Stewart samples and comparisons

howieeb

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For anyone who's interested, I finally got some Stewart screen samples yesterday and spent much of last night comparing them with other samples from Beamax, Carada, and diy paint samples. Warning, I have no measuring tools or knowledge when it comes to doing this properly!

First of all, the Studiotek material looks great. I told myself i'd never spend this kind of money on a white screen (it's just white! how hard can that be?) but now have doubts. If I had no plans to move in next 10 years and had a nice caved room, this would in the post right now. Brightness wise it is clearly and rather considerably brighter than the Beamax 1.5 material and the Carada BW. Infact, the Beamax material next to it looks like grey screen material. If the 1.3 gain reading for Studiotek is accurate - which apparently it is - then the other materials i've 'tested' are certainly less. Oddly enough, my current diy screen - cheapo primer - comes closest to the Studiotek in brightness. I also noticed the material surface vanishes completely with the Studiotek. It's hard to explain how this differs from the other samples - I can't see the material with these either - but when side by side with the Studiotek I don't get the sensation that there is no surface being projected on (possibly due to the extra gain?). All in all, very nice (which it should be for the price!).

Now for the initial reason I ordered the samples - Firehawk G3. I've wanted to see this stuff for years as it's always seemed like the holy grail of screen materials - better blacks, contrast, and still white whites. Later, after visiting this and other forums, I learned there were trade-offs (but still secretly wanted one). After spending ~ 4 hours with just this material (OCD much!) i'm so completely torn. The improvement in black levels and contrast with my HD1 - in a half caved room (black walls and grey ceiling) - is staggering. On many scenes it's like having an A4 sized 3d window cut into the screen. The brightness drops off considerably when moving to the right or left of the sofa, but as all viewing is done on the sofa this isn't an issue. All good so far.

But it's a grey screen, so the colours/whites must by dingy? Which compared to the other white screen samples, to varying degrees, is true. Not as much as with other grey materials/paints i've tried (both screen goos, BW, Carada and Beamax HC options, Grayhawk RS etc), but the colours aren't as vibrant. This particularly shows up next to the Studiotek but doesn't differ much, for example, from the Beamax 1.5 material. In short, this is the first grey screen that I could happily live with in terms of colours and whites. Hotspotting may be an issue, but it's hard to tell with an A4 sample. What is an issue - and now we get to the trade-off - is the visibile screen surface. It sparkles! I'll be watching a stunning 3d like scene, the camera will pan back revealing a blue sky, and suddenly it doesn't look quite right - almost like a heat haze - and the image flattens on a portion of the material. It may only last for a second or two, but it's there. I suspect this won't be as much an issue on a properly tensioned screen and without other materials near by for direct comparison, or even in 90% of movie scenes, but it is a negative, and a negative from a screen that costs over 2k is hard to stomache! Poo. Still, the positives are significant enough to make this a serious contender. I doubt whether a projector upgrade, given room condtions etc, would yield as positive results for as much of the time.

The Grayhawk RS material I don't see the point of. Black levels aren't much improved (the Firehawk slays it in this regard) and the colours/white levels dingy. I'd rather have a cheap white screen or BW diy.

Screen Goo i'm not at all impressed with. I've tried every flavour and could only live with the plain white (which is poor value for £200).

Black Widow is the second best grey solution i've seen, but for my projector/room combo it doesn't work for me. The colours take too much of a hit and there's a loss of brightness/pop. I also noticed the screen surface with BW, but that's likely to do with my poor spraying efforts. It's not really fair to compare BW to a Firehawk giving the HUGE difference in cost, but the black levels and contrast with the Firehawk are considerably better, the whites whiter and the colours more vibrant. Then again, BW doesn't lose all it's brightness when you move 1 meter to the right/left :)

So after two years of looking for the perfect screen i'm torn between a diy fixed white screen (still need to try that laminate Mech recommends) and a Firehawk G3. Beamax and Carada fixed screens are also possibilities and look great for the price, but don't seem to be better (to my eyes anyways) than a carefully constructed diy effort. A Studiotek screen would be lovely, but 2k+ for a white screen!? It just seems wrong :)
 
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If you see the sparklies on a small sample, they'll almost certainly be more noticeable on a big screen. I used my HD1 with a Firehawk SST which is very similar to the G3. Now I use a matt white screen in my targetedly light controlled living room.
 
Did you notice the sheen much with your SST?
 
