Stereo Amplifier Suggestions

RichardZE2

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Hi Folks,
After some suggestions. My hifi hasn't seen any upgrading for a long while and now I'm getting issues with an amp so I need to spend some money. I have the following in 2 rooms, both 35m2 and I've moved components round in the past so there's a little flexibility.

In the sitting room is a Linn Classik paired with Acoustic Energy 109's. Both are working fine and the Classik gets a better sound from the 109's than the other amp so I'll *probably* stick with that.

In the Kitchen is an Arcam Alpha 9 with a Marantz CD-63 mk2 KIS and Dynaudio Audience 52 SE bookshelf speakers.

The Arcam is the component that's on its way out and my first thought was just to get an Alpha 10 second hand to replace it as I like the 9 but have always thought it was a little underpowered. Given that the newest component I have is 10 years old though I have got around to thinking that a new amp is probably a better idea. I have Gramafon's connected to both systems for streaming but guess I should probably get an amp with a DAC and usb as I want to futureproof a little.

Looking for something in the £500-1000 range that will complement what I have and really want in the 100w region powerwise. Looks aren't important.

Demoing isn't possible as I live in Shetland.

Looking forward to some helpful ideas
Richard
 
Well, you have a complex situation ...and a somewhat limited budget relative to the quality of equipment you have.

If you simply want to replace the Arcam Alpha 9, then you are in good shape. If you are intending to add more components than that to the price, things get considerably more difficult.

From what I can gather on a brief search, the Arcam Alpha 9 is about 70w/ch to 8 ohms, decent, but still on the modest side.

Amps I would suggest would depend on how much of that £1000 you actually want to spend, and the list of equipment you hope that money will buy.

A very powerful amp at a very modest cost would be -

Yamaha AS701 Integrated, 100w/ch, with DAC - £399 -

Yamaha AS701 Amplifier with DAC - Superfi

A lot of amp for very little money.

Stepping up -

Rotel RA-12 Integrated, 60w/ch, DAC - £599 -


Rotel RA12 Amplifier With DAC - Superfi

Marantz PM8005, 70w/ch, no DAC - £595 -

Marantz PM8005 Amplifier - Superfi

Arcam FMJ-A29, 80w/ch, no DAC - £995 -


Arcam FMJ A29 Amplifier - Superfi

Denon PMA-1520AE, 70w/ch, no DAC - £924 -


Denon PMA1520AE Amplifier - Superfi

If you can raise your budget, then ...

Rotel RA-1570 Integrated, 120w/ch, DAC (2xOptical,2xCoaxial,USB-Media), Phono, 2xPre-Amp out, etc... - £1195 -

Rotel RA1570 Amplifier With DAC - Superfi

A couple of additional amps.

I found a very good deal on the Yamaha AS1100. In searching, I found this amp selling for as high as £1400, however, Peter Tyson has it for £899. That's a pretty nice price on one of Yamaha's Higher End Amps.

Yamaha AS1100 Integrated, 90w/ch, no DAC, High Quality - £899 -


Peter Tyson - Yamaha A-S1100

If you want the link to this amp selling for £1400, I can provide it, but you can find it by doing a simply Google-UK Shopping search.

Taking a completely different approach in what would be regarded as a VERY HIGH Feature consumer grade amp -

Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver, AM/FM, 80w/ch, Bluetooth, Network Streaming, DAC (2xOptical/2xCoaxial), Phono In, Sub Out - £449 -


Yamaha RN602 Networked Stereo Receiver - Superfi

You trade a bit of quality for many desirable feature in a modern does-it-all amp. Here is a local thread in which we got a report from someone who bought the Yamaha RN602 -

NEW: Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver!!!

It is about knowing and setting your priorities.

If your priorities is a modern amp that has Local Network and Internet Streaming ability for Audio, as well as a DAC for connecting to a TV, then the Yamaha RN602 is a good choice.

If you want a blend of digital combined with high power, plus extreme economy for the amp you get, the Yamaha AS701 is a worth consideration.

If you simply want good proven quality, no fancy features, at a modest price, then certainly the Marantz PM8005 is a worthy consideration.

If you want better quality and a fair set of feature, either of the Rotel amps are certainly nice (RA-12 = £600, RA-1570 = £1195). Under budget, the Rotel RA-12 is certainly worth considering, and the matching RCD-12 CD player is about £100 less (£499).

