Stream HD from PC to TV, wirelessly - Ruckus?

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by rpopo, Aug 27, 2006.

  1. rpopo

    rpopo
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    OK - first post, and it's quite an ambitious one, so bear with me.

    Just bought a new Samsung 32" and want to make the most of it. Would like to stream HD from my PC wirelessly. I'm looking at the Ruckus solution (http://www.broadbandcarrier.net/mf2900.htm) connected to a ShowCentre/Mediabox/Snazio.

    More background:
    - I will be getting Homechoice for Internet and TV (Sky/Cable not available)
    - I don't currently have a wireless network at home

    So:

    - If I get the Ruckus access point, can I connect that to the Homechoice STB to provide wireless internet access on my PC (once I've got a PCI card) or will I need a seperate wireless router?

    - In terms of which player to use, the Pinnacle ShowCentre 200 is by far the cheapest option. What am I losing out on if I go for this rather than one of the other ones?

    any advice appreciated.

    Thanks

    p.s. Please see my other post here: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=388038
    I'm also looking for advice on how to get the homechoice content sent back to my PC (e.g. using digisender or slingbox)
     
  2. GlennR

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    I have a Snazzio and I'm delighted with the ease of streaming HD from the PC. I have a wired network, a wireless network will NOT be capable of streaming HD.
     
  3. dan1979

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  4. stratagem

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    The Ruckus is more than capable of HD, that's what it's designed for.

    We've also been selling 200Mbps powerline for over a year now.

    I'm unfortunately not familiar with the Homechoice box, if this contains a router and I would guess it does, then just connect an access point to it.

    http://www.broadbandcarrier.net
     
  5. rpopo

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    Thanks for the advice. After some more research, I'm now leaning towards installing media centre on my PC, and getting an Xbox 360 to stream to. (was thinking about getting one anyway)

    If I go for the homeplug option, do I really need the 200s not the 85s? (after all, my wired network will only support 100)
     
  6. stratagem

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    I tend to assume HD requires 24Mbps, 85Mbps HomePlug will be a bit marginal, 54Mbps Ruckus Wireless will be fine, 200Mbps Powerline will be fine. typical 108Mbps turbo wirless systems wont be up to it, nor will preN and many other contenders.

    Sounds confusing?, I could explain but dont want to bore you all, the point is the quoted speed doesn't mean a lot on it's own, it's a bigger picture.

    On Powerline there are three standards at 200Mbps,
    UPA, we sell Corinex, and have for about a year now.
    UPA, we are expecting Panasonic (proprietry UPA) early November.
    HomePlug, just released by a number of manufacturers.

    Pick the one you go with carefully as they wont mix.
     
  7. rpopo

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    OK thanks. Have just read another review saying that the 85Mbps plugs are more like 10-15Mbps, so I believe you on that one.

    Am tempted by the Ruckus, but obviously it's not yet in common usage, which puts me off a bit. With that one, does it work both ways round (i.e. can I have the 2501 connected to the PC, and the Media Centre Extender wired to the router, or do I need the 2501 connected to the destination for the video, rather than the source.

    Thanks for the help - I know you have a vested interest Strategem, but it's very useful advice nonetheless
     
  8. stratagem

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    Yes that's right I'm vested so I'm trying to keep away from actual recommendations, just information.

    The Ruckus is used in a big way in US and Europe where IPTV is being rolled out, the UK is well behind in this so the need for this product is not so high, hence the lack of visibility. It is also usually sold by Ruckus only to ISP's, and then provided as part of a package of IPTV. To some degree we're just waiting for the UK to catch up and selling to early adopters.

    You can use both the access point and the adaptor or just one or the other, either way it improves the wireless network, the best of course is an access point connected to the router to create the wireless network and an adaptor on the STB, any other standard wireless device you have ie notebook can connect to the access point as well.

    As far as streaming direction goes it doesn't matter, it works the same in both directions. The key factors are that it recognises (QoS) a video stream and gives it the priority it requires, and that it avoids interference from other sources.

    (Ruckus licence their patented beam switching antenna to Netgear who use it in their Rangemaster router, but they do not licence out their patented QoS system to anyone)

    200Mbps powerline (Corinex, anyway) has also rolled out in high volume in US and Europe for the same reasons and also uses QoS to prioritise video streams.

