Strange VB on 700

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by fallwood, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. fallwood

    fallwood
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    Got my 700 yesterday and spent all last night setting it up and testing. Did the flicker tweak after it had been on for about 3 hours and all was fine. Got up this morning turned it on and VB was huge, went into flicker tweak and it was a mile off, read that someone had this prob after he turned it off at mains but mine was in standby all night. Have re-adjusted flicker and it seems ok, how long does it take for a 700 to settle down after first using it.
     
  2. fallwood

    fallwood
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    came in tonight and turned pj on and flicker tweak has changed again. it seems to depend on how long the pj has been on when i do the adjustment, if i adjust it when its been on for a few hours it then looks bad when its first turned on, if i adjust it after about 30mins it then looks bad a few hours later. Didnt have this problem on my 500 adjusted it once after a few hours of use and it never needed touching. What the hell is going on ??.
     
  3. fallwood

    fallwood
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    Anybody ?.
     
  4. andhoey

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    sorry to hear about the vb. there was a mention of settings changing in another thread could've been philfyspoon in 'my review'. i should be getin my 700 next week hopefully so im very interested in any probs thats happening. where did you get it from and what inputs are you using.
    p.s thought i'd reply cos its a pain when nobody wants to chat.
    off to fix ma car now. :)
     
  5. fallwood

    fallwood
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    Thanks for the reply. i was begining to think id upset everybody for some reason. I got it from krish av , Im using it mostly through vga via a hcpc with radeon 9600 se. Cant suss the flicker tweak it just keeps changing, Ive opted for a middle ground setting that gives some vb for an hour or so and then calms down, bit of a pain if I want to watch a film immediately and the pj hasnt been on, this is fairly rare though as its used as my main tv so its on most of the time. Thing that bugs me the most is that this didnt happen on my 500 and vb was the main reason I upgraded (3 months after buying my 500 which is now away for refund or repair).Anyone else seeing such huge changes in vb depending on how long the pj has been on.
     
  6. scot1314

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    yes i have same

    the problem is that the VB is very obviously temperature dependant

    so when you set it up and do the tweak by adjusting the panel flicker if you set it up straight away then as the pj warms it changes.

    i have about three different settings for each panel - one for when i first swicth on, another for after half an hour, and a third for an hour +

    another trick is that the best result is not by nulling each panel. i null the blue and red, and then i adjust the flicker on the green. if you go to the service menu with the test patterns, there is a white screen i think on the 5th item in, and this is the one that you want to null the flicker on.

    when i first got my pj i could not see any vb but now i can see it. it can be minimised but it takes a bit of trila and error. the dissapointing thing is that they could have put a bit of circuitry in to auto tune the vb to minimal rather than us having to do it manual.

    i have characterised my panels with respect to vb now so i can easily minimise it now.

    anyone who says this pj unit has no vb is not telling the truth methinks.
     
  7. andhoey

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    that sounds a total pain in the butt :mad: i think i'll just cancel the order making adjustments all the time while watching a movie would totally ruin it for me. im surprised there hasnt been more on this topic of constant adjustments. i would much prefer the rainbows to that :(
    could it be the lcd panels contracting & expanding therefore the distance between pixels changing.
    maybe we should start emailing pana for a firmware upgrade to automaticaly adjust settings.
     
  8. fallwood

    fallwood
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    Funny thing is that my mate doesnt have this problem with his, when he got it a few weeks ago I adjusted it for him and its been fine ever since, looks the same when its first turned on as it does after its been on all night. My unit is ceiling mounted could it be that it only effects units that are in ceiling mode or could it be an issue that only effects a few machines, just my luck to get another of the "small number of machines effected " units (my ea100 & 500 both had the flicker problem, glad to say my 700 doesnt "yet")
     
  9. andhoey

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    you should swap pj's with him and see what happens(machines i meant) :rotfl:
     
  10. Beano

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    Can anybody tell me how to remove/minimize the VB... PLEASE ??

    I have requested this info on other threads but nobody have posted the info...

    Please please... TIA
     
  11. OneEyedStuart

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    When I demod the AE700 down at Ben's I never saw any VB. I have since installed it in my house projecting onto a 203cm DRH Slimline. A friend who also demod one at Ben's, and did see VB on that unit, never saw any on the one I have in the house. Either that or my eyesight is going lol

    Some people have said that when going into the setup to adjust the flicker tweak the panels were flickering away like mad. I go into the setup on this and the colours are completely stable.

    I think that the VB issue on the AE700 has to be on a unit by unit basis, it doesn't seem to be across the board. Currently through setting up and just general use, my AE700 has approx 20 hours on it. Hope it doesn't develop VB after settling down.