Rotel RCD12 CD Player - Superfi

If you do have interest in a new amp with CD Player or with a Network Audio Player, Peter Tyson has very good deals on the Marantz PM8005+SA8005 CD/SACD Player, or the Marantz PM8005+NA80056 Network Player, both for a bit over £1000.

Marantz PM8005 - Marantz SA8005 SACD/CD Player

Marantz PM8005 - Marantz NA8005 Network Audio Player

Of course, if you want to dump the entire £1000 into the Arcam FMJ-A29, you are more than welcome to to that. You know how Arcam sound, so it is a very low gamble buying another Arcam.

You may have your own opinions of Yamaha, but on the higher end they sound pretty darn good, and the Peter Tyson price on the Yamaha AS1100 (£899) is outstanding.

Here is the Yamaha AS1100 from several sources in the £1300 to £1400 range, just to establish that they really do sell for that much.

Yamaha A-S1100 Premium Amplifier

http://www.hiwayhifi.co.uk/yamaha-a...r-mosfet-amplification-vu-meters-piano-finish

Yamaha A-S1100 Integrated Amplifier

Yamaha AS1100 Integrated Amplifier - Only £1,399.00 | AV Lounge

So, what you need to do is sort out your priorities.

Do you want a high quality very minimalist amp? (Arcam)

Do you want an amp with some basic modern features like a DAC? (Yamaha, Rotel)


Do you want a bit higher quality with nice features, that puts you above consumer, but on the low side of high end? (Rotel, Marantz)

Do you want an absolute bargain in a high powered amps with a DAC? (Yamaha AS701)

Do you want a consumer grade amp with all the latest Streaming, Bluetooth, and DAC features? (Yamaha RN602)

Do you want a higher end amp with a higher feature set and good quality, but on the expensive side? (Rotel RA-1570)


Do the Marantz Package deal interest you? They are pretty sweet, but do the resulting packages serve your needs?

Does having access to the Internet, 20,000 Internet Radio Station, as well as Several Streaming Services have any interest for you? (Marantz PM/NA package, Yamaha RN602)

Do you want Tone Controls? Yes? No? Indifferent?


Again, in your own mind, you need to determine your priorities. Those priorities are what will direct you to the amp that best serves you.

That should start the process.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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And to add to the comprehensive thoughts Steve listed above, I have to say that I was pretty impressed with the Pioneer A70DA (pretty sure it was the DA) that was playing at the Bristol show. Simple setup with the amp driving a pair of KEF R500s (again, I think they were 500s). Sounded pretty impressive - delivering a solid and neutral punchy sound.
 
Try a second hand roksan Kandy 125 watts per channel in 8 ohm sound quality is muscular with a delicacy in the treble
 
Wow, thats some answer from Steve, will have to take some time running through the reviews - thankyou.

The budget is just for an amp, its flexible to about 1250 and I'm not too concerned with connecting it to a TV. Streaming options are nice but not a must, decent output and sound are the main requirements. Having had a quick glance at some of them the Yamaha A-S1100 retro looks are very appealing, not that looks matter much to me but its an eye catcher.
 
I wouldn't go for marantz amps as they not reliable I had a marantz amp a pm 66se and a marantz CD recorder both failed a few days after the amp wasn't switching on and the CD recorder the laser failed
 
Do not NOT buy an amp because it has a DAC. You may not need it now, but now doesn't last forever.

Also the DAC can be used with a CD Transport. If you think the amp has better DACs than your CD Player, you can use the Optical Out of the CD (if it has one) into the DAC on the amp.

Still an external DAC can be added at a pretty fair prices should the need arise down the road. (£150 to £400)

CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DACMAGIC 100 Black DAC

CAMBRIDGE AUDIO DACMAGIC PLUS Black DAC


ARCAM irDAC II Black Digital Pre-Amplifier/DAC

Equally, a separate Network Streaming device can be had in the £500 to £1000 range. As an example, the Bluesound Streaming device is about £500, and the Marantz Network Player is about £600.

Bluesound NODE 2 Hi-Res Wireless Music Streamer

Marantz NA-8005

And of course many other DACs and Streaming Devices.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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Wow, thats some answer from Steve, will have to take some time running through the reviews - thankyou.

