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##STOP PRESS## Panasonic Announce 6 Series Panels!!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by KBDVD, Mar 23, 2003.

  1. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi All, :hiya:

    Right, This is official! :lesson:

    I have today seen with my own eyes a colour "trade show" brochure recently issued by Panasonic's Consumer Division in the UK, which details the roll out dates for "6 Series" panels later THIS year!

    As this was issued by Panasonic's Consumer Division, these panels will be replacements for the current "Silver" 5 series 37", 42", & 50" models.

    I have no idea if similar plans are in place for the Charcoal framed Commercial models but I would think that it is highly likely!

    The first panel to be replaced will be the 42" model, with the 5 series version being discontinued in June and replaced in July with the 6 series model. The panel is exactly the same in appearance as the 5 series model and the stated contrast ratio & brightness figures are also exactly the same. No other info was available.

    Unless these 6 series models are to be simple "re-badges" of the current 5 series models, which would seem to be a bit of a pointless excercise, seeing as how the 5 series panels have only been out about 6 months, it could possibly (hopefully) indicate that it could be "connectivity" that will be improved upon......Multiple Component inputs? / DVI-HDCP?

    My worry is that if connectivity also proves to be identical to the 5 series panels, then this could indicate that it might just be the desire to reduce production costs by using cheaper parts, (to maintain profit margins in the present "tumbling" price arena) that is driving the introduction of 6 series panels so soon after the 5 series models. This could mean "grab those 5 series panels while you can," but as I said, untill such time as the connectivity of these new panels becomes clear, I'll give Panasonic the benefit of the doubt.

    I must stress that the previous two paragraphs are nothing more that my own conjecture on the new panels!

    Next up, in September, the 5 series 37" & 50" models will be discontinued.

    The 37" panel will NOT have a direct 6 series replacement! So anyone who wants a silver 37" Panny in the present style had better get cracking!

    The 50" panel will be replaced with the 6 series model in October. As in the case of the 42" model, appearance, contrast & brightness all remain unchanged & no other details could be gleened from the brochure! (Believe me, I looked very hard!)

    Right, that's the new "6 series Panels" but that's not the end of the story!

    For those of you that are familiar with the Plasma TV's that Panasonic announced at this years CES, (New style panels with built in speakers to the sides of the screen and a built in tuner) I can reveal that these are to be released in 37" (model: 37PA20) & 42" (model: 42PA20) flavours in the UK in August & September respectively!..... I'm afraid I can't remember which way round this was for these two, but it was definately "staggered" over the two months though! There was no mention of any plans for a 50" version of this new TV model.

    I'm afraid that I'm also unable to confirm if the DVI-HDCP connectivity is present on the UK TV model as has been announced for the US.

    I hope that's got you all thinking! I know it has me. I have only just returned my faulty 5 series 50" panel and obtained a full refund for it. So I think I will now resist the temptation to jump on the Fujitsu bandwagon and wait and see what the connectivity of the 42" model is like in July! I LOVE the PQ & appearance of the current Panny panels so if the 6 series also brings improved & updated connectivity then I might just remain a Panny man.....I guess we will all have to wait and see! :smashin:

    PS: Joe Fernand, Come on..... spill the beans!...You must know something! ;) ;) ;)

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  2. nhk

    nhk
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    Just been to John Lewis and they told me that they were at a trade show and expect 6 series in June. I thought it was BS but your view now seems to bear that out. They also mentioned that 6 series may be fanless???

    KBDVD - why have you returned your 5 series 50". I recall you responding positively about the Panny ito fan noise only a few days ago?

    BTW - does the Fujitsu not use Panny glass?
     
  3. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi nhk,

    To reply to your points:

    1. As I think you appreciate, the present 5 series 37" & 42" panels employ "fanless" operation, only the 50" panel has fans that are constantly on. The 6 series brochure listed "fanless operation" on the short "feature" list for the 6 series 37" & 42" panels but no such mention was made for the 50" model so I would suggest that this one will still employ fans as now.

    2. You know from my reply to your post, that the fan noise was not an issue for me with my 50" panel. You must have missed however that I used the term "HAD" in this reply as at the time of replying to your query, I had already returned my panel. If you'd like to know more about my reasons for so doing, take a look here: www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71331.

    3. I'm not sure if the Fujitsu uses 4 or 5 series glass! I know if I were Panasonic I'd want to ensure that my own panels retained an "edge" over the competition even if I were selling them glass for their own units.

