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still only 1 hi def receiver in the UK?

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by forrestgump, Dec 30, 2004.

  1. forrestgump

    forrestgump
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    Just re-reading the satellite mag given away free with last month's HCC, surely there must be a way to get hi def through a plasma without spending £550.00? especially as according to the review the £550.00 doesn't even get you a future proofed product!!! Waste of time waiting for SKY's promised 2006 launch of high def as they will be charging the earth and will be biassing the service towards sports and PPV, the BBC will waste £1000's of license payers money on a HD service that will probably never come to fruition until 2007/2008 by which time plasma and lcd tv's will have built in HD receiver's anyway.
    The people who pay silly money to kick start the HD show are the same who no doubt paid £600-800 for their firsdt dvd player from the USA (like me, what a fool!), why should we have to do this, PACE, get moving and launch your HD/PVR rceeiver now, steal a march on the competition
     
  2. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Pace have already announced a receiver for Euro1080/HD1 haven't they?

    I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy an MPEG2 only receiver for European HD unless they are prepared to replace it quite soon - and have a real need (or desire!) for HD NOW!

    The chances are any receiver purchased now will not be compatible with a large proportion of future HD broadcasts (DVB-S2 modulation and MPEG4 / VC1 encoding rather than DVB-S and MPEG2) - even if you ignore the not-insignificant issues of conditional access (Sky will no doubt limit reception to their receivers only)

    As for LCDs and Plasmas containing receivers in 2007/8 - I very much doubt it. We've had DVB-T in the UK for more than 6 years now, and still very few plasmas come with DVB-T receivers in them. I think the likelihood of LCDs and plasmas having Sky (likely to be the first broadcast HD source in the UK) receivers integrated into them is quite low (only LG have ever marketed a Sky integrated receiver in the UK for SD - and it didn't last long).

    I suspect that initially HDMI interconnects will be important - as HD sources are likely to be HD-DVD or BluRay and Sky HD to begin with - both of which will be HDMI rather than integrated?

    The likelihood of OTA (terrestrial) HD by 2007/8 is very low in the UK - there isn't space unless existing Freeview broadcasts are reduced.
     
  3. Master Rahl

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    Simulcast. You broadcast the HD signal alongside the PAL one, using the same frequency.
     
  4. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Alongside ? Using the same frequency ? What are you smoking ? :zonked:
     
  5. Master Rahl

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  6. Starburst

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    You can certainly broadcast a digital SD channel in the same datastream as a HD channel but you would still need enough bandwidth to achieve this.
    For satellite distribution in the UK it's very likely that a single transponder will carry a mixture of HD and SD channels depending upon the final codec and bitrates required so in essence you could be simulcasting a single channel on the same frequency with the STB altering it's tuning parameters to isolate the required datastream.

    The current UK DTT broadcasting system simply does not have the bandwidth to broadcast even a single HD channel unless they close down 4-6 SD channels so HD is
    a non-started without a major increase in capacity.
     
  7. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Sorry - you are mistaken. You can't broadcast digital and analogue on the same frequency in the same area whether you use ATSC 8-VSB (as used in the US, Canada and Korea) or DVB-T COFDM (as used in Europe and Australia) or ISDB OFDM (as used in Japan)...

    The term Simulcast as used in the US and UK (where we simulcast our SD analogue services in SD on digital terrestrial) doesn't mean simultaneously broadcasting on the same frequency, it means broadcasting the same services on both digital and analogue (whether SD or HD) - but the digital service is on a different radio frequency to the analogue one in a given area.

    What you CAN do with DTV is broadcast the digital signal on frequencies that are used by analogue transmissions in other areas quite close-by, and that couldn't be used for analogue transmissions in the same area. This is because digital uses lower transmission powers than analogue (the UK London analogue TV transmissions are at 1MW, the digital TV stuff is at 100kW) and appears more like noise than a regular TV signal when it does occasionally interfere.