... Having had a quick glance at some of them the Yamaha A-S1100 retro looks are very appealing, not that looks matter much to me but its an eye catcher.

At the full £1400, I'm less impressed with the Yamaha AS1100, but at a more modest £900, it does become a very appealing amp. Like I said once you leave the consumer grade and move up to Yamaha's higher end, these are pretty impressive amps, and this is the latest version.

Decent Power, High Quality, just the basics, but just the basics is what you seem to need. If other needs like Streaming or a DAC arise later, they can be dealt with later.

Just one man's opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 
In addition, for some reason Yamaha feels the need to fudge the power ratings on the Yamaha AS1100, but if you check the manual, it is rated at a solid 90w/ch to 8 ohms. That's plenty of power.

90w + 90w, 8 ohms, 20 to 20khz, 0.07% THD

Steve/bluewizard
 
Having looked at most of the suggested kit I'm now questioning my requirements. The functionality of the Yamaha RN602 has prompted me to wonder if my original thinking was probably a bit selfish.

I have a 2 kids in their early teens, my 14yo daughter is as much into music as I am and surprisingly we overlap in taste a fair bit. The vast options for kids from youtube, spotify etc means they are out of the box eclectics musically as far I can see.

Anyway, I had a 3.5mm jack going into an adapter that she could connect her iphone to the Arcam with but the options the RN602 offers seem much more family friendly.

The price point however puts me off as all that connectivity must come at a price and it can't leave much for the amp, certainly not relative to the speakers it'll be hooked up to.

So any suggestions for something similar in connectivity but in a higher quality bracket? The Rotel RCX-1500 looks interesting and/but includes a CD transport. There are a number of ways of looking at that. Obviously as I own a Linn Classik I'm not a purist about separates, but I cherish the Mk2 KIS and it's going nowhere. It's old though and having a single unit with a transport in might be a good plan in the long run, I guess that depends how good it is.

The sound quality is still more important but I might up the budget a little if there any stand-out amps with network capability in the sub-1500 range. I know I could network separately but I want to explore this route first.
 
fwiw, an amp with 125 wpc will not play any louder than your 70 wpc amp that you have now. maybe a few db's higher but that's it. in your size room I do not see any advantage on a new amp unless your speakers are not very efficient (say 4-6 ohm). I would spend your hard earned money wisely elsewhere. over 90% of sound quality comes from your speakers and how your room is treated for acoustics, not from an amp or wires .
 
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fwiw, an amp with 125 wpc will not play any louder than your 70 wpc amp that you have now. maybe a few db's higher but that's it. in your size room I do not see any advantage on a new amp unless your speakers are not very efficient (say 4-6 ohm). I would spend your hard earned money wisely elsewhere. over 90% of sound quality comes from your speakers and how your room is treated for acoustics, not from an amp or wires .

As I mentioned I'm having issues with the amp, it cuts out after a few minutes in a manner that would indicate overheating, but there's no heat to speak of as it occurs at low volume - so I need a new amp regardless of the power question as I'm not throwing money at repairing a 20 year old amp. I've tripped it on overheat many times as I like volume so really feel that a bigger amp might help me keep it within its tolerances.

Without going on at length about the power requirement I may also move house in the next couple of years and would then have a different sized room and speakers to match so there is an element of future-proofing in this too.

Here's the technical spec of the speakers as I'd be interested to hear what you think about the potential to increase output?

Technical Specifications
Sensitivity (2.83 V/1 m): 86 dB
IEC Long Term Power Handling: 150 W
Impedance: 4 Ohms
 
I provided you with a lot of links. You might want to look this one over again -

NEW: Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver!!!

There are other separate Streaming Devices, not every thing has to be built into the amp. The Pioneer Network Players seem to be well liked. Denon makes a Network Player that is pretty reasonably priced. Of course, as with all things, you get what you pay for.

Here are some examples -

Denon DNPF109 Networked Audio Player with Internet Radio - Superfi

Denon DNP730AE Wireless Networked Audio Player - Superfi

Pioneer N50A Networked Music Server - Superfi

Arcam CDS27 CD Player and Streamer - Superfi

The Pioneer N50A is pretty popular. There is also a lower cost N30 Model -

Pioneer N30 Network Audio Streamer

Though difficult to know in advance, what really makes a Network Streaming Device is not so much the device itself as it is the Control App that comes with it. It is the Control App that you will be interacting with and the smoothness of that App, and the features it has completely determine your experience. But as I said, it is hard to know the details of the Control App before you install it.

