stereo to 5.1 advice

[maix27]

I have a set of Monitor Audio BR6s.

I want to sort out a surround sound system. Should i sell them and start again, or add the rest of the BR range (rear bi-polar, centre, sub)

Does anyone know how well the floor standers will intergrate with the rears/centre?

And does anyone know how they will intergrate with the sub, given the BR6s already have a frequency rating of 33htz, while the sub is 28htz, not much difference...

Any advice would be great.

Looking to spend bout £800 quid in total for a 5.1, have already spent half on BR6s so if keeping these budget for the rest is £400...

 

[iainsilvester]

If you want a system to really impress for movies/DVD/telly you are best going for specialist 5.1 array as opposed to the "add bits on to a stereo pair" approach. This is all the manufacturers do, but they too admit if you want a specialist surround array you wouldn't start with a traditional stereo pair.

I don't know whether you will get £400 for your BR6's on the used market (I really have no idea) but £800 is tantalisingly close to £850 which I believe is the price for the SVS5.1 array (accepting this is ex stands) which would absolutely blitz the BR range in a movie show down.

Re the frequency ranges, I really wouldn't want to put movie sub bass through the BR6's.... and you can do better than the MA in this range for the sub.

Sounds like you are open to alternative arrays and form factors, in which case you can do better for your money.

 

[Etienne A]

£400 should get you the Bronze centre & BRFX surrounds! You'll need a new amp thou' (don't get skimpy on the amp!) - but i'm guessing you knew that!

As for the sub - don't get the MA sub - nothing special about them! If you're used to the BR6's bass (i've listened to BR4's a lot), then I would reccomend spending another £400 on the sub (eventually) - the Monolith should do nicely. Anything less will probably not even be up to the BR6's standard!

 

[badbob]

If you want a system to really impress for movies/DVD/telly you are best going for specialist 5.1 array as opposed to the "add bits on to a stereo pair" approach.

If you know what you're doing, you can build a very nice system up in stages. If you buy everything in one go, it means cost cutting somewhere. But if you buy in stages you can buy the best single component at that time.

My system isn't matching, but I bet it sounds better than a cheaper, matching system. At least my front array have identical mid/treble units.

 

[iainsilvester]

My system isn't matching, but I bet it sounds better than a cheaper, matching system. At least my front array have identical mid/treble units.

It wasn't so much the matching I was referring to as the form factor, BR6's and similar were not designed for surround arrays. But I suspect the OP will struggle to get a good used price for his BR6's and making a loss would furher pressure the budget and frankly no one likes to do this.

I agree with sniper, the sub is absolutely critical, devote a large part of the budget to get this right and the BR6's can be cut down to size with the amps crossover. This will prevent them trying to handle sub bass for which they were certainly not designed.

 

[maix27]

Thanks for the advice guys...

I think building in stages is what's going to happen.

I love my music so a surrond systew would have to take that heavily into account, hence i think it would be good to keep the BR6s. Plus, as iainsilvester said, i'm not going to get what i want back from the at resale, they just don't seem to be in demand (i only bought them because i got them for less the the BR5s, or i would have got them!).

So first step has to be an AV amp. I've seen a sony one (a certain magazine recomends it highly)... any suggestions??

I would then buy rears, centre and eventually sub, maybe an SVS???
I do like the look of continuity so i'd still be interested in the BR package, has any one hear one in action?

 

[Cynar]

If you want a system to really impress for movies/DVD/telly you are best going for specialist 5.1 array as opposed to the "add bits on to a stereo pair" approach. This is all the manufacturers do, but they too admit if you want a specialist surround array you wouldn't start with a traditional stereo pair.

Re the frequency ranges, I really wouldn't want to put movie sub bass through the BR6's.... and you can do better than the MA in this range for the sub.