The visibility of screen structure is a major issue that lots of folk forget about. I'd suggest that you will find it really, really annoying on a full size screen. The only solution is to sit further away...or get a different material (studiotek130).
 
The visibility of screen structure is a major issue that lots of folk forget about. I'd suggest that you will find it really, really annoying on a full size screen. The only solution is to sit further away...or get a different material (studiotek130).

Gordon, Hi

Which screens do you dislike for screen structure ?
 
I don't particularily dislike any. It's more the case that folk don't realise that screen surfaces "have" a structure...and you can see it if you sit too close. Firehawk is a classic. It's essentially a high gain screen (ie course surface) on a grey background....so you see the courseness quite readily if you are not careful. I'd say that many installations I've been at with high contrast grey materials or 1.5 and above gain screens have had noticeable screen surfaces at the prime viewing position...and when you see that course sheen on a bright area it really pulls you out of the scene.

I'm just saying that it's something to consider when choosing your material
 

warbie,


I went through the same long search in deciding my screen material. I've viewed the Firehawk material (including G3 version) many times in projection set ups. It often looks absolutely superb and it's ability to reject ambient light is amazing. I'd considered going with the Firehawk material, but two big issues stopped me:

1. Visible screen structure. Too often I would become aware of the gritty/sparkly sheen you have noticed and that really takes me out of the viewing experience.

2. HotSpotting. This is something that I'm pretty sensitive to and tends to bother me. I can really see the light drop off on the Firehawk as I move off-axis, to almost shocking degrees sometimes. I'll be using a 124" wide screen. A local AV shop has a 124" wide Firehawk scope screen. Unfortunately I found the hotspotting very problematic. From the center seat all looked pretty good. But as a moved off-axis from the centre seat the image clearly developed uneven illumination. The side of the screen closest to me stayed bright and the light dropped off, the screen darkening, toward the opposite side of the screen. And the more off-axis I moved the darker the whole screen image became, to an unacceptable degree. You can see this even by just looking at the Firehawk screen sample in normal light. Look at it right in front of you, then move around it and watch how dark it gets as you move off axis.

I'm big on wanting everyone in the room to see the same image quality, including if I end up in the off-axis seats when I have viewing company. I'd be quite frustrated knowing I'm seeing a substandard image compared to some seats. So the Firehawk was out of the running for me.

The same issues arose when I bought a Da Lite High Power screen to test out - much beloved by many AVSforum members. It looked impressive so long as I sat in the right place, but image quality changed drastically off-axis.

I have experience with the Carada Brilliant White material and it is fantastic: no hotspotting, looks gorgeously free of artifacts. However in my case, since I'm going with a very large screen I wanted every bit of gain I could get, without added artifacts.

So I ordered bigger samples of the Stewart Studiotek ST-130 1.3 gain material, as well as Firehawk material, to compare in my home with the HP and Carada screen materials.

What I found was the Studiotek material did indeed have visibly higher gain than the Carada Brilliant White material. It also did not seem to have visible screen structure from my seating distance and it had consistent performance off-axis (not quite as perfect as the Carada material, but good enough, so that it won't be an issue).

There was also a sort of "something extra" in the Stewart Studiotek material to my eyes, compared to the Carada Brilliant White material. Colors looked a bit more rich and vibrant, more detail was brought out in the images, and there was something slightly more "real" and palpable about the image on the Studiotek material. So I'm sold on the Studiotek, even though like you I wasn't planning on spending that much "just for a white screen."

Interestingly the direct comparison to the Firehawk material didn't yield the results I expected. I expected the Firehawk material to retain, or enhance, contrast over the Studiotek material. But in a number of direct comparisons the sense of contrast on the Studiotek looked as good or better than the Firehawk. For instance, I had an image of a chain link fence, partially in shadow, against a bright sky. Exactly the type of intra-scene contrast I'd have expected the Firehawk to excel at. Yet the contrast of the chain links, the shadowing, the contrast against the background sky actually looked a bit more vivid on the Studiotek than the Firehawk.

Stewart Filmscreen themselves always recommend the Studiotek over the Firehawk UNLESS you have a room that has ambient light issues or light decor.
Having seen the materials in action I understand why. I really think that if you have good lighting control the Studiotek is the way to go, especially in this day when most projectors have much better black levels than in days past.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

Rich H

(But if you want a white screen and don't want to spend the bucks for the Studiotek the Carada BW material is a fantastic bargain, even outperforming the Studiotek slightly in some respects).
 