However, there is good news, most of these Control Apps are available on-line for FREE.

Just as a illustration, nothing more, here is a video of the Cambridge Audio Control App. There are a couple others on the Cambridge YouTube Channel.





Again, that is just to illustrate the nature of the Control Apps in general.

Probably the best Streaming Device would be the Bluesound NODE 2 (£429), which has Hi-Res file capability.

Bluesound NODE 2 Hi-Res Wireless Music Streamer

Less well known in the UK, but very popular in the USA.

In quality amps with Streaming built in, NAIM makes very high quality amps, but count on paying a pretty penny for them.

Shop for Digital Streamers at Frank Harvey Hi Fi Excellence

NAIM
are at the bottom of the first page, and the top of the next. As well, you can see all the Streaming Devices offered by HIFIX.

NAIM Unitlite All-In-One - 50w/ch, Streaming - £1995 -


Naim UnitiLite All in One Audio System

If we assume a maximum budget of £1200, and subtract £430 for the Bluesound Node 2, that leaves £770 for a replacement Amp.

If you can stretch that a bit, the Yamaha AS1100 is £900 + £430 for the Bluesound Node, for a total of £1330.

In more of a Network Player, the Pioneer N30 (£310) and more so the Pioneer N50 (£449) would be good alternatives.

If you really want to trim you budget for Streaming back, the most certainly check into the Denon DNP-720AE Player (£320).

Even if you get the Arcam FMJ-A29 (£999), with the Pioneer N30 or the Deon DNP-720, you are at about £1320 total. Over budget, but not by a massive amount.

Rotel does make Streaming Devices, I have no direct experience, but indications are that they are not the smoothest out there. So, a bit low on my radar. However, the Rotel RA-12 Integrated, 60w/ch, with DAC (£599) would be worth considering, and would leave you plenty of money for a Streaming Device like the Bluesound Node 2 (£430). That would take you a trace over £1000.

The Pioneer A70 and the newer Pioneer A70DA (with USB DAC) look nice and I'm sure they sound great, but the power is on the low side. The Pioneer A70 and the A70DA are rated at 90w/ch, but that is to 4 ohms.

To a standard 8 ohms, the the Pioneer A70/A70DA are rated at -

65 W + 65 W (20 Hz-20 kHz, THD 0.5 %, 8 ohms)

That's not bad, but at £800, I would be inclined to expect more. Still, not bad, a reasonable amount of power, and I would expect the Pioneer to sound good. Though I bought it decades ago, the best sounding amp I ever had was a Pioneer ... for whatever that might be worth today.

An Pioneer A70 amp at £800 + the N50 Streamer £450, we have a total of £1250. Whether that represents a standard of quality and value that suits you, only you can determine.

Streaming Device vs Network Player -

That is a tough one. I think at its core, a Network Player is simply styled more like common Audio equipment. Though they tend to be higher priced ... for some reason.

As an alternative, Cambridge Audio has introduced the new CX line to replace the old AZUR line of amps, cds, and streaming device. The price is a bit high on these though. I will present them simply as an option.

Cambridge CXA60 Integrated amp, 60w/ch, DAC - £500 -


CAMBRIDGE CXA60Black Stereo Amplifier

Cambridge CXA80 Integrated amp, 80w/ch, DAC - £750 -

CAMBRIDGE CXA80Black Stereo Amplifier

Cambridge CXN Network Music Player - £700 -


CAMBRIDGE CXNBlack Network Music Player

Generally, Cambridge has made very good Streaming Devices, the previous StreamMagic 6 was highly praised, and the StreamMagic 6 can probably still be found, though getting extremely rare now.

Here are the links to specs on the Cambridge Website.

CX Series

CXA60

CXA80

CXN

Amps that combine quality amps, with digital features like DACs, and then add Streaming capability are rare in today's market, however, I think they are going to become more common in the future, though that doesn't do you much good.

I think for the most reliable system, the amp of your choice combined with the Bluesound Node 2 would produce the best results, though you can certainly spend a bit less on the Streaming aspect and still come out with a good system.

