece of kit not as nice to look at as the Chord or as good sonically but still a big hitter in the DAC market. Second hand or ex dem should be well within your budget. Can't comment on Perpetual technologies but if they're as good as Alex says they are you want to try and Listen to one.
     
  17. Shaka

    Shaka
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    I must thank you all guys for introducing me to the DAC route something I had never considered before. I think I probably will go down this path cos with this approach I think I will get the long term significant stereo performance I want without having to buy a separate integrated amplifier and a new CD player. Right .. ?? ??

    Significantly improved stereo performance, aesthetics and simplicity are more important to me than what it states in the technical spec, which is why currently I'm favouring the Chord DAC 64, although it costs more than what I was intending to spend. Unfortunately the nearest stockist I can find is in Leicster, an hour's drive, so I may pay them a visit at the weekend for a demo. I assume they won't let me take one away for a home demo so do you think I should take my own speakers, CD player and the AVR300 (hate disconnecting this and it weighs a f***ing ton)?

    Knightshade mate, as you have one of these beauties I hope you (or anyone else who knows) could kindly answer some questions about it please:
    Does this (or any other DAC) just simply connect to the CD inputs on my AVR300 like my current CD player does?
    Are normal analogue interconnects used to connect this or do you have to use some other method of connection?
    Are there any compatibilty issues with other equipments? ie do you think it will work with my AVR300 and the Alpha 7 CD(which I'll replace with a DVD player at a later stage.)
    The FAQ states something about the outputs on the DAC 64 being phase inverted. What does that mean?
    It also states that
    Huh??
    I am also not familiar with XLR!!
    Sorry if this is all relatively simple.
    Thanks for all your help so far anyway.
     
  18. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Wrong Im afraid Shaka, adding a Chord 64 to a AVR300 is total Overkill yoo wont appreciate how good it is TBH, its like putting a full RS Cosworth body kit on a Ford Fiesta, I think if you are considering a £2000 DAC which by all accounts is pretty stunning, then you should do it justice in the pre-amp / amplifer area, IMHO that means a higher level stereo pre-amp or integrated amplifier (minimum IMHO would be a £1000 Inetgrated amplifier) Compared to adding a CD player for the same money a DAC is a good bet IMHO, but both will be hindered though with the AVR300 as their pre-amp in your set-up. Ie you can pick up a Arcam FMJ 32 for £600 these days this is a different ballgame. There is only so far you can go shoe-horning a AV pre-amp into CD & Vinyl usage. Stereo replay deserves a dedicated stereo facility IMHO.

    1) Yes, just look at it as your CD player connection wise. The real positive aspect though of DACs are that you cut down the fancy ICs connecting up digital source to your amp, ie all that’s required is a digital coaxial lead + one set of anlg ICs to your amp, rather than fancy ICs for each digital source. You cut down in leads.

    2) Normal anlg ICs are fine for DAC usage. Note though to confuse you that some DACs have different anlg conenctions, ie the DAC 64 has balanced XLR outputs these are different from RCA anlg like your AVR300, the DAC 64 also has RCA outputs though.

    The Phase polarity in the DAC 64 is switched I believe due to circuit topology, to many people this makes no difference whatsoever (My amp allows me to phase invert 180 deg) I notice no difference, if it concerns you simple switch L & R ouputs on the 64 to the AVR300s L&R inputs. Ie many people will be listening to the DAC 64 without an idea that it is “out of phase”.

    Shaka, this thread started off with you considering a £800 CD8 to improve CD playback in your current system, its jumped to a DAC 64, sounds to me like a re-appraisal of what you are looking for is maybe in order, one major point of this is that stereo & AV 5.1 rigs usually diverge at certain price points, at the level you are talking of for a CD source here, I feel you are fast approaching that.

    FWIW MF are about to release a new DAC onto the market, an update of their elder X-DAC/X-24K series now in V3 form, this will retail @ circa £400-500 Im led to believe, this in tandem off a DVD-V player into a stereo amp would make a fine alternative to a Cyrus CD8/AVR300 IMHO :

    http://www.musicalfidelity.com/mf/en/Products/SmallX/SXDAC

    Choices choices dude.

    ATB & Im glad you have considered DACs, plenty of audiophiles use them with great results as you can see from the learned gentelmen above.
     
  19. Knightshade

    Knightshade
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    I think CJ maybe right on the DAC 64 being a little strangled by your AV AMP.
    That's the problem with this game. You change one thing and you have to look to upgrade everything else!
    Perhaps a lesser DAC would be a better option? Still giving you a substantial upgrade but possibly beter matching with your other equipment. If you do have this thought, don't listen to the DAC 64...!

