Still early days for 4K?

Marv

Member
One more point (sorry!) - for me I never mind paying £25-30 for the loaded Arrow / Second Sight / SC releases, whether on BR or 4K, because I love the extra physical stuff like booklets etc and I’m very happy to do so. But I just can’t bring myself to pay £25 for a 4K title that’s a standard release and has a £10 increase on the BR’s price just because it’s in 4K.

This is my feeling too, one the reason's I haven't bought Speed UHD. I bought Last Action Hero but that has Deleted scenes and a commentary which are brand new to the release so I didn't mind paying more for that.
But Speed offers nothing new extra's wise.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
One more point (sorry!) - for me I never mind paying £25-30 for the loaded Arrow / Second Sight / SC releases, whether on BR or 4K, because I love the extra physical stuff like booklets etc and I’m very happy to do so. But I just can’t bring myself to pay £25 for a 4K title that’s a standard release and has a £10 increase on the BR’s price just because it’s in 4K.


Isn't it supposed to be a film as opposed to a nadge, booklet or poster you are paying for? You can go nuy such items for less without the film. You are buying the film and not the additional stuff that will probably never be looked at, used or displayed by those buying it.

You are paying for what you hope will be a better remaster of that particular film that will be portrayed as close as you can get it to how it was initially seen in cinemas. You've only to look at the recent 4K release of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly to recongnise just how much demand there is for better quality video of older films.

I actually resent having to pay more just because the film may have been packaged with a booklet or a poster. The poster isnt even a copy of the artwork used originally.

If you want posters then go buy a poster.
 
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GrazzaB

Distinguished Member
@dante01 I do take your point and agree there should be options, but for me the issue is that some companies manage to bring out lavish sets for the same price (or very nearly) as a standard release from someone else. Case in point is the True Romance 4K limited edition from Arrow, which includes cards, a book and poster etc in premium packaging, and at Amazon is £3 more than the standard new 4K release from other studios. It’s that £10 hike in price for no limited edition treatment that I can’t justify price wise.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
One more point (sorry!) - for me I never mind paying £25-30 for the loaded Arrow / Second Sight / SC releases, whether on BR or 4K, because I love the extra physical stuff like booklets etc and I’m very happy to do so. But I just can’t bring myself to pay £25 for a 4K title that’s a standard release and has a £10 increase on the BR’s price just because it’s in 4K.
Agreed I never pay that kind of money for a standard release but I've got no problem waiting for the prices to drop. I do only buy 4K if it's a classic with lots of rewatch value or if it's too cheap to refuse!
Yes there are but how many of them will actually buy a 4K disc? Loads of my friends had a PS4 but aside from the incredibly rare massive high profile stuff like the Christopher Nolan Batman films for instance, they never bought a disc.
I also agree but it doesn't take many people buying to create a niche that's still well worth servicing, many billions still spent on it. Over half the market is DVD, I can't see them wanting 4K or 8K anything.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
@dante01 I do take your point and agree there should be options, but for me the issue is that some companies manage to bring out lavish sets for the same price (or very nearly) as a standard release from someone else. Case in point is the True Romance 4K limited edition from Arrow, which includes cards, a book and poster etc in premium packaging, and at Amazon is £3 more than the standard new 4K release from other studios. It’s that £10 hike in price for no limited edition treatment that I can’t justify price wise.
The nice thing is different versions are offered, from budget to collectors versions. That's something you don't get with digital. I'm not a collector but it's nice for those that are to get all the cool stuff to keep. Actually that's another good reason for physical to continue, collectors pay a lot of money for that stuff. I'm sure it's very profitable.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Something becoming collectable isn't anything you can predict. The fact is that you get the aditional stuff you get packaged with the "Limited Edition" versions to try emulate why certain items used to become collectable of their own accord, rare or indeed caluable. This doesn't always end well though if you try create it as opposed to the material itself creating the desirability.

If you buy something you like and it later becomes rare or collectable then great, but don't expect everything that is being initially marketed in this way to automatically become a collectors item. There's also the fact that even if the item does become rare and valuable, do you then sell it leaving you without a copy of it? You weren't obviously that interested in it to begin with if you do and probably have a large stock of such items that will never pay for themselves.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
Something becoming collectable isn't anything you can predict. THe fact is that you get the stiff you get packaged with the "Lo,oted Edition" versions to try emulate why certain items used to become collectable, rare or indeed caluable. This doesn't always end well though if you try create it as opposed to the material itself creating the desirability.

If you buy something you like and it later becomes rare or collectable then great, but don't expect everything that is being initially marketed in this way to automatically become a collectors item. There's also the fact that even if the item does become rare and valiable, do you then sell it leaving you without a copy of it? You weren't obviously that interested in it to begin with if you do and probably have a large stock of such items that will never pay for themselves.
I think you're confusing collecting for value with collecting because you want to own it or for completion. I wouldn't call those buying for future value collectors, they're more like speculators. It's obviously not for you or me either but I do understand why others might like to acquire discs with extras.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
As I said though, it isn't as though the posters by Arrow are duplicates of the original artwork. Just seems a little strange as to what the appeal is to those who are trying to recapture the feelings those titles once evoked? Some of the stuff is rather cheesy.