    We have already, in the UK, utilised the spectrum that is available for digital TV, with our DVB-T terrestrial digital standard filling the "taboo" channel gaps with 6 multiplexes of digital TV (equivalent to 6 ATSC digital channels) providing approx 28 video services (though these are subdivided into more channels on a time-exclusive basis) Our digital TV equivalent to the US ATSC HD system is already deployed for multiple standard definition services instead, and includes simulcasts of all 5 main terrestrial analogue networks - though they are 16:9 on digital (BBC One, BBC Two, BBC Three, Channel 4 or S4C in Wales, and five)

    To increase the number of digital multiplexes - say to add HD services OTA in the UK - we would either have to remove SD services from the existing DVB-T system, or wait for analogue switch-off to free up more frequencies for digital TV (though at the moment the UK government hope to sell them off)
     
  8. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    You are misreading this Master Rahl. The statement you quote means that the digital signals are broadcast in the same portion of the RF spectrum as analogue TV - in the US UHF and VHF, in the UK Band IV and V UHF.

    In other words you don't require radically different aerials optimised for different frequencies to receive digital TV - a decent aerial (antenna in US English) optimised for UHF (and in the US VHF) transmissions will work with digital TV as well.

    The statement DOESN'T mean that the digital and analogue signals are broadcast on the same frequency in a given region... You have misread that statement (though it could have been stated less ambigouslys) and inferred something that isn't the case.


    * (In the UK where we have UHF only analogue TV, our 4 channel UHF Network plan - ignoring Channel Five/five which launched later in 1997 - is based around BBC One, Two and ITV, C4/S4C occupying RF channels quite close together within the UHF Bands IV and V. Thus aerials in these regions are often more tightly optimised for a smaller band of frequencies than for the whole band - you buy an aerial for your region. When Digital TV was introduced some digital multiplexes were further away from the analogue services, so some people needed new aerials with a wider bandwidth for decent digital TV reception)
     
  9. Master Rahl

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    So we get HD and you get BBC? Heh.
     
  10. bartp

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    I like your discussion guys, but in my opinion we in the UK will be still behind US whatever signal they feed us with. Btw. anyone heared about second pay tv platform in UK? I've heared that sony will be involved in that? For now we have to put up with Sky and HD1 if hungry the pixels.

    Bart
     
  11. SLIM

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    guys look @ this click here

    I no its for the usa but was told on the phone by the HDtv provider that i should beable to get it here.

    Ps the link is not the provider its just a site that i found a hdtv set top box that i was looking @ getting
     
  12. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    The Dish 811 isn't cheap (around $700) ; also I believe Echostar will be moving to 8PSK mode (from qpsk) for some of this HD programming .
    This requires a higher quality signal and AFAIK no 8PSK tests have even been carried out yet on European satellites.
    Our future mode will probably also eventually be DVB-S2 - but there are at least 3 incompatible modes for it. Thus yet another standardisation issue is waiting in the wings :-(

    Chris Muriel, Manchester.
     
  13. CKNA

    CKNA
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    Actually Dish 811 MSRP is $399 and you can get it cheaper. It has HD OTA tuner built in and recieves 8psk. All Echostar HD channels are broadcast using 8psk since early 2004.
     
  14. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    The Beeb demoed 8PSK recently I believe, via an Astra satellite. Not sure if Astra 1 or 2 orbital slot.

    Think they used it to carry MPEG4 HD material.

    AIUI most European satellites currently in use for DVB-S direct to home broadcasts aren't going to have a problem with DVB-S2.
     
  15. Stephen Neal

    Stephen Neal
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    Yes - wasn't it DirecTV who announced a move to MPEG4 (and presumably 8PSK) for their HD stuff at CES? I thought another US DBS provider had already gone to 8PSK - hasn't this caused problems for people who bought satellite receivers with ATSC 8VSB transcoded outputs? (AIUI they worked with QPSK but not 8PSK?) OR is it more accurate to say they worked with QPSK receivers but don't work with the new 8PSK ones?
     
  16. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
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    At least one (USA) STB had an add-on module to enable 8PSK.
    I assume it replaces the existing tuner (qpsk demodulator).
    Apologies if I got the price wrong earlier - I must have been looking at a package (STB + dish/lnb and installation perhaps).
    I never spotted the Beeb's tests - wouldn't have been able to receive them anyway I guess with the tuners available to me.

    Chris Muriel, Manchester.
     
  17. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    What use would it be to you here ? It's designed to pick up American satellites :confused:
     
  18. Howard Pitfield

    Howard Pitfield
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    They are testing MPEG-4 with planned introduction from June 2005. They say they have plaved a pre-order of 50,000 MPEG-4 receivers with cost half of current box. Article is in Feb edition of What Satellite and Digital TV (page31). Sounds good!

    H
     
  19. xxalxx

    xxalxx
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    eh ??

    anyone have any more info on that ??

    Al
     

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