    The difference between XLR and RCA. XLR has an earth pin same as a DIN plug. RCA's don't. XLR's are supposed to be better. To be honest high quality RCA leads against XLR's there's not much in it. IMO.

    With regards to problems with the DAC 64. The only thing i've experienced is with certain DVD players (Not All) with full buffering on the DAC, a tendency to skip the 1st second or 2 of a track and with the same DVD players an annoying popping of the speakers when a CD is inserted. Quite painful at high volume. I have never had these problems with CD Players.

    Would the 5 second delay with the buffering cause problems when viewing DVD's? Or is there some way round this? I'm purely a redbook CD man, DVD: I know nothing....

    As CJ says you have a bit of a dilemma. You won't be able to get the best out of the DAC 64 with your current equipment. The only way to make this thing really do it's job to it's full potential is to run it with high end PRE/Power amps. No disrespect intended but I think it maybe overkill. It is afterall a £2000 DAC. Something else to bear in mind the DAC 64 has only one digital connection and 2 coax connectors. So your limited with what you can connect. I think the designers were looking more at the audio than the AV market.
    I know it's a stunning looker and performer but I'm not sure it will give you the results your looking for without throwing money at the amplification stage as well.
    It depends on your plans for the future. If you plan on spending more money in the future on the system it would be a good investment. If you're looking for the best you can get without changing the amp then the DAC 64 wouldn't be the best choice.
    Tough decision! :confused:
     
  20. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Marantz CDPs Knightshade, Ive heard of this dude over on HFC but cant find a link, here is oen to another forum : http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5109
    FWIW I think this highlights a problem with the DAC 64 IMHO, it should be able to be used without problem with ANY transport, it seems quite sensitive when I hear of your and others experiences. Added to the fact that the Mk Is were recalled because their bandwidth spec was so tight that with some Pioneer DVD-V players the 64 could not “lock” onto the input in toslink mode. Bandwidth tolerance was then slackened in Mk I guise to stop this problem from occurring. Not arguing it’s a wonderful sounding piece of equipment but a tad fussy in some circumstances.

    Apart from major Lip synch issues Kshade 4 second time (sound/visual) lag is quite large Im sure you will agree dude, for DVD-V use the DAC 64 needs buffering switched off (I would bet it still sounds stunning) by all account (go and try Dave Gilmours Live Acoustic concert on DVD-V – 24/48Khz stereo stunning).

    The DAC 64 has 3 digital inputs in Mk I Form, 1 XLR/AES 110 balanced digital input, 1 BNC SPDIF coaxial electric input (mostly used by RCA-BNC cables from RCA SPDIF outputs) and a plastic toslink optical input. The Mk II has in addition to the Mk I inputs another 1 BNC connections for use with the £4 Chord Blu to send 96Khz x 2 data stream which the DAC 64 can handle ie upsampled 192Khz pcm from the Blue. Most normal users of the DAC 64 seem to use the Toslink input (seriously I jest not), or a RCA-BNC coaxial cable. Then the XLR AES conenction is for seriously concerned audiophile DAC users who go the whole hog with a dedicated XLR equipped CD transport (You may on your travels Knightshade get a chance to try a Theta Carmerm CD/DVD-V transport or Priamre new DVD-30 Universal player both are DVD-V based and sport XLR Digital ouputs). Anyway the DAC 64 can take 2 transports no problem, ie one using a BNC input and say a DVD-V player using the toslink for example. Worth a try BTW I love what DVD-V sounds like thru a decent DAC.

    ATB

    BTW I agree with you a cheaper DAC than a 64 is a good bet for a AVR300 owner, hence firing in MFs new £500 effort would be more than a match for a Cy CD8 IMHO.
     
  21. Shaka

    Shaka
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    Thanks, again for the input guys. As you know more about this area than I do, I'll take your advice and won't get the DAC 64. Well that's dampened my spirit somewhat. I'm also feeling a tad bit frustrated now to tell you the truth. Why does it have to be so difficult to get some half decent sounds out of a system even when you spend a lot of money on it?
    I listen to my music and watch movies in the same room so I do not want two separate systems, 1 for stereo / 1 for movies. I want to use the same main front speakers for movies and for stereo without having to switch cables, which is why I need to use my AVR300. I've also only bought it less than a month ago and spent more money on a sub and the ProAc speakers so I don't really want to have to spend another £2-3k to get good stereo sound.

