Stopped getting ITV,CH4 etc on sky box, why?

Discussion in 'Sky Digital TV Forum' started by Ricky27, Jul 22, 2003.

  1. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    Hi, i have had a sky digibox for a number of years and recently stopped my sub to the family pack.
    Now i can only get BBC channels and sky news, no ITV,CH4 or 5, are these now pay channels on sky?
    It is saying on screen that there is a problem with my viewing card, but BBC works a treat.
     
  2. Starburst

    Starburst
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    The BBC channels now broadcast FTA and don't require a smartcard. SKY are currently changing the encryption for the FTV and subscription channels so you will need either a current subscription smartcard or a version2 Solus (BBC FTV card) which are no longer being issued.

    The situation is still very fluid and regulators are looking into the problem of being able to receive the FTV channels without requiring a SKY subscription.
    Hopefully they will force ITV, CH4, Five or SKY to supply new FTV cards without requiring you to pay £12.50 a month to SKY along with £116 a year to the BBC!
     
  3. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    Thanks, i have the new card from sky which was issued a few months ago, so i guess it's back to the ariel for ITV etc for now.
     
  4. terryb

    terryb
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    So you installed the new card ?, but Sky decided that if you did not subscribe to their packages then you were not going to get to see ITV, C4 and C5. I had a fear that it was not just about paying out one years subscription to Sky to get the new card, because they would just turn you off at the end. I think this is what you are saying.
     
  5. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    Yep, i asked sky about it because i had to call them to get another card cos mine is faulty, they said unless you subsribe to one of their packages, you will not get ITV,CH4,CH5.
    The minimum sub is £12.50 to get these.
    They said something about ITV etc not transponding with their cards like the BBC do.
     
  6. wandgrudd

    wandgrudd
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    sorry but i think you are wrong as we no longer have sky after getting rid of the family pack (stoped getting it on the frist of may)
    we now have no pay channels from sky but still get ITV,CH4,CH5 so what you say would seem to be wrong. (that goes for both sky boxs as we had a extra sub for the room)

    we get this lot now

    Non-subscription as taken from http://www.sky.com/skycom/packages

    BBC ONE
    BBC TWO
    ITV1 London
    Channel 4
    five
    BBC THREE
    BBC FOUR
    Travel Channel
    Travel Channel 2
    S4C ~ Digitol
    Life TV
    Showcase
    Fashion TV
    Game Network
    You TV
    AVAGO
    BEN
    Reality TV
    Classics TV
    Performance
    TCM
    gobarkingmad
    Motors TV
    Extreme Sports
    Chart Show TV
    Video Vault
    Classic FM TV
    channel U
    BBC News 24
    BBC Parliament
    CNN
    S42 ~ 2
    ITV News Channel
    Euro News
    CCTV9
    CBBC
    CBeebies
    TV Travelshop
    TV Travelshop 2
    PIN
    Ideal World
    Screenshop
    Shop America
    Travel Deals Direct
    Simply Shop
    Best Direct
    Simply Home
    Simply Ideas
    TV Warehouse
    Shopping Genie
    bid-up.tv
    Thomas Cook TV
    Telsell
    letsgoshop+
    Auction World
    Shop on TV
    Simply Hols TV
    Thane Direct
    ShopSmart
    TVWarehouse
    Shop 24/7
    Stop+ Shop
    Yes
    Screenshop 2
    TGH
    JML Direct
    Phoneworld
    Vitality
    Going Places TV
    Factory Outlet
    God Channel
    God 2
    Wonderful
    TBN Europe
    Christian TV
    Revelation
    TV Job Shop
    Community Channel
    Dating Channel
    txt me
    Open Access
    TDC2
    TX1
    Create & Craft
    B4U Music
    PCNE Chinese
    mta- muslim TV
    Abu Dhabi
    Asia TV
    BBC 2W





    wandgrudd
     
  7. terryb

    terryb
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    Now I am wishing I did not start this one off again. It's going to happen in August, Sky will pull the plug on FTA channels that use their encryption. What we are talking about is scrambled channels i.e. ITV, C4 and C5, which are FTA on other platforms and were considered to be on Sky. The Sky card or the BBC card did the trick for you. Melt down in relations between broadcasters and ITV / C4 and C5 have refused to pay Sky for the "FTA" agreement that the BBC was paying, making the channels outside of the FTA package.

    It's so convenient that Sky were to send out the new cards for the BBC but did not just before the contract was scrapped and that Sky will turn off their new version of the cards that are out if you don't subscribe. So it's good bye ITV, C4 and C5. All those channels that work without the card will continue to work unless the broadcaster goes under or they come to an agreement with Sky to scramble it.

    I never did like Sky, I have cable and FTA but my mother three years back needed digital for her new widescreen TV so I bought her the dish. It's stupid people going on about pressing TV on the remote and using anal. there is no widescreen in analogue and the picture is krap as well.