    The 4 series glass would still give Fujitsu their 3000:1 contrast ratio, but the newer 5 series glass utilised new phosphers that improved upon the colour renditioning of the 4 series panels.

    Apart from this, appearence wise, I much prefer the plain simple lines of the Panasonic frame to the rounded and uneven dimensions of the new Fujitsu units whose top & bottom frame is wider than it's side frame dimensions. This is just an asthetic thing and I fully appreciate that many people will feel otherwise, but for me, the Panny still looks the best!

    So, if the 6 series addresses the connectivity "shortfall" that exists between their current 5 series models & the opposition, especially the present "omission" of a DVI-HDCP input option, then I will be very tempted to give a 6 series 50" panel an audition in October.

    I will now bide my time, at least untill July when It should be possible to determine the connectivity on offer on the new 42" panel.

    As I said in my post above, I just pray that it is a realisation by Panasonic that this connectivity shortfall exists, and not a desire to cut production costs that has prompted this early introduction of 6 series panels.

    Let's hope that Panasonic can't be "SO" short sighted as to "NOT" include a DVI-HDCP input option on these new panels!........ We shall see.

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  4. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Have Panasonic reacted to 5 series flicker complaints ?
    Anyone know if 6 series will flicker ?
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Fujitsu's use 4 series glass.
    On flicker issue. I was in Stereo Stereo demoing a scaler to them with a D5. We fed it direct prog scan from an unamed player and the flcker was very noticeable. Then when the feed was changed to that from the scaler it disappeared..........interesting.....

    Gordon
     
  6. Ridcully

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    Isn't the series 6 supposed to have imbedded tuners, from what I've read in previous posts
     
  7. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi Gringottsdirect, Gordon F, & Ridcully

    Re: The Flicker issue:

    It's only the 37" & 42" 5 series panels that flicker & this has been attributed to the "Single Scan" technology that they employ, the 5 series 50" panel still uses the older "Duel Scan" technology that was used throughout the entire range up to series 4, and does not suffer from flicker. It remains to be seen if the 6 series 50" panel will still employ "Duel Scan" technology or will also have changed to "Single Scan" with the resultant flicker side effect.

    As to the reason why the decision was taken to employ "Single Scan" on the smaller screens, ie: the supposed benefits obtained by writing the information to the panel in this manner, well I've still to hear a reasonable explanation for this. Unfortunately, the trade off, ie: the flicker, is only too apparent for some people that are sensitive to it.

    Re: Embedded Tuners:

    Yes, these are included in the two new Plasma TV's that I refer to at the bottom of my original post.

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  8. jmack

    jmack
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  9. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    KB: I am aware of only 37 and 42 having flicker....but I am saying that I used a scaler on a D5 and eliminated it. This needs investigating further.....Who knows though, by time I've done it they'll have 6 series out.

    Gordon
     
  10. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi jmack,

    The 6 series panels look exactly the same as the 5 series "silver" panels.

    The Picture you refer to is of the Plasma TV's that are also being released in 37" & 42" sizes & that I refer to at the end of my original post.

    This will be the only way to buy a 37" Panasonic panel by the time that these are released as Panasonic are not releasing a 6 series version of the present 37" 5 series panel, which will be discontinued.

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  11. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    GordonF: Which will also no doubt employ "Single Scan" technology and thus still flicker every bit as much as the 5 series panels. :mad:

    So any investigation you can do will no doubt be as valid then as it is now! :smashin:

    Do you know what the supposed benefit of "Single Scanning" is?

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  12. steve36

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    Price ! The components producing a single scan cost less, so producing a cheaper end product.

    If I was to not be synical, it has been said that single scan allows the product to expend more processing improving colour depth over the series 4.
    It's still a very good screen if you are not sensitive to flicker.

    Steve:(
     
  13. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi steve36,

    Yes, it's difficult not to become cynical. The hard fact remains that all subsequent generations of panels from all manufacturers, not just Panasonic, will have to sell for considerably less than the old models used to, so I suppose that it stands to reason that they will look to ways of reducing the manufacturing costs of the latest screens so as to maximise their profit margins for as long as possible.

    I for one will be very interested to see the full "specs" for the 6 series 50" panel. If there is not "obvious" improvements to the panels connectivity and it just therefore "appears to be" a re-badged 5 series panel, I will probably attempt to pick up one of the last 5 series panels before they all disappear, as this for me, would indicate that the 6 series was being produced for the sole reason of using cheaper parts & manufacturing processes. I suppose, if the 6 series 50" starts to employ "Single Scan" technology, this will be a very good indicator that "things are not looking good!"