I'm a graphic designer (or was) so if I churn out my interprtations of the film is this therefore desirable?

You'd said it yourself about the little you are paying extra for this so they aren't spending a lot to have it produced. It has just become a case of stick this in and call it a limited edition.


Mabe it is me, but some of the stuff looks forced, as though they are expected to include something and who cares what as long as there is something?
 
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Bottlebrush

Active Member
As I said though, it isn't as though the posters by Arrow are duplicates of the original artwork. Just seems a little strange as to what the appeal is to those who are trying to recapture the feelings those titles once evoked? Some of the stugg is rather cheesy.

I'm a graphic designer (or was) so if I churn out my interprtations of the film is this therefore desirable?

You'd said it yourself about the little you are paying extra for this so they aren't spending a lot to have it produced. It has just vecome a case of stick y=this in and call it a limited edition.
That's exactly it, it's referred to as "value added" an excuse to charge more. In this case some people enjoy owning it, each to their own. I'd say they are nicer than the disc only cheap versions but I couldn't justify the extra cost. That said I'm also happy buying blu-rays second hand if they are what I consider less favourite films. Iron Man for £1 on blu-ray or The Fifth Element in 4K for £9.99, that's my kind of shopping but I have to stretch the budget to quite a few other interests. I picked up Wharfdale Evo 4.2 speakers for £350, a Denon X2700H for £529 and a PB1000 sub for £379 all on clearance.
 

Marv

Member
@dante01 I do take your point and agree there should be options, but for me the issue is that some companies manage to bring out lavish sets for the same price (or very nearly) as a standard release from someone else. Case in point is the True Romance 4K limited edition from Arrow, which includes cards, a book and poster etc in premium packaging, and at Amazon is £3 more than the standard new 4K release from other studios. It’s that £10 hike in price for no limited edition treatment that I can’t justify price wise.

And company's like Arrow and SS are many times footing the bill themselves for the restoration on top of paying to license the film and also preserving the film for the future.

Whereas a billion dollar Studios like Warmers, Disney and Universal have released the same film on every format for the last 30 years and made millions from it yet still charge top dollar.
 

ontwofronts

Active Member
We’re at the midway point, and I don’t expect we’ll see a new physical format after this. 4K is niche, Blu Ray never penetrated the same way DVD did, DVD will be the high tide mark for physical film media.

it’s possible we’ll get an 8K format but I suspect that broadband will be sufficiently speedy by then to give everything that we need.

In fairness when streaming matches the quality of 4K Blu Ray then the need for physical media will be gone largely. The only benefit will being able to own a copy of something that isn’t available to stream.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
We’re at the midway point, and I don’t expect we’ll see a new physical format after this. 4K is niche, Blu Ray never penetrated the same way DVD did, DVD will be the high tide mark for physical film media.

it’s possible we’ll get an 8K format but I suspect that broadband will be sufficiently speedy by then to give everything that we need.

In fairness when streaming matches the quality of 4K Blu Ray then the need for physical media will be gone largely. The only benefit will being able to own a copy of something that isn’t available to stream.
Yes, it always amazes me the popularity of DVD, it's cheap but the quality is terrible. I suspect there are a lot of people that need a trip to Specsavers! I think the 8K streaming will be a case of how good and/or cheap fast internet access is. As I understand it a lot of the US still has data caps, which limits streaming or costs a significant amount.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
We’re at the midway point, and I don’t expect we’ll see a new physical format after this. 4K is niche, Blu Ray never penetrated the same way DVD did, DVD will be the high tide mark for physical film media.

it’s possible we’ll get an 8K format but I suspect that broadband will be sufficiently speedy by then to give everything that we need.

In fairness when streaming matches the quality of 4K Blu Ray then the need for physical media will be gone largely. The only benefit will being able to own a copy of something that isn’t available to stream.


I think one of the major drawbacks associated with streaming is the audio as opposed to the video quality. The current 4K UHD video quality is actually quite good and more than acceptable for many, but there's no HD formatted audio in association with any of the streaming services. The audio is again a niche aspect of things and most consumers have no comprehension of the differences between SD and HD formatted audio.

There's also the issue of content ownership. While you can buy HD video online and download it, you cannot buy 4K UHD and download the title. It remains on the server and is technically never yours to own.
 

Marv

Member
Dvd the was excellent for its time. Widescreen, full 5.1 sound and took up less space on a shelf than vhs and no need to rewind for fast forward.
If you could use a cd player you could operate with a dvd player.

With blu ray things became slighty more complicated for the layman with HDMI and Loosless audio. Then with the 4K the step-up in PQ from BD was not as big as with dvd and you needed an ever bigger tv to get the benefits and also a new Amp if you wanted to run a HDR/ DV signal through it.

Try explaining to someone with no clue or interest how HDR/DV benefit a film or how scanning a 35mm camera negative in 4K is better than what they already have.
They will just be lost, for many people they just want to watch the film. They care not if its 4K or not or uncut or has Dolby atmos.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
Dvd the was excellent for its time. Widescreen, full 5.1 sound and took up less space on a shelf than vhs and no need to rewind for fast forward.
If you could use a cd player you could operate with a dvd player.