    What would I need to get as a minimum to get decent stereo performance with the equipment I already have. Bearing in mind that I need the same speakers to perform for stereo and movies and that I'm perfectly happy with the surround sound performance of the AVR300 so do not require anything extra to give me improvements there. I just need a boost in stereo and it doesn't have to be most highest pinnacle of stereo performance...
    I'm still really keen on the DAC route cos this way I can get a high quality DVD player and also use that as the transport for my CDs.
    I may go down the road of a pre/power amp route in the future (maybe next year), but for the moment I don't want to. Will adding just a pre-amp on it's own to the AVR300 improve things or will I still need a power amp?
     
  22. Shaka

    Shaka
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    BTW the budget is same as before: circa £1000. (Yes I know, the DAC 64 is nearly £2000, but I would have probably only got a 2nd hand or ex-demo at around £1200, if I'd found one.)
     
  23. Knightshade

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    Forgot about the XLR inputs :blush: Hardly anyone has the equipment to use them so.... To be honest I haven't really got into the DVD thing yet but i'll certainly bear your advice in mind.
    Shaka,
    I think you'd be better off just adding any of the DACs mentioned above to your system, see what that does for you first. I wouldn't advice you to play with the amps untill you have the source (CD/DVD/DAC) you are happier with.
    I have an ongoing dilemma with upgrading Amps at the moment :mad:
     
  24. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Shaka, if it were me I would suggest a DAC at the sub £1000 mark, the one that seems to be lighting the heather is the Trivista (I have a soft spot for MF DACs FWIW) Ive seen these recently for £800 second hand, at least you know your source is firing on all cyclinders, the other thing you can do is to test them out with the Alpha 8 amp, this should let you see what you can achieve stereo wise. I can see you problem bro, but the sad fact is that when you combine an AV 5.1 system with a stereo source like CD or Vinyl, often cheaper stereo only solutions can sound better. Its a compromise sometime you have to lump it as it were.

    Why do you think some of us concentrate purely on stereo (even though we keep DVD-V players :smashin: ) BTW I have noticed 2 stunning universal players for sale on the classifieds here for £400 each : Denons 2900, that in tow with a £500 DAC like MFs A3.24 well dude I think that would blow a Cy CD8 into the weeds in not only CD terms, but with the benefit on hi-rez SACD & DVDA.
     
  25. overkill

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    Without wanting to muddy the waters anymore, as this has turned into a "which DAC is best at X price point", this is a good suggestion. :D If, and that's a big if, you want to add SACD and DVD-A. However, as you're using a multi-channel amp already why not take advantage of hi-res 5.1 sound? The Denons a fine player anyway, and you could add a DAC when more cash becomes available. Just a thought...........
     
  26. ukaudiophile

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    Hi Shaka,

    I have to pretty much agree with CJROSS on this one. I have both the Trivista 21 and the Perpetual Technologies (PT) P-1A / P-3A Signature / Monolithic PSU combination. Both are sonically stunning and represent truly astonishing value for money. I have a Musical Fidleity X-Dac V3 and X-10D V3 line buffer arriving next Tuesday to compare with the Trivista and Perpetual combo, a combination which will easily come in under your £1K budget.

    The Trivista 21 has an astonishing sound, very fast, detailed without being clinical, with a little more weight and power in the lower midrange down, where the PT combo delivers more textural information and has a shade more dexterity. Either way, given what you're currently using, I think you'll be delighted.

    One comment I will make about another recommendation is the Mclaren AV32R. As good as the AVR 300 is, the AV32R for £700 is something of a bargain, and I've recently been using the new Flying Mole DAD-M100Pro monoblock amplifiers, 100W/8 Ohm for £320. If you were to sell your AVR 300 you could probably afford to buy 5 of the Flying Mole amps and have a surround sound system which would be astonishing, along with an upgrade in your CD sound.

    Another wildcard is the new Inca Design Katana, either the standard at £600 or the SE at £995. I've ehard both and they are stunning, built like battlecruisers (think 11 Kg for a CD player), the SE has a more open HF, a bigger soundstage, greater dynamic range and more textural detail over the standard Katana, but the standard Katana can pretty much beat anything under £1K anyway. In a shoot out with the Trivista and PT combo, the TriVista and the PT combo are better, but the superiority is not crushing in the way it would be for most other sub £1K CD players.

    To be honest, any of these combinations will probably be much better than even the AVR 300 can show, so this is not just a purchase for today, but will easily see you through an amplifier upgrade or two.