    Both of these products exist for the emerging IPTV market

    When you are moving data between computers its done packet by packet, each one is checked as received ok, if not resent. For video there's no time for this so it's just thrown out with best endeavours, QoS clears the road for this so nothing gets in it's way. So you can watch your video while someone is surfing the net, these devices are designed for these multiple activites.

    Sorry a bit long winded and still no clear answer, but I hope it helps.
     
  9. rpopo

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    OK. I think I'm sold on the Ruckus. Will make sure I post the results once I get it up and running. Might not be for a couple of weeks though.
     
  10. dodgyd

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    The Ruckus looks great if it delivers on its promise. Is this a non standards based technology? Or is it just 802.11g with some antenna enhancements? I thought 802.11n was going to give us all this and more?
    Dave.
     
  11. stratagem

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    The Ruckus is fully 802.11g standard, meaning you can use any 802.11g device with it or even 802.11b, stick with g for video though, meaning you don't have to throw all your WiFi kit away to use N.

    It is it's two key improvements that set it aside..

    It has a six way directional antenna array which can produce up to 64 different antenna patterns, this dynamically creates the strongest signal between devices and avoids interference.

    You need to understand that a wireless works a bit like a person when going between rooms, it finds the route it can take, it often will not go through solid walls so it relies on whatever reflections find a doorway, or something it can penetrate, the ruckus just points straight at the doorway with all of it's energy or it may choose to bounce of a wall or two then through the door. It will decide whats best. And no, you don't have to leave the door open!

    It then looks at what traffic you're delivering and prioritises it so that the latency critical flows are uninterrupted, ie Video, VoIP, Music, Data.
    Data doesn't matter, you can break it up into packets, send it all over the world, put it back together again and you would never know, loose a frame in Video or VoIP and you know straight away.

    Quite a bright piece of plastic really, and it looks a bit like a starship.
     
  12. tinners

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    Anyone got Ruckus up and running and working OK where they could not get 802.11g to stream media ?
     
  13. C4man

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    I've got a Ruckus setup and am easily streaming SD material. I still find HD to be hit and miss, although if I use the 108Mbs mode it's much better (but not perfect). I still have some tweaking to do though. My throughput with Ruckus without 108Mbs is about 20-25% better than my normal 802.11g with Router/PCI card.
     
  14. tinners

    tinners
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    Anyone else got this working for TV / HD ?

    Are you using the Ruckus MIMO MF2900 Access Point + MF2501 Adaptor or just the Adaptor ?

    Will the Adaptor support a connected switch OK ?
     
  15. Azzin

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    ^^ What he said. :smashin:
     
  16. stratagem

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    Yes me, not surprisingly. Actually I use in in g+b mode so that my phone can connect to it as well, (the way it comes out the box).

    I haven't yet found a HD stream that it cannot handle, one simple trick is to place your access point as high as practical, ie on a shelf not just on the desk. (same for all wireless products).

    I have a switch on my adaptor connected to Helios X5000, Snazio, Squeezebox, and some other bits, all set with static IP addresses.

    I have run test streams at 6, 8, 12Mps as I understand it the Snazio has a max rate of 15Mbps and the Helios is 20Mbps so any test approaching these rates is probably pointless, however it should handle up to 24Mbps.

    The access point is connected to my router which is connected to the server PC via a switch, security is WPA.

    Within the adaptor is a button marked Survey, pressing this will display the existing wireless signals it can see, just try and avoid existing channels or set it to auto. Take chan 1 if its available, as only 1, 6, & 11 are non-overlapping and at lot of common products ship on 11.

    Of course there are some enviroments where wireless just cannot work no mattter what, for this we have another solution.

    If in doubt you can always contact us of course, tell us what the house is like and we can recommend.
     
  17. C4man

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    I have HD streaming to my Xbox 360 from a media center PC, using a MF2900Access Point + MF2501 Adaptor. The access point is plugged into the Xbox.
     
  18. tinners

    tinners
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    Another option

    NETGEAR Powerline HD Receives “Kick Ass” Product Designation from Maximum PC Magazine
    Looks good. About £130 on the interweb.