I understand what you're getting at, but I don't believe it's as clear cut as you make out.
In an ideal world you would have 5 identical full range speakers and a sub. The speakers would all be capable of handling all the bass sent to them and the sub would be left to do the .1 LFE channel.
As we don't live in an ideal world this usually isn't possible. Space and cost considerations mean few people can afford or accomodate such a system.
As a result compromises have to be made.
Your assertion seems to be that to get decent cinema sound you have to have 5 'small' speakers and a sub as 'big' speakers are incapable of reproducing low bass.
This is just one compromised solution and there are others that I believe will work better.
Many people, myself included, also want to be able to get decent stereo playback through their system utilising the pure stereo mode of their receiver. If they adopt your advice, they have to do without decent low frequencies.
If however they use a decent pair of 'big' speakers for the front left and right there's no problem. As you say they're not ideal for reproducing really low frequencies found in cinema effects but for a lot of music their low frequency capabilities are fine. In cinema mode a lot of the really low frequencies are directed to the sub via the .1 LFE channel even if you set your speakers to large, and if you set them to small and utilise the crossover in your receiver they don't get any of the low frequency stuff.
Seems to me that adding to a traditional stereo pair is actually a very good solution and better than 5 small speakers and a sub. You get a front pair that are excellent for stereo (as that's what they were designed for ) and that work equally well for surround sound as they're effectively converted to 'small' speakers by your receiver's crossover. Obviously you need a centre channel matched to your front pair whether they're big or small.

 

[yetanotherbob]

I agree with Betty-Swallocks, the obvious thing for the OP to do would be to initially get the matching bronze centre and a couple of BRFXs or BR2s and then save the extra for a sub from the likes of SVS or BK (the XLS200 springs to mind as a good value sub).

Initially setting the speakers to large in the interim, and when the sub is in situ setting the speakers to small with a crossover of about 80hz would provide an excellent HC experience and he still has the BR6s for stereo use.

As far as amps go this isn't the best forum, but I would also look at the denons and Onkyo range. another thing to consider ampwise is if you are planning on going HD-DVD/Blu-Ray in the future make sure that it can handle the new HD audio formats (at least passing audio via LPCM), there's plenty of info in the amp forum

Bob

 

[maix27]

I like the sound of that...

keep the BR6s, buy an AV amp, buy centre/rear speakers... sell stereo amp... save HARD. Buy Sub. (keep CD player??)

Soud like a plan?

 

[yetanotherbob]

I like the sound of that...

keep the BR6s, buy an AV amp, buy centre/rear speakers... sell stereo amp... save HARD. Buy Sub. (keep CD player??)

Soud like a plan?

That's certainly what I'd do in your position

Bob

 

[badbob]

I like the sound of that...

keep the BR6s, buy an AV amp, buy centre/rear speakers... sell stereo amp... save HARD. Buy Sub. (keep CD player??)

Soud like a plan?

Fine, except don't sell the amp (stereo integrated amp?) as it'll have superior performance to a av amplifer. Just add a av amplifier, and use the centre and rear poweramp channels, pre-outs to the stereo amp, which is powering the L/R.

Or if you want to go high-end, buy a av pre-amp and a three or five channel powermp to go into 5 or 7 channel, respectively. Use the two on the stereo amp for your L/R (existing layout) a 3 channel for centre and surrounds, or a 5 for centre, surrounds and sides.

 

[Knyght_byte]

MA tend to make their lower range speakers now with a 50/50 approach to hifi/home cinema in mind....simply because just to concentrate on hifi is a small market and overloaded with choice...therefore not very profitable...

i bought a pair of MA Silver S6's, then a few months later bought a Denon 3803, then half a year later added a centre and rears (SLCR and SFX's, i used a cheap pair of Missions for rears and Gale centre from Richer sounds while i waited for more money to buy the matching MA's).....then added a better sub, then a bigger sub...heh....oh yeah and at some point a Denon 3910 DVD player, then eventually a projector.......and my setup absolutely spanks the bum off what i could have bought up front in one package initially.....the BR6's are towers of power type stuff, feed them well and sit back for a stupendous movie experience, especially once you get the matching surrounds....altho one thing i would possibly suggest is to consider the Silver range centre over the Bronze.....not sure about the BR centre, but the previous B centre version was a little weak, specially when paired with the largest floorstanders in the Bronze range.....the RS silver centre will handle similar volume loads easier........

