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Staying the course!

Discussion in 'General Video Gaming Chat' started by Jade, May 31, 2002.

  1. Jade

    Jade
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    Hi guys,

    This is a difficult question I know, but I am thinkin of buying an X-Box (never bought a games console before), but my concern is the rumours I hear about it not doing so well commercially and the possibility of it going under the same way the old dreamcast did.
    Is this a false concern? Alarmist gossip? Or is there a real possibility that it might fold in the near future?

    Should I go for a Game Cube instead?

    Opinions would be appreciated! ;)

    Jade.
     
  2. fuzzybee

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    There is no question of the Xbox going the same way the dreamcast did.

    There are some superb games out already and from what I have seen and read about E3 there are some stunning games on the way and the Xbox has massive worldwide support