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Strange Japanese HD feed

Discussion in 'TVs' started by Hellicopter, Jul 24, 2005.

  1. Hellicopter

    Hellicopter
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    Untitled in NTSC on sat Eutel W2:-

    16e 11163 H
    s/r 27489
    auto fec

    Courtesy Satelliweb
     
  2. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Do you mean NTSC or 60Hz HD such as 1080/60i or 720/60p? By definition NTSC can't be HD... (NTSC is 480/60i - and to be strictly accurate NTSC should really only be used to describt a composite or s-video signal, not a 480/60i component source, though there is an argument that NTSC can be used to describe any 525/60 signal)

    (Or is this another sighting of a standard def broadcast from an HD source - as Live 8 - where because it says "HD" on the bars or ID people assume the signal is HD?)
     
  3. Hellicopter

    Hellicopter
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    Ah the pedantry. 60hz it is ,then.

    Whether it is HD,I am very happy for you to judge on your set up.

    Meanwhile I'll report on 'feedhunters' forum in the future.

    Alan
     
  4. AML

    AML
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    Im a bit confused by this thread.

    Yes HD is available in japan. I dont understand why you are calling it strange as its exactly the same as every other HD system. :confused:

    I also dont think you have the right to call it that since you dont even have HD in the UK yet.
     
  5. Hellicopter

    Hellicopter
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    But we do have Euro 1080 HD and a Qualitv Set Top Box to decode it.Plus it decodes 4.2.2 feeds whether in HD or SD.
    So tell us whether you are seeing a live HD picture from Italy on any broadcast channel in Japan.
     
  6. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    One person's pedantry is another one's accuracy.

    Using NTSC to mean 60Hz and PAL to mean 50Hz is a pet hate of mine - particularly when NTSC or PAL are used to describe non-subcarrier based formats... (Like HD, or digital component SD)

    Apologies if my post came off as rude - it wasn't meant to be. However there have been quite a few posts in the past detailing "HD" broadcasts that have turned out to be standard def component (aka "PAL" or "NTSC" - though in fact not PAL or NTSC at all but MPEG2 component digital) downconverts. Just wanted to clarify.
     
  7. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Except that it isn't.

    There are at least three different HD formats (plus a pseudo HD format) being broadcast around the world, and quite a large number of different delivery systems.

    Japan uses 1080/60i.
    The USA uses 1080/60i AND 720/60p.
    Australia and the small number of European HD broadcasters (like Euro1080/HD-1) use 1080/50i.
    Australia also uses 576/50p (called HD over there but not really regarded as such)

    The form of HD used in the US in Japan - 1080/60i - is NOT the same as that used in Europe - 1080/50i. Hence the differentiation of the OP.

    There are ATSC 8-VSB, COFDM DVB-T, DVB-S, ISDB and other delivery systems...

    I'd argue that "NTSC" is a poor choice of words to describe 60Hz HD - but the HD used in Japan and the US is not the same used in Europe and Aus.

    Err - except we do. HD-1 - a 1080/50i HD service - has been on-air for quite a while now and broadcasts to the bulk of Europe via a number of satellites (and the UK is in Europe). It uses MPEG2 via DVB-S and can be received via standalone HD receivers or PCs with cheap DVB-S cards. It is encrypted some of the time but FTA at others. There are also a number of other demo HD channels around on satellite. There are also German Windows Media HD DVD-ROM releases - and D-Theater decks are being imported.

    Whilst it is true that there are not currently any UK HD broadcasts - that doesn't mean we don't have HD in the UK.
     
  8. Quickbeam

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    At risk of taking the pedantry even further, surely NTSC can't be used to describe an S-VIDEO signal as NTSC and PAL are composite colour systems?

    I agree it doesn't make much sense to refer to 60Hz HD as NTSC or 50Hz HD as PAL. That said, it's standard practice to label DVDs NTSC or PAL even though they aren't encoded PAL or NTSC. Who knows, maybe HD-DVDs will continue this tradition.
     
  9. Hellicopter

    Hellicopter
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    Stephen-Thanks for your comments.
    It was definitely 60 hz (my Sagem makes a strange noise when changing the refresh rate.)
    Virtually certain it was HD and in 422 though obviously it would have been useful to know the bit rate.The Quali box did show it as HD.
    The Japanese program being fed seemed to be a tour of Italy over the last few days so maybe it will show up again tomorrow.

    Alan
     
  10. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    The S-video case is an interesting one. Given that the C/Chroma signal of s-video is a PAL or NTSC encoded subcarrier - then I think you probably can use PAL or NTSC as a description. The only difference between Composite and S-video is that the luma and chroma components aren't mixed together in S-video and instead are carried on different pins (to avoid cross-luma and cross-chroma artefacts) So in S-video the subcarrier encoding IS the same as composite - and as such I think PAL composite and PAL S-video are valid descriptions.

    I guess as there is no SECAM S-video you could use 50 and 60 as descriptions - but I think it is far more valid to use PAL and NTSC in the case of S-video than it is to use it with component subcarrier-free techniques?

    (AIUI there is no SECAM S-video - with all SECAM devices using SECAM to/from PAL transcoding to get to and from composite SECAM?)
     
  11. Muf

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    Alan, thanks for posting. Could you confirm the Freq and S/R, I tried to tune in at about 5 pm and got nothing, not even a carrier signal.

    Jim
     
  12. AML

    AML
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    Im sorry, but why would I want to watch italian TV? :confused:

    Anyways. Ive been using Japanese HDTV for about 2 years now.

    Quality varies between channels but is generaly good.

    I dont know the details (50/60hz) but i do know all the channels are 1125i (or 1080i)

    Sound is AAC with movies and 2.0 with TV shows.

    There are no more SD TV chanels if you are using a digital set top box. Every chanel is HD.

    We have 10 regular terrestrial channels (jp regular TV like NHK) and 60 cable chanels. As well as pay per view movie chanels and so forth.

    Oh and conection wise we can only use Component or D4.
    Both analog.

    Optical for sound. (digital)

    No digital video conections yet!
     
  13. Hellicopter

    Hellicopter
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    Jim-Parameters are at the top of thread.Went off at 4 30pm uk time.
    Worth checking tomorrow pm.

    AML-It was a feed from Italy for Japanese TV.

    Alan
     
  14. AML

    AML
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    They must have been covering some event. Maybe the cycling?

    If so then they would have brought hi def (or "hi vision" as they like to call it) cameras.
     

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