    I hope this helps.

    Best wishes,

    Dave
     
  27. Shaka

    Shaka
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    Hi Dave,

    thanks for the advice, by you and everyone else. I'm afraid that at the moment, due to various reasons I just can't have (don't want) too many boxes in my system. I'm also not in a position to get rid of the AVR300 just yet.
    So what I've decided is in the short term I'll invest in a DAC for increased stereo performance and next year I'll start looking into replacing the AVR300 with a decent separate a/v processor + a pre/power amp combination.
    As the MF Tri-vista 21 keeps getting a lot of praise and the excellent reviews that I've read for it, it is something I'm now leaning quite heavily towards, together with a new DVD player for CD transport and regular DVD use. This will replace my current CD/DVD players (thus maintaining the current boxes count). I am a bit concerned however, as all the dealers I normally get my equipment from keep telling me not to bother with DACs and that they're old hat and nobody uses them anymore !!!!!
    Aside from this concern I'm also be struggling to find a local dealer who stocks these for me to audition this. I think I'll just have to trust your opinions and reviews and just get one without an audition. It's bound to be a lot better than my Alpha 7 CD anyway and that's all that matters to me. If anyone spots one 2nd hand or ex-demo at a good price, please let me know.
    Thanks very much.

    p.s. And just out of interest I'm also thinking about adding a turntable in the future and like the looks of the Michell Gyro SE, Clearaudio Emotion and the Roksan Radius 5/Nima arm. Anybody familiar with these at all?
     
  28. Knightshade

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    Hi Shaka,
    It is getting harder and harder to find dealers who stock DACs. A lot of companies are moving towards total integration. Maybe it's a fashion thing? I wouldn't put much faith in a dealer who gives you information like that! :nono: When you get your DAC go in and play him some music you'll enjoy watching his mouth fall open!
    I don't know about where you can hear the TriVista (Maybe CJCROSS can help you?) I'll look out for anywhere that stocks or can get hold of DACs.
    Which County are you in?
    I'll keep an ear open for any second hand DACs.
     
  29. Shaka

    Shaka
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    Thanks K,
    I'm pretty sure that the TriVista will be better than what I already have so it wouldn't stop me getting it, even if I couldn't demo one.
    My local Sevenoaks is a listed dealer for Musical Fidelity. They don't have any DACs, but I assume if I wanted one from them they could get one in. I just don't want to feel obliged to buy it from them if they did do this as I'd rather get a 2nd hand so I can invest the savings into other things.
    I'm in Cambridgeshire. Thanks again, mate.

    cheers,
     
  30. CJROSS

    CJROSS
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    Knightshade I had a very interesting chat one day with a 7Oaks member of staff who informed me that my Pioneer tran/DAC combo would be soundly beaten by a Roksan Kandy CD player, when I asked him how and preceded to ask him the reasons why it would sound better, "Your obviously not interested in buying one are you" :clap:

    Shaka, I seem to recall Walrus in London having the last stock of Trivistas in the country, would be well worth a day trip IMHO, these guys are also very highly thought of in TT terms by a few dudes in the SE, so you could make it a full days demoing, they stock the widest ranges of TTs in the South IIRC. They also have a wonderful second hand webpage which I will go and find for you. Not far from Cambridge if your serious about your hifi. FWIW All the TTs you mention are very nice, one thing I found out recently was that the Clear Audio Emotion a German TT sells on the Cont. for £500 where as we are charged in excess of £675 IIRC, just something to keep in mind. I still think it looks like a bargain FWIW just that it is in essence a £500 TT, the Gyro SE is not - the Technodec is.

    AAdict I would love to know you vibes on the X-DAC V3, already the review hype suggests that it requires a X-PSU V3 to sound its best (£700), this is the standard line that was spouted when I was using my X-24K, if it does require this PSU (Which I honestly doubt) then MF have replcaed the A3.24 £800 (with a perfectly adequate PSU) with this new unit. smacks of the usual MF hype TBH. In fact you should read the MF webpage to get a good laugh. (anyway I like your idea are you trying to create a cheaper Trivsat with the X-10D valves stage ?)

    Edited to add some links dudes :

    http://www.walrus.co.uk/sechand/sechand.htm

    With a nice LP12 (IMHO) & a Gyro SE FYI, excellent place for TTs BTW. Web renowned.

    AAdict a thread you may find interesting about this new X-DAC :

    http://forum.hifichoice.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=12157
     

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