However, in amps with Streaming built in, your choices are very limited.

I can only run through the possibilities, it is up to you to assess your budget and priorities and work out which is the best solution for you.

In Streaming, if the device streams and the Control App is decent, then the sound quality of your system is really going to come from the Amp and Speakers. So, in my personal opinion, don't get too obsessed with the quality of the Streaming device. That is, no need to spend thousands when hundreds will do. In quality, you want reliability and ease of use; I think the sound quality will take care of itself.

Hopefully we have given you some ideas on what is possible.

Though I would most certainly recommend that you try to hear it first. They £1400 Yamaha AS1100 at £900 is a pretty fantastic deal, combined with the Bluesound Node 2 at £430, takes your budget up to (£900 + £430) a bit on the high side, but workable £1330.

Too my knowledge, Sevenoaks is the only retailer with the Bluesound products.

But then ... that's just my opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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I provided you with a lot of links. You might want to look this one over again -

NEW: Yamaha RN602 Network Receiver!!!

Thanks for the ideas - I did look at this one, it was this that prompted me to think a networked amp might suit my wife and kids better. As I said earlier, I would go to 1500 for a networked amp so the Yamaha AS1100/Bluesound Node 2 is worth me having a look, 2 boxes isn't ideal though in the current location. Will have a look through the suggestions, thanks again.
 
... the Yamaha AS1100/Bluesound Node 2 is worth me having a look, 2 boxes isn't ideal though in the current location. Will have a look through the suggestions, thanks again.

Keep us informed about any auditions you do, and ultimately let us know what you choose and how satisfied you are with it.

Here is a link to the Bluesound Website.

Shop Online : Bluesound

NODE 2 : Bluesound

NODE 2 Gross Dimensions

220 x 46 x 146 mm
8.7 x 1.8 x 5.7 in

Only 1.8" high.

Also, there are YouTube Videos reviewing the Bluesound Node 2, you can get a sense of the size in a common setting.



The NODE2 also has Bluetooth APT-X capability, so you can stream directly from a Smart Phone or Smart Pad.

Glad we could help.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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Keep us informed about any auditions you do, and ultimately let us know what you choose and how satisfied you are with it.

Steve/bluewizard

I will let you know what I choose and how it turns out. There won't be any auditions though as its either a 12 hour boat journey to Aberdeen or a flight, hence the questions. AFAIK Sevenoaks in Aberdeen closed down, there isn't one in Scotland at all now.
 
Given that I can't demo anything I've gone for the the Yamaha AS1100 from Peter Tyson and will worry about networking another day. I need a replacement amp sooner rather than later and for the price it looks a lot of amp. Thanks Steve for pointing it out. Will feedback on how it sounds in due course.
 
Though of very limited value, here is a Video of some large high-end Tannoy speakers with a Yamaha AS2000 Amp. You can't really say you've heard the amp or the speakers, but you can hear enough to understand that this is a very clear amp.



I think if you research it, you will find that the Bluesound Node is very popular and at £430 is good value. The advantage it has over some of the older brands is that the Bluesound will stream Hi-Res audio files, and the new NODE 2 has Bluetooth capability, which would be real handy for casual listening or if a friend stops over and wants you to hear some of his music.

For example, here is a 5-Star review from the UK "What HiFi?" -

Bluesound Node 2 review | What Hi-Fi?

and -

Bluesound Generation 2 Streaming Music System Review

Bluesound Node Review: Goodbye Sonos, Hello Bluesound - Let's Talk Tech (NODE v1)

I'm not saying that the NODE 2 is the best there is, only that it is a very economical way of adding Streaming to a system. Very consistent with your stated budget.

I suspect give that their previous product all received very positive reviews, that the Cambridge CXN Network Player would be very good. They also seem to have a refined Control App ...but... the Cambridge CXN costs £700. That's a considerable price jump.

So, the NODE 2 is recommended with an eye on keeping your budget under control.

If you look at this thread or mini-review, you see the first comment criticizes the Control App indicating that it does not have some features the person would like, but the beauty of software is that it can be updated very easily.

Bluesound Gen 2!

Overall though, I think you will find the response to the Bluesound to be generally positive.