so to summarise what i've babbled about, if you wont be able to upgrade for a while but would like a bit of surround in the meantime, pop to Richer Sounds or go second hand for a cheap pair of rear speakers and a centre, dont pay more than £70 for the lot, and grab a decent AV amp around £400 for now, make sure it has pre-outs and use your current stereo amp for the BR6's.......then, when proper funding presents itself, get the BR centre or consider the RSLCR centre, then either same time or if not whenever add the BRFX's, then grab either a Monolith or PB10 sub, or save up a bundle for a stamping great PB12/Plus or Plus 2.....heh......given the rather stupid volume levels the BR6's can reach, it may be worth considering the larger SVS, the Monolith should hold its own pretty damn well, but the Plus or Plus 2 will definitely match them.....

then, get a pair of MA's Platinums when they are released and a £1,500-3,000 stereo amp and high end CD player for a dedicated hifi setup.....bwahahaha....heh..sorry, couldnt resist mentioning it....im so glad i got my new job.....clear some space on the cards and those Plats are mine!!!

back to sanity now.....enjoy the setup whatever you end up with

edit: forgot to mention, MA do cinema very well due to their speakers generally approaching sound with a clear studio monitor kind of sound, although not completely, so they suit home living music too.......they are a good compromise if you dont fancy M&K type setup......they are especially good with vocals and car crashes

 

[Nimby]

I'd be loath to use a surround receiver for stereo music enjoyment if I already owned a stereo amp. The stereo amp can probably be used to biamp your main speakers when you do buy an AVR. So keep your stereo amp.

You can enjoy films in stereo. I did for quite a while. Then added a serious (SVS) subwoofer. This was thoroughly enjoyable and I didn't feel I was missing the surround sound at all. (I was wrong!)

If you have great bass already then I'd suggest you leave the subwoofer until last. (even though I'm often called a bass freak) So keep your speakers as mains and for stereo music.

So now you need an AVR and rear + center speakers to get surround. The center can wait if you are really strapped for cash and can find some better quality rears within your budget.

I cheated on the AVR and still use a (now discontinued) Yamaha DSP E800 5.1 surround processor with 3.1 amplification. The E800 feeds the rears and center speaker and sounds excellent even when used alongside my Naim pre-power amps on the mains. It works for me. The E800 is very affordable now due to its age. Simpler, cheaper and better SQ than any affordable new surround receiver.

Buying secondhand kit is a great idea for building a very serious system without the VAT and the first year's depreciation. Let someone else pay these for you. So now you can look further up the quality scale instead of just buying what you can only just afford at new prices.

A quality dealer's pristine ex-demo stock is a good option though usually at a higher price than private secondhand deals. You'll usually get a guarantee and carefully handled (rarely used) stock compared with buying secondhand stuff privately which may have been thrashed.

If you buy from the AV Forum's small ads columns then we all get to go round with baseball bats if you have any problems with anything you buy. Well, everybody needs a hobby!

Make haste slowly. Be selective and remember that the stuff you have now is the cheapest you will ever own. Don't waste it by selling it off to buy poorer stuff at new prices.

 

[iainsilvester]

I understand what you're getting at, but I don't believe it's as clear cut as you make out.
In an ideal world you would have 5 identical full range speakers and a sub. The speakers would all be capable of handling all the bass sent to them and the sub would be left to do the .1 LFE channel.

If this was the ideal a lot of us would have done it. General consensus and THX guidance suggests very much otherwise.

It is a compromise and the approach taken depends on whether you want a movie or music bias system. However if you really have deep pockets you can achieve both with the same array. It is interesting to consider why this is the case and why different arrays formats work better for movie or music at the less expensive end of the market.

 

[maix27]

I've just got my speakers set up in my new room, and it is way too small for such big speakers, they sound best in the adjacent en suite, which is good for showers in the morning, but not for anything else...

I'm now thinking i'm going to have to go for bookshelves/sub option.

Sell the BR6, maybe get the small MA silvers...

Probably get £300 for the speakers (£600 new!), what do people think?

 

[iainsilvester]

That's a pity. Too big in what respect, physically or sound quality? The latter is nearly always a bass issue, have you tried cutting the bass with either Eq or crossover? In theory a sub/sat will be no better, but you will have more scope to tame the sub or take care with positioning.

Be good if you don't have to take a loss, but on the plus side you may end up with a proper surround array