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  14. steve36

    steve36
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    KBDVD
    I was waiting for the series 5 as the tuner looked good.
    When it finally arrived most people said that the series 4 was better and the tuner was at best ok.
    By this time it was too late to find a series 4.
    Apparently the solorisation was meant to be reduced by the doubling of colour depth from the 4 to 5.
    I personally think that if the 50" changed to single scan then it would be too obvious. Panasonic have stated that the scan reduction should not be noticible by many people.
    (apart from those of us that are sensitive to flicker !).

    Steve
     
  15. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    KBDVD

    I'm afraid to say that other than a slight hint that there were revised models on the horizon I have no current information on what changes we can expect on the D6 Charcoal displays.

    I think connectivity will be one key change - but maybe not as big a change as some would hope.

    Its not unusual for Panasonic to introduce revised models fairly early on in the life cycle of a product - look at the 50" models; some versions were only available for about three months.

    I dont deal directly with Panasonic Consumer UK so cant tell you much more about the TV models - though these have been available in Japan for a while and do look pretty amazing; assuming you want an integrated tuner, DVD etc.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  16. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    KBDVD

    My man at Panasonic UK is not giving too much away as yet - I'll keep pestering him over the next few days!!!

    The emphasis for Panasonic Consumer is going to switch big time to the Integrated products (speakers, tuners etc on-board) and away from the System models we are currently used to.

    The Business Systems guys will continue to concentrate on the Systems models which I'm guessing will still be the main focus for potential Home Cinema purchasers looking to optimise their systems around high end AV kit.

    As you say anyone wanting a 37" System type display in Charcoal or Silver better think about getting an order in very soon!

    Connectivity and functionality looks like it will be the main thrust of any changes that appear as we move from 5 Series to 6 Series models - I don't expect to see big image quality changes.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  17. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Thanks Joe,

    When you get to hear any further information on the "connectivity" improvements of the 6 Series displays please be sure as to let us know on this thread! ;)

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed for DVI-HDCP!

    Reading between the lines of your last post, do I gather that the Commercial Division do in fact have plans that closely reflect the schedule that I outlined for the Consumer PDP's? You also seem to confirm that both the Consumer (Silver) & Commercial (Charcoal) 37" panels are going to be discontinued? :thumbsdow

    Also, does your contention that the Consumer Division shall be focusing "big time" on the Integrated models in the future, mean that the 6 Series 42" & 50" Silver models may be the last System Type PDP's that they will produce? :(

    Seeing you use the phrases "Integrated" & "System Type" in your post, makes me think that in order to avoid much confusion in the near future, we should all now try to adopt some "Generic Terminology" in order to differentiate between the PDP's we have all become used to, ie: Monitors without built in Tuners & Speakers, and the up & coming "all onboard" units. My suggestion would be "PLASMA PANEL's" for the Monitors & "PLASMA TV's" for the Integrated units. Any other suggestions out there?

    One thing is for certain.... "The times they are a changing" and PDP's look like they are really about to "Come of Age" and become a real "Mass Market product" both in terms of features and price point. Let's just hope that they don't completely lose sight of the requiremets of the "Home Cinema Enthusiast" along the way.

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  18. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    KBDVD

    As you say its getting more complicated and fragmented as the market expands.

    I was trying to use the 'terminology' that Panasonic UK appear to be struggling with when referring to the different 'types' of screen that are soon to be available.

    I think we will have to adopt THREE screen types when discussing screens in future:

    01. Plasma Display - PC monitor with optional Video card or external Video Switcher unit - no TV tuner and optional clip on Speaker system.

    02. PlasmaTV - with external TV Tuner Media Box and optional clip on Speaker system.

    03. Integrated PlasmaTV - with built-in TV tuner and Speaker system.

    I'll keep pushing for more info on the Panasonic 6 Series models.

    The delivery schedule you outlined is pretty much in line with the Commercial divisions release schedule for 2003.

    Both the Charcoal and Silver 37" Plasma Display models will NOT be included in the 6 Series line up - there will be an 'Integrated PlasmaTV' 37" model in Silver; this is expected to be the biggest selling model so far (this has always been the case - every Plasma sales chart I've ever seen has predicted 37" as being the magical model once these devices went mainstream).

    I'm sure there will still be a very active 'specialist' market to cater for the needs of the Home Cinema/Theatre/Multi room market.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  19. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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  20. gringottsdirect

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    Yes.
     