    Edit: A consumer's review here
    And this guy has an old house with old wiring like mine :)
     
  19. dan1979

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  20. stratagem

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    I'm always impressed with Netgear's marketing power, just bear in mind this "new" product is the same chipset that Corinex has been shipping for over a year now, this has an installed base of 10's of thousands as it has been taken up by Euro and USA ISP's for the delivery of IPTV.

    The latest take up is Belgicom (Belgium IPTV provider), they offer their consumers a choice of either Ruckus wireless or Corinex Powerline.
     
  21. stratagem

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  22. tinners

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    Nice to see a balanced review :D
     
  23. dan1979

    dan1979
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    What do you need done?

    Ultimately I bought a 25 metre patch cable plus loads of trunking from B&Q, it's not ideal (damn door frames) but it was pretty cheap and it works perfectly.
     
  24. C4man

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    For me the Netgear solution was too flakey, reporting more than 100Mbps but actually not delivering more than about 20. It is totally dependent on your wiring, older doesn't necessarily mean worse.

    I gave up after 2 days trying to get it to work with various configurations and took a chance with the Ruckus system. For me this works much better.
     
  25. gregh

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    out of interest how did you guys work out the actual thruput you are really getting?

    I've been mucking around with the positioning of my 11g antenae to up the transfer rates, managed to get it up from under 1Mbps to around 6 so far!

    All I'm doing is timing how long it takes my Xbox using XBMC to display a large picture, so not the most scientific way!

    Regards,

    Greg
     
  26. nicnic

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    Have you tried streaming DVD ISO's on the Ruckus? I'm tempted to try it with the XBMC but everytime I have in the past its failed miserably..
     
  27. stratagem

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    You can get a rough fix transfering a file of say 100Mb between computers, but really to quote these kind of acheived data rates you need to measure both TCP and UDP and of course you need to know which protocol is used for which transmission and whether you're multicasting or unicasting.

    In simple terms TCP is the normal handshaking protocol that you use for transfering files packet by packet, it sends a packet, checks it, resends if not perfect, etc. Hence, there is a lot of data extra to the acual file size that has to move across the network with this communication.

    For latency critical applications you havent got the time for all this checking, resending etc to happen, UDP is a best endeavours protocol, it just throws out the data and depends on the network and receiving device to be good enough to collect it at the same rate.

    The two figures are quite different.
     
  28. nicnic

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    I've purchased the Ruckus MIMO MF2900 Access Point + MF2501 Adaptor from Stratagem for the purpose of streaming content from my PC to my XBOX MC in the living room.

    I've so far managed to watch a few episodes of Lost in XViD, a couple of full feature XViD films and a few episodes of 24 from the full 8Gb DVD ISO on my PC. The wireless connectivity itself is flawless, DVD's play exactly as if they were in the DVD drive. I've not tried any HD content.

    So top marks for the Ruckus hardware, cannot fault it. 10Meg NTL Internet is also distributed throughout the entire house, which is an added bonus.

    The only problems I'm having is with the XBOX itself. It can play every format I throw at it (except Apple Lossless for some reason, although I read it should be possible). It just seems a little buggy, locks up quite a lot of the time when swapping videos etc. Using the MC360 skin, maybe thats the cause.. The XBOX is also very noisy when the TV isn't on even with the fans at 10%.. I just wish there was something like XBMC, without the fans and a little more stable, but for now I'm near enough where I want to be and intend to buy another couple of XBMC's for the rest of the house :)

    Thanks Stratagem!
     
  29. tinners

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    Thanks for the info, really useful.

    As a matter of interest what signal strength were you getting before Ruckus ? And what path does the wireless need to traverse to get between your AP & Xbox ?

    I am still umming and ahhing about whether to get 200Mb homeplug or Ruckus.

    Would recommend a 360 but they're just so noisy it's untrue.
     
  30. nicnic

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    I had a D-Link DI-624 802.11g 108Mbps router with matching PCI card. Supposedly great. but in reality utter toss!!!! It couldn't even hold down a stable internet connection never mind stream DVD's.. I've also tried a wireless video sender unit a while back and it failed hoorribly.

    I'm already 100% confident in the performance of the Ruckus, 2 or 3 dvd's have streamed about 15ft through 2 walls without a single hicup. I cannot comment on the HD side of things, but for anything up to DVD bandwidth it rocks!
     

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