^^^ Whoops, looks like I entered this thread after Rigamortis had set in. :(
 
Cheers for the impressions, Rich - they helped me narrow things down a bit and pushed the G3 material out of the running. The sheen bugs me on a tiny sample and I imagine it'll only be more obvious on a big screen. The other negatives just made the decision easier. I'd love to go for the Studiotek like you have, but really cant afford it at the moment (plus 2.5k towards a better a projector a year or two down the line seems like more fun :)). My next place will have a Studiotek screen though.

The current plan is to get the biggest piece of Wilsonart laminate that will fit in my room and try and come up with some cheapo 4-way masking. Nothing fancy as my poor diy skills exclude anything further than velvet and velcro!
 
warbie,

Any reason you are not going with Carada? They make a fantastic, slick, professional looking product for one of the best prices around. And simply dealing with their superb customer service makes the decision feel worthwhile.

Rich
 
I was all set to order a Carada with the masking system untill the exchange rate went tits up - now it's out of my budget. I may still get a carada screen and add some diy masking, but am worried i'll either damage the screen, frame, or it'll look rubbish. The Wilsonart laminate is meant to be a good alternative - i'll post impressions :)
 
The Carada measurements do show very nice off axis performance. I wish I had bought a Steward simply for the gain. Then again I might be unlucky ont he buld and I should just get another !
 
I'm still tempted to splash out on a stewart screen - I just wish they were a grand cheaper!

My experiments with Wilsonart haven't gone well at all. The drop off is almost as bad as with the Firehawk samples and the screen surface is clearly visible in bright scenes - it has a sparkly sheen. I'm half tempted to pick up a cheap Beamax fixed screen as the pulldown I got from them years ago has done sterling work, but I really want something with a little gain. I'd be surprised if their 1.5 material was actually above 1.

Picking a screen is harder than deciding on a projector!
 
I'm still tempted to splash out on a stewart screen - I just wish they were a grand cheaper!

My experiments with Wilsonart haven't gone well at all. The drop off is almost as bad as with the Firehawk samples and the screen surface is clearly visible in bright scenes - it has a sparkly sheen. I'm half tempted to pick up a cheap Beamax fixed screen as the pulldown I got from them years ago has done sterling work, but I really want something with a little gain. I'd be surprised if their 1.5 material was actually above 1.

Picking a screen is harder than deciding on a projector!

I'm very pleased with my home made masking system :smashin:

quite a long thread but some other solutions and my final adjsutable finished version
 
I'm very pleased with my home made masking system :smashin:

quite a long thread but some other solutions and my final adjsutable finished version

I've visited your masking thread a few times - very cool work. Unfortunately i'm completely diy challenged and can't settle on a screen size for longer than 2 weeks.

My current want is one of these:

Elite Screens | Elite Osprey Screens

.. but that will likely change in a few weeks.
 
I'm still tempted to splash out on a stewart screen - I just wish they were a grand cheaper!

My experiments with Wilsonart haven't gone well at all. The drop off is almost as bad as with the Firehawk samples and the screen surface is clearly visible in bright scenes - it has a sparkly sheen. I'm half tempted to pick up a cheap Beamax fixed screen as the pulldown I got from them years ago has done sterling work, but I really want something with a little gain. I'd be surprised if their 1.5 material was actually above 1.

Picking a screen is harder than deciding on a projector!

Interesting discussion here.

Choose your screen with care and you may find that it lasts you for a few projector upgrades over the years (unless you change screen size, aspect ratio or room decor)

I also went thru some Stewart samples to see what the fuss was about with Firehawk. I had a matt white DRH fixed frame screen. This lasted me a few years and as i had a light coloured room i wanted to get better blacks without sacrificing colour.

I got a sample of Studiotek and Firehawk as those were what i was really interested in, upon testing (and to be honest, an A4 sample does not do the actual screen any justice) i found my jaw on the floor with Firehawk. Given just how dark it is, i was worried about a reduction in screen brightness. However to my eyes, i did not see a great drop in brightness but better blacks and colours that were as vibrant as my matt white screen- when viewed head on.

The downer for me was the drop in brightness at the side angles and when watching from below the screen. There was a definate drop in brightness when viewed at these extremes. While i loved the FH, the drop in brightness was a concern.