  21. Matravers

    Matravers
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    anyone heard anymore news about the 42pa20.....i am really interested in this product and would love some connectivity info, pictures, links anything........please feed my desire.


    If this turns out to be as good as one would hope it should be excellent.

    Also, any news on whether tuner is analogue or digital as i heard a runour it may be digital.
     
  22. Matravers

    Matravers
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    I have just found this new press release with some additional info on the connectivity of the new panny plasma's: -


    http://www.absoluteplasma.com/news/Press_Releases.asp?section=news&PR=91

    A couple of things.....could someone tell me the difference between EDTV and HDTV, also could someone tell what the difference is with an NTSC tv tuner i know i am probably being stupid.

    One final question, i am assuming that EDTV is not as good as HDTV and yet the end of this article says that the DVI input allows the plasma receive true HDTV pictures, does this mean that this can see HDTV or what.

    I am am a little confused re-reading my reply so good luck and SORRY!!!!
     
  23. RAMiAM

    RAMiAM
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    Daniel,
    From memory, someone please correct me :blush::
    SDTV - Standard Resolution, Interlaced e.g., 480i
    EDTV - Standard Resolution, Progressive e.g., 480p
    HDTV - High Resolution, Interlaced or Progressive e.g., 720p, 1080i

    I think HDTV also has some kind of copy protection built in.

    Hope this helps,
    RAMiAM
     
  24. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi All, :hiya:

    Well this looks like the first concrete info about the new 6 series Plama Panels. (Not the integrated TV's). As is always the case, it raises more questions than answers, but the 6 series does appear to offer some real advances on the 5 series models.

    The answer to the question that I'm most interested in, (will the panels sport DVI-HDCP connections?) is still unclear. The article states that the panels sport an optional "Digital RGB" connection option but as to wether this will be plain DVI, DVI-HDCP, or even HDMI still remains to be seen!

    ..................4,000:1 contrast ratio!!!!!!!

    Here's the link:

    http://www.panasonic.com/pbds/subcat/newsinfo/press_03/03_55.html

    Best Regards,
    KBDVD.
     
  25. Joe Fernand

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    KBDVD

    I'm going to the 6 Series product launch on 6 July 03 so get your questions in now and I'll try and get answers to them all when I'm down - hopefully I'll have a 42" pretty soon after the launch day.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  26. Matravers

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    Joe

    Could you try and get some info on the integrated TV model, and possibly find out if there will be tuner for the 6 series or will it have to be the integrated model.

    The reason i ask is becuase i am a little suspicious that the inetgrated tv model is going to have a contrast ratio of 3000:1 thus using old 5 series panels!!!!!
     
  27. lmccauley

    lmccauley
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    Questions for 6th July:

    1) What performance differences are there between the 5 and 6?
    2) What connectivity differences are there between the 5 and 6?
    3) What price differences are there between the 5 and 6?
    4) When will the 6 be available to deliver.

    ...er, that's it...

    Cheers,
    Liam
     
  28. dinarly

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    Joe,

    I am interested in the 50inch model, specifically:

    1. The projected release date (if not the 6th July).
    2. Interface options – will there be a selection of interface cards? If so, what will they offer?
    3. What’s the news with the cooling? Fan noise levels, etc
    4. Cost relative to the 5 Series?

    Thanks for providing the opportunity to put these questions.

    Regards,
    ASH
     
  29. KBDVD

    KBDVD
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    Hi Joe,

    Like Ash, I'm particularly interested in the 50" 6 series model. (Which I believe is scheduled for an October UK release Ash.)

    1. A DVI-HDCP terminal board option? (Please God!)

    2. Fans still employed for cooling in the 50" model?

    3. Duel Scan still being employed in the 50" model?

    4. RRP of the 50" model?

    5. The "visibility" of the The New Real Black Drive System that produces deeper, richer blacks and the astonishing, 4,000-to-1 contrast ratio?

    6. The "visibility" of the improved Super Real Gamma System that reproduces gradation in steps equivalent to 1,536 shades?

    That should be enough to keep you busy for now! ;)

    Thanks in advance for your help Joe, ....... enjoy the day!

    Best Regards,
    Keith.
     
  30. steve36

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    Joe,
    My 2 questions are based upon the 42" screen.
    When the series 5 was released I was disappointed by the flicker, so am hoping that panasonic have relented and fixed this.
    Also, what is the connectivity of these screens ? I hope that they are finally realising the consumer appeal of these panels and are not just providing BNC's or VGA connections.

    I eagerly await further news.

    Thanks,

    Steve.
     

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