With blu ray things became slighty more complicated for the layman with HDMI and Loosless audio. Then with the 4K the step-up in PQ from BD was not as big as with dvd and you needed an ever bigger tv to get the benefits and also a new Amp if you wanted to run a HDR/ DV signal through it.

Try explaining to someone with no clue or interest how HDR/DV benefit a film or how scanning a 35mm camera negative in 4K is better than what they already have.
They will just be lost, for many people they just want to watch the film. They care not if its 4K or not or uncut or has Dolby atmos.
Sounds like a lot of people i know! Since I started upgrading the sound improvement has been huge and only going to improve as I add more speakers and UHD playback. I'm expecting a nice step up from 46" 1080p to 65" OLED. The biggest issue is I think most consumers haven't experienced better and therefore don't know any better.
 

Marv

Member
I dont know many people who watch old films either which is another reason people are happy to just stream films.

For example the conversation at work:

Colleague: "I watched Dead Pool 2 last night"
Me: "I watched The Fog"
Colleague: "Who's in that"
Me: "Jamie Lee Curtis" (trying to pick an actor who they will have hopefully heard off from the cast)
Colleague: Not seen that. Is it old?
Me: "1980, directed by John Carpenter who directed Halloween, The Thing, Big Trouble in Little China"

Blank face from colleague.
 

lgans316

Distinguished Member
LD and DVDs used to have full bandwidth audio despite bit being lossy. We enter law of diminishing returns with sound way sooner than video.
 

BMox81

Distinguished Member
Lol, these threads always start out with the best of intentions but they always end up back to physical vs digital. :laugh:

Buy what you want on whatever format and be happy. All there is to it.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
I dont know many people who watch old films either which is another reason people are happy to just stream films.

For example the conversation at work:

Colleague: "I watched Dead Pool 2 last night"
Me: "I watched The Fog"
Colleague: "Who's in that"
Me: "Jamie Lee Curtis" (trying to pick an actor who they will have hopefully heard off from the cast)
Colleague: Not seen that. Is it old?
Me: "1980, directed by John Carpenter who directed Halloween, The Thing, Big Trouble in Little China"

Blank face from colleague.
Heathens! The nice thing is when you introduce them to a classic and they find a new favourite. I was amazed recently when a colleague hadn't seen Heat.
 

Bottlebrush

Active Member
Lol, these threads always start out with the best of intentions but they always end up back to physical vs digital. :laugh:

Buy what you want on whatever format and be happy. All there is to it.
You're right and your reply is partly what makes think they will coexist and physical won't disappear. Different strokes for different folks 😉
 

Lateralusuk

Active Member
DVDs needs to be phased out in my opinion. Why have a nice big 4k or even 1080p TV if you are going to only watch dvds on it. It's worse in the UK too because Dvds still suffer from PAL speedup which is now even more noticeable when you go back to watching dvds after watching a few blu rays.
Blu rays need to become the new dvd in terms of price point and 4K discs need to be £20 or less (most 4Ks that have been out for a while are well below this anyway)
At the end of the day streaming is convenient but I feel there will still always be a place for physical media in the same way watching movies at home in general is convenient but the cinema still thrives. I doubt there will be much of a rush for moving to a new format such as 8K but there is still plenty of life left in 4k UHD
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
most 4Ks that have been out for a while are well below this anyway


Most new discs retail for £20 to £25. The older titles rereleased on 4K tend to sell for about £20 while newer titles sell for a bit more. The price takes forever to drop, but you do get some titles included within 3 for £30 or simlilar offers. These titles tend to be those that aren't selling well though.

Not too sure where you are getting the impression that UHD disc prices drop drastically or that there are a glut of them for under £20?


How long is it since the Martian was launched on 4K disc? It still has a price of £20 to £26:
Amazon product
 
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Bottlebrush

Active Member
Most new discs retail for £20 to £25. The older titles rereleased on 4K tend to sell for about £20 while newer titles sell for a bit more. The price takes forever to drop, but you do get some titles included within 3 for £30 or simlilar offers. These titles tend to be those that aren't selling well though.

Not too sure where you are getting the impression that UHD disc prices drop drastically or that there are a glut of them for under £20?


How long is it since the Martian was launched on 4K disc? It still has a price of £20 to £26:
Amazon product
You're right the prices are too high. I'd say £15 for 4K £10 for blu-ray and get rid of DVD. You'd see sales rise significantly I think. Price is always the biggest factor slowing adoption rate if it's too high.
 

lgans316

Distinguished Member
Most new discs retail for £20 to £25. The older titles rereleased on 4K tend to sell for about £20 while newer titles sell for a bit more. The price takes forever to drop, but you do get some titles included within 3 for £30 or simlilar offers. These titles tend to be those that aren't selling well though.

Not too sure where you are getting the impression that UHD disc prices drop drastically or that there are a glut of them for under £20?


How long is it since the Martian was launched on 4K disc? It still has a price of £20 to £26:
Amazon product

It has been a part of the 4 pack for £14.99 or £19.99. Also many copies at our classifieds sold for under £10.
 

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