    It seems to me that there will be no climb down by Sky or the commercial broadcasters so you either

    a. Wait 10 years or so for the analogue to be turned off when all UK based FTA broadcaster will be obliged to make their channels freely available through satellite

    b. Hope they stop scrambling before then

    c. Pay £150 to Sky per year for infinity + inflation to see your FTA channels

    d. Get Freeview

    e. Watch in analogue and give up with widescreen and quality pictures

    f. If you can't get analogue go back to reading a book as before

    My mother is going for option [d] where she will get the football on ITV2 as well !. So Sky can stuff it. I think Sky have misjudged this one because anybody who pays Sky £150 / year for essentially Sky One is foolish in my view.

    PS Your long list of channels are not encoded except the ones mentioned. Note that Sky says you get them in the package even thou they are free.
     
  8. Starburst

    Starburst
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    Well if I were you I wouldn't let my mother spend any extra money on another STB until the regulator has made a final judgement unless of course you do lose channels and that's your only immediate source of w/s programming.
    It's totally unacceptable to have to subscribe to SKY for access to ITV1, CH4 and Five unless they were part of a must carry rule (similar to cable) which they aren't on satellite.
    On the other hand as a SKY subscriber I would be totally opposed to SKY being forced to cover the costs of the FTV smartcards for non-subscribers.
    If the license fee isn't regarded as a suitable source of revenue to subsidise Dsat viewing and ITV, CH4 and Five refuse to cover the costs of supplying FTV smartcards then the whole digital TV take up in the UK is a farce.

    I got rid of NTL digital a few months back after they jacked up the subscription and SKY isn't really that practical for a multi-room setup so I will be looking into Freeview. The BBC's move to FTA and withdrawl from the FTV system has just accelerated my timetable in regards to purchasing a DTT receiver, something the BBC no doubt considered in their plans:)
     
  9. terryb

    terryb
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    It would be nice to think that the regulator is doing something but I have not seen any evidence of this, only analogue channels need to be made freely available under current rules. Given that Sky have started popping up these screens saying you are to be turned off, I think it's fairly certain. Lastly, I don't want her to start watching it via analogue since then she will say, it's OK, I'll make do. She's decided to get her aerial sorted out as well, best to take the momentum while it's present with old people.
     
  10. Garrett

    Garrett
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    I notice to that you can get ITV over the Sat but not ITV2 which is a subscription channel, yet ITV2 is on Freeview how come?

    I would have thought ITV in what ever form would need all the viewers possible.

    By the way the only peoples who have Feeview have very bad reception at times in fact impossible to watch either blocking or freezing up, when the analogue is perfect yet they are going to switch it off.
     
  11. terryb

    terryb
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    It's always been like that. A cunning Sky plot that gives ITV a discount if they make ITV2 part of the family pack. Soon there will be no ITV, C4 or C5.

    These regulator tussles go on in other countries, noteable Canada. The government shoulld have insisted on a must carry agreement with Sky making all FTA channels free. Remember that on Freeview you have all those other channels that Sky scrambles and makes you pay as well. UK History, FTN etc.

    I think basically Sky actions will have rattled customers and does zouch for getting any of the viewers over to their packages.

    I bought a Freeview box for my mother so at the weekend she will have broken away from Sky - indeed we thought we had done that when we cancelled the subscription several years back.

    Sky 0, Freeview 10.
     
  12. Starburst

    Starburst
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    Oh Please!
    The ITV network had NO intentions of putting ITV2 onto Dsat as they were busy touting their own digital platform to rival SKY and it needed exclusive content.
    SKY made them a generous offer worth around £3 million to put ITV2 onto Dsat and to recoup those costs and probably in agreement with ITV the channel went into a subscription package.

    As for ITV, CH4 and Five well since SKY has NEVER issued FTV cards for themselves or paid for them there is no reason to start now. If the commercial channels want to be accessible on Dsat to the UK population then they should fund the FTV system or go FTA or demand that the license fee covers the costs.
     
  13. terryb

    terryb
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    Well basically there is something wrong - it's there to be seen. Sky out priced the BBC, ITV so they could not get ITV2 onto satellite, with Sky offering a "deal" if ITV2 went in the family pack when it's free air. The problem is the regulars have not as yet got control over "the must take / must make availble" component of Sky. If you read the ITC / Carlton stuff they explain that currently ITV does not have to make it's programming available via satellite on a FTA basis - untill the digital switch off happens.

    It's crazy for anybody to fork out £150 a year on a basic Sky subscription to get Sky One and get back the ITV, C4 and C5 channels - unless you live in the middle of know where.

    I have zero patience for Sky as a company, they hassle viewers, they hike the prices each year and now they act against the 600,000 views who were watching the FTA material on Sky. Clearly, they thought they were going to make a quick buck and ITV, C4 and C5 can't be bothered to argue the case since they have them over a barrel.

    Eventually, the "must carry agreements" will be put into contracts but that won't be till the analogue turn off.
     
  14. Starburst

    Starburst
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    SKY never quoted the BBC a price for a new contract, the BBC never asked for a price for a new contract. They looked at the figures ITV were charged for a full regional postcode allocation with FTV encryption and quoted that figure as the savings to be made whilst ignoring the increased cost of FTA rights and the increased EPG cost for non CA channels.
    Do you actually believe that the ITV network would weaken there own ITV Digtal platform by putting their second channel onto SKY D after refusing to put ITV1 on dsat for years until presure from the advertisers forced their hands?
    ITV2 would not be on dsat if SKY hadn't paid ITV for the channel, end of story.