    Regards
    Keith Hurst
     
  12. miker

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    firstly Beano - HOW TO REMOVE VB - I am not convinced anyone knows for sure - when I find out I will try and remember to tell you. But the flicker tweak is flavour of the month right now. How to do that - go into the menu and hold down the ENTER button for 5 secs over the OSD menu option. The rest you will see.

    2nd -
    Only had my AE700 for 3 days. Because I got a new 2910 as well, it was only last night I had finished tweaking! :boring: Anyway. There are many issues with this sort of technology and the media. I have learnt that the better your equipment the more fussy the film. I admit over the nine hours of viewing I have seen VB once or twice for around 2 secs. I watched the whole of Day After Tomorrow last night without one problem and was very impressed - Faultless.. And I am very fussy! I too think the amount of VB you get depends on the projector. Right now (and this may change if VB returns) my best solution was to adjust the gamma in the HIGH. (in the advanced menu)

    by the way I am running 720/750p on HDMI. With Enhanced black turned on.

    3rd - Automatic Iris!!! Has anyone heard this! When you turn the AE700 on I get a double clunk type of sound. That is the Iris opening and closing in a sort of self test. The problem is when watching Titanic there is a part where they are under water and the lights are flickering in the film. Of course the Iris is trying to keep up and, low and behold, CLUNK CLUNK. :rolleyes:

    Has anyone else noticed this??

    Very rare I know but as this is the forum of knowledge I would like to find out if it is just my unit that has faulty 'big ends' :blush:
     
  13. Beano

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    Thanks for the tips :)

    I'll try that tonite.... I'v read about the hiden "Flicker menu" but I didn't know if that could be used for minimizing VB.

    My observations reg. VB is that they are quite visible for the first 30 min, then they seems to fade away as the projector getting warmer.
    Quite annoying :(
     
  14. Lapinou

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    Similarly, VB is an issue for me only for the first 30-40 minutes of projector use, when it has reached a normal operating temperature there is no VB at all.
    This initial VB can be reduced by adjusting the flicker every 15 minutes or so, but it is still there until the projector is warm (and you put the flicker back to 25-26 factory setting). Also there is the possibility that VB will disappear (or get worse!) over time, most peoples 700's are pretty new, mine has only 19 hours of use, so who knows.
    I show some cartoons & shorts before the main feature each evening whilst it is warming up :)
    No idea if VB is dependent upon the signal, as has been suggested. I am using a 10m SVHS cable until my HDMI cable arrives, I'll see if it changes things. I doubt it, VB seems like a design 'feature' of the projector rather than 'noise'.

    On the subject of iris noise, I have heard it as it starts up, very quiet, this is only perceptable in a completely silent room. When a film is running with sound then I can't hear anything. This is with the projector mounted on a shelf just 50cm above my head.
     
  15. Beano

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    Stop it !... You are scaring me :(

    Actually I'm quite sure that there were no VBs when the projector was new.
    I have now used it for about 50 hours.
     
  16. jamesgrahamuk

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    This sounds awful. My 700 is due to arrive tomorrow and all of this talk of vertical banding is beginning to worry me enormously...
     
  17. fallwood

    fallwood
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    I am still in a daze at the thought of having to constantly re-adjust the flicker settings as my pj warms up, this is the biggest pile of BS I have ever come across, ive owned 3 different panny pj's over the last 3 years and none have had this problem , why has such a huge pain in the ass problem been allowed to get past testing and out to the retail market. Cant see myself accepting this as the norm , had to adjust it twice while watching a film last night and it completely p***ed me off to the point where i nearly put it back in its box to send to back. Slight constant VB I can live with but the enormous amount of vb I get when its first turned on is a joke. I am going to contact panasonic tech today and see if I can get some answers. Can anyone elaborate on the "turn it off at the switch" method ive read about over at avsforum, from what i can make out its not good to leave it in standby mode overnight but doesnt say if it does any permanent damage.
     
  18. jamesgrahamuk

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    Fallwood,

    I would have assumed that the severity of the problem you have would warrant sending the unit back and getting it exchanged. I understand that the AE700 may exhibit slight VB in certain conditions however your problem sounds like much more than that...

    What seems strange is that many people seem to be putting up with serious difficulties when in the same situation I know that I would be sending my unit back!
     
  19. fallwood

    fallwood
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    Just spoke to krish av and I think im going to have to send it back, given that ive seen other 700's that dont have this problem I think it could be to do with the batch that my pj came from, over the past week quite a few people have reported this issue over at avsforums but it was unheard of previously (the huge sweeps in vb not just general vb). Bloke at krish says mine came from his 5th batch and my mates came from the 1st so theres a pointer.
     