Again, Streaming can be done for very little money. I think I've seen units in the roughly £50 to £100 range, though expect those to be worth what they cost. Typically, Streamers run around £500 and Network Players run around £1000. Though the price can certainly go up into the thousands.

Again, very eager to hear what you think of the Yamaha Amp with your speakers.

Steve/bluewizard
 
Also - sorry to keep beating this dead horse - but I have heard very positive things about the Pioneer Network Players. They are also in your budget range. Certainly when the time comes, check out reviews on them. I think you will find they are generally positive -

Pioneer N50A Networked Music Server - Superfi

Keep in mind Network Streaming also give you access to Internet Radio.

Pioneer N-50 review | What Hi-Fi?

The next model up is the Pioneer N70A Network Player which is a considerable £999. Given that price, the Pioneer N50A is far more reasonably priced, it is the most popular model.

N-50A | Pioneer

For best value I suspect the NODE 2 and the Pioneer N50 are the best choices.

Steve/bluewizard
 
The pioneer N50A had caught my eye as a potential buy. I need to better understand what the performance difference between a £379 network player and a £999 network player is. Is it as fundamental as the quality/components of the DAC and a what point does the improvement become extremely incremental?

The N50A vs the N70A for example seems to boil down to 192 kHz/32-bit D/A Converter vs 384 kHz/32-bit D/A Converter. The price at Superfi is 379 vs 999, thats a big jump so any idea of what it means in terms of performance would be great. Also noted a 4kg weight difference so there must be more to it than the DAC.
 
There is no 348k/32b content, and very likely there never will be. The DACs do upsample lower content, but views on that are mixed. Though more and more DAC and Network Streamers are doing it.

Also, keep in mind that the retail on the Pioneer N50A is £500. The Pioneer N70 is with no discount at £999.

I suspect the difference is component quality, and the N70 has Balanced output, and of course, as mentioned, better DACs.

I don't specifically see that either of them say they have DSD capability. DSD is the file format for SACDs. You could go your whole life streaming Hi-Res files and never encounter DSD.

I don't see any mention of DSD for the Bluesound, so I'm going to assume it is not supported. But keep in mind you control whether you have DSD files. If you are downloading Hi-Res files, simply buy FLAC instead of DSD.

Also, the Bluesound has (more or less) one button access to Streaming services like Spotify, Slacker, Pandora, Tidal (Hi-Res), Rhapsody, and several others. Very handy.

For absolute value it is hard to beat the Pioneer N50, and the N50, due to price, is the most popular model. I would suggest you research some Reviews and Videos to see if you can get some sense of the Control App.

Again, that App really makes or breaks a Streaming Device. If it operates smoothly, is well laid out, and has a good compliment of features, that makes for a great user experience.

Equally, that is the one aspect that you really can't know until it is too late.

For what it is worth.

Steve/bluewizard
 
I wrote an appraisal on here of the R-N602 when I got it, and I still think it's a great bit of kit. It's currently sat there playing the latest Mogwai album and sounding great through my Zensor 1 speakers.

It replaced a Denon network amp (DRA-N5) that decided to start locking up. I'd had it since new for a few years and it was always a bit flaky, Airplay in particular would have occasional drop outs - I always thought that was just "one of those things".

Anyways, the Yamaha has been rock solid and hasn't missed a beat once, it's been used virtually every day for nearly three months or so.

There are good deals to be had on it - I paid £339 for mine back in January.

I'm sure the other kit mentioned in here is decent too, but I didn't audition them against the Yamaha so can't say whether they're better or worse.

I think whatever you get you'll be happy with, good luck!
 
Given that I can't demo anything I've gone for the the Yamaha AS1100 from Peter Tyson and will worry about networking another day. I need a replacement amp sooner rather than later and for the price it looks a lot of amp. Thanks Steve for pointing it out. Will feedback on how it sounds in due course.
Recently I too purchased the AS1100 and am rather pleased with it. It replaces the AS500 which I was never very pleased with and is many, many times better. Apart from the better tonal balance and much better controlled bass, the whole sound stage is clear as a bell. The Phono input for vinyl is better than I have heard in years and it has meters on the front and tone controls to fall back on in case of need.
I too saw some heavily discounted units around and these appeared to be re-furbished units - proceed with caution. In fact Yamaha have just added £100 to their list price in UK.
 

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