The Studiotek was very impressive and had a much finer material than my DRH and the picture on the sample had more 'pop'. Like i said, a sample cannot do justice to a 'whole' screen of the stuff. Being matt white, there was no drop in brightness when viewed at different angles. Very impressed.

A while ago, i was able to get a Studiotek matt white screen to replace my DRH. The screen just screams 'quality' and the picture is more 'refined' for want of a better word, compared to my old screen. Blacks are no better than my old screen tbh. Still, am very happy with the purchase.

Last week, i was in the US and had a chance to see a FH 6ft wide screen in action with a Mitsubishi 1080p pj. I was very very interested to see if a 'proper' screen had the brightness drop off. I watched HD material with my jaw on the floor- colours, blacks and sharpness were excellent. I then watched from an angle to my suprise i did not see the drop in brightness i was expecting:eek: I even sat on the floor and looked up at the image and again, no issues with brightness drop off!! I put the lights up in the room and saw an excellent picture that i know would wash out more on my Studiotek with the same lighting.

That is why i say, don't take your A4 sample as the be all and end all of a screen image.

I went away with a new found respect for Firehawk:) In the right room, it can be awesome. But so can the Studiotek.

Stewart screens are expensive, very much so. They are like the Mercedes S Class of the car world. Expensive, but well built and scream quality.

But if you get a Stewart fixed frame screen now and need to change screen material, then that is all you do. Change the screen material. Frame stays the same (unless you go bigger or smaller etc).
 
Cheers for the impressions, Apone.

My main issue with the firehawk sample was the visible screen surface - in bright scenes it sparkled a little like sunshine on snow. Did you notice any of that? The drop off I could live with - expecially as you mention it's not so severe with a full size screen - but I couldn't handle the sheen.
 
Can't recall the 'sheen' you mention. I spent a good 1.5 hours looking at the FH in the demo room with different HD channels and SD material as well.

Saw the FH screen in blackout conditions and also tested it with the spot lights on. Great screen tbh. A4 samples do not do the screen any justice whatsoever imo.

The screen does have a 'metallic' look to it when viewed with no picture projecting onto the surface, so i undrstand where you are coming from if you see a sheen with bright scenes.

The FH is THX and ISF certified as well. I'm sure that adds to the price as well:rolleyes:

If you can afford the FH, then you owe it to yourself to get to a dealer and see it properly set up and in action. (i would even take your projector along) Only then can you be sure if it right for you. Don't base your judgement (like i did) on the sample material:)
 
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I'm thinking of buying a Carada BW screen,but since it comes from the US, Ill have custom charges :( and the screen will gain price!

My question is....with a blackout and paint will I get the same thing?
 
Guys,

I my opinion anyone looking at the firehawk should also be taking a look at the DNP Supernova fabrics.

The 08-85 material has a gain of 0.8 and incredibly wide viewing angle (85 is the half brightness angle with ref to the screen centre).

The way the fabric works results in very large improvements in contrast, especially in light coloured rooms, without any of the drawbacks of a high gain screen. The screen surface is also perfectly smooth so no worries about visible texture.
 
Guys,

I my opinion anyone looking at the firehawk should also be taking a look at the DNP Supernova fabrics.

The 08-85 material has a gain of 0.8 and incredibly wide viewing angle (85 is the half brightness angle with ref to the screen centre).

The way the fabric works results in very large improvements in contrast, especially in light coloured rooms, without any of the drawbacks of a high gain screen. The screen surface is also perfectly smooth so no worries about visible texture.

Fantastic screen saw one at Bristol show, but just so expensive at the moment :(
 
I'm still tempted to splash out on a stewart screen - I just wish they were a grand cheaper!

My experiments with Wilsonart haven't gone well at all. The drop off is almost as bad as with the Firehawk samples and the screen surface is clearly visible in bright scenes - it has a sparkly sheen. I'm half tempted to pick up a cheap Beamax fixed screen as the pulldown I got from them years ago has done sterling work, but I really want something with a little gain. I'd be surprised if their 1.5 material was actually above 1.

Picking a screen is harder than deciding on a projector!

It's around 1.2ish IIRC. I have to put together the data for the charts now and then I'll have them in the Beamax thread.

I also, finally, received some large Stewart samples. Only took them two months. :thumbsdow Their Grayhawk looks identical to Black Widow. And the Firehawk looks like a darker Black Widow.
 

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