  20. Lapinou

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    For those who fear be aware that the VB issues on the AE700 are extremely minor, at their worst they are *just* visible on less than 1% of scenes (those with moving large swathes of constant colour and contrast).

    Also, these minor artifacts disappear after 30 minutes, and can be adjusted away with 4 button presses.

    No need to panic! They appear to one degree or another on LCD projectors, I've never seen one without them. The AE700 has the most minor artifacts of any I've seen, including the Sanyo Z3 (if they are both tweaked correctly).

    This is an area where demos are almost useless, unless all the projectors you are testing are well calibrated and have been run up to operating temperatures it is impossible to make an objective comparison.
     
  21. Beano

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    I don't wan't to scare potential buyers here - but VB are VERY noticeable in 50% scenes on my PJ.... for the first 30 min after that they are 99% gone.

    So I wouldn't say it minor at all !
     
  22. jamesgrahamuk

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    I'll say it again: I think that many AE700 owners who are experiencing severe problems are interpreting them as 'just VB' - and henceforth continuing under the impression that this is somehow normal.

    A little VB, as described by Lapinou, is probably to be expected although anything more, as described by Beano and others, would (in my opinion) warrant immediately sending the unit back from whence it came....
     
  23. DEANO-B

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    Lets get this VB issue sorted. A lot of people don't seem to see VB when they have it, and some people complain if they see any at all. The problem people have is not knowing what is acceptable! I have a AE700 and am completely :thumbsup: happy with mine. I am very fussy when it comes to picture quality and so is my mate (FALLWOOD who started this thread). Let me assure people out there - I have no noticable VB after my mate performed the VB tweak, and it appears to me that my mate, and others who have to do the VB tweak every day have faulty machines! I think personally it is a batch problem, as these complaints have just started. You have spent over a grand on a machine and I would advise you to get it replaced ASAP.
     
  24. Beano

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    I'll try the flicker tweak tonight and post my results here - I hope it solves my problems :|

    Which "flicker" setting (value) do you use ?
     
  25. redknag

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    I get quite bad VB too, but it does get a lot better once the PJ is hot. I only picked mine up from Krish on Friday, so will try tweaking for a while longer before I complain. Apart from the VB, everything else about it is top notch.
     
  26. Beano

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    Woohoa !

    I just applied the "flicker tweak" - setting R/G/B to the same value (1D) so the flickering dissappeared.

    No more VB... at least I have to realy be looking for it now :)

    I will see if I need to reajust the flickering again after an hour of use when the projector is warmed up...
     
  27. redknag

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    The penny just dropped - Thanks Beano. I was adjusting just the blue. Now have set RGB to 1C and all VB has gone. The beginning of Troy has a lot of sky and sand scenes that looked pretty awefull before. But now is pretty well perfect. Thank god for pretty women and forums. Cheers again. :thumbsup:
     
  28. miker

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    Do you have Titantic? The scene is where Kate has just rescued Leonardo and they are trying to get back up to the top of deck but are swimming down the corridors. The lights are flashing and the Iris goes mad. I have my sound up very loud and the PJ is about 1.5m above my head. I don't really mind about the noise as it would be very rare that this could happen and I can always turn it off. Just wondered whether is was normal or not.

    Cheers Mike

    p.s. I quick way to test is when you first turn it on of an evening.
     
  29. Beano

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    Did some more testing...

    As expected (and feared) I had to "flicker" adjust again back to the original values after 30-40 minutes hour, since VB began to appear.

    So finding the correct balance between the two might be the soultion if I don't want to "flicker tweak" manually everytime I watch a movie... but why the projector can't do this automaticly, is beyond me !!!
     
  30. fallwood

    fallwood
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    What flicker settings are people using, i have to have mine around 27 on all the panels when the pj has warmed up, does this sound about right. Did a test today that confused me a bit, first I ran the machine for an hour and then did the flicker tweak , no VB, then I turned it off by the remote and once the fan had stopped turned it off at the switch. I let the pj cool for a few hours and then switched it back on, no VB (strange), I then checked the panels , no adjustment needed ran it for an hour and still no adjustment was needed. Then I switched it of with the remote and left it in standby for 2 hrs , switched it back on and it was VB city. As per the posts over at avsforum it seems to make a huge difference to the VB if the pj is left in standby mode, surely most people will leave their machines in standbymode for some period of time. I am now using an x10 appliance module linked to my home automation pc to switch the machine off at the mains 5 minutes after it receives the command to turn off the projector (using a redrat3 ir blaster), seems to be working fine but for people who dont have any HA gear its an expensive route to go down.
     

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