    No argument that paying SKY for access of the terrestrial channels on dsat is totally unacceptable but RIGHT NOW that is SKY exploiting the current confusion and lack of impetus from the regulators. Once again SKY have never issued FTV cards and therefore are not responsible in anyway for the lack of said cards after the BBC cancelled their funding not can they be held accountable for a change of encryption and refusing to pay for replacing smartcards that are not their responsibility.

    We pay the license fee as we can receive UK broadcast TV, it is not out of the question that around £8million out of this years £2.4 billion (ish) revenue could be used to purchase replacement cards.

    I can't and won't argue with your personal opinion of SKY, it's not one I share but you are entitled:)
     
  15. terryb

    terryb
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    Yeah, well you probably work for Sky !
     
  16. DAUpton

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    This was a well thought out arguement which I agree with, some people seem to want to blame Sky for everything and whilst I believe there are many things Sky can be blamed for, this is not one.

    The BBC issued and paid for FTV cards. Now they have gone FTA on DSat, they have no need to and ITV, CH4 & Five won't pay for them stating they cannot afford to.

    What people fail to realise that ITV, CH4 & Five are commercial companies answerable to shareholders just like Sky and probably cannot justify cost of these cards that will eat into any profit they make.
     
  17. terryb

    terryb
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    Well as a Management Scientist I could tell that his arguments were either well thought out or double talk [double talk on ITV2 and pricing]. The issue is that Sky claim that they have to replace the cards, whilst other broadcasters in Europe run with different sets of cards at different upgrade levels [e.g. Holland].

    The Carlton web site says that they were not prepared to pay the price that Sky was asking for the cards so one can only assume that this was the outcome that Sky wanted. The outcome being that they, Sky would hinder 28.2'E from being a free to air point in the sky. BBC makes it FTA; Sky makes sure that you can't watch the other "FTA" channels from that point in the sky. One can assume that they will now drop their prices to ITV, C4 and C5 to keep their channels encrypted in future years.

    The biggest worry that Sky has is the 28.2'E will become FTA / or different card systems / providers will emerge. The BBC wants 28.2'E as FTA spot in the sky.
     
  18. Starburst

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    I would like to think they were well thought out and I do stand by the "facts" of the ITV2 situation:)
    I would point out that Carlton are the last people you shoud take any notice of when it comes to digital telly.
    They and Granada managed to bring down the DTT subscription platform through incompetence and a glorious ego trip, they also refused to contribute to the running of the FTV smartcard system which was funded by the BBC, CH4 and Five.
    For Carlton to say they are not prepared to pay the price SKY are asking is beyond a joke, they lost all credibility by refusing to throw in even a few thousand pounds into the FTV pot and sponging off the BBC and the comparative minors that are CH4 and Five.

    My views on the BBC's move to FTA along with the political/economic reasoning and direct impact on their commercial rivals and viewers are well documented. When it comes to manipulation of the UK broadcasting system the BBC are the masters, SKY are just amateurs:)
     
  19. terryb

    terryb
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    I would have to disagree with you on that one.
     
  20. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    Ok guys, if you dont mind i have another question and i do hope it wont cause another argument.

    I have just gone back onto the Sky value pack cos my girlfrined said she liked it so is going halves with me, but now i have no ITV2, it is saying it is the wrong card for this set top box, although i got it before, this messege is also showing when i flick through other channels, Sky Box office being another one,( not that i would ever use it mind).

    Whats happened to these channels?
     
  21. Starburst

    Starburst
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    It wasn't an argument is was a friendly discussion but without the jukebox, pints of beer and that blonde on the bar stool who should really wear panties with that skirt:)

    The Value pack is pretty useless to be honest, SKY basically are offering a base package which has very poor content and is vastly over priced for what it incorporates.
    ITV2 is only included in Family/Entertainment and above packages.

    The message "wrong card" would seem to indicate that the card has not been married to that digibox which would be strange since you have taken a subscription out on the card and SKY should know the serial number of the box it was originally issued for. You can watch SKY1 using that smartcard and digibox?
     
  22. Ricky27

    Ricky27
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    It is the Family pack i have got, my mistake, and i can get all the channels apart from ITV2, sky box office etc.
     
  23. Starburst

    Starburst
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    Ok, for some reason SKY have always allowed a smartcard to work in another digibox and allow the decryption of some channels whilst blockign others. Traditionally they were the premium channels (sports and movies) plus the BBC channels.
    I've tried swapping my subscription smartcard from SKY+ to my PACE 2200 and ITV2 does come up with the wrong card message so it does look like ITV2 is also blocked therefore your smartcard is not married to the digibox you are using it on.
    Ring SKY and ask them to marry the existing card to the digibox you are using or you could try to use the automated procedure within the "secret" menu.
    Services-4-0-1-Select and choose New Installation, with a phone line connected the digibox should dial out and authorise the card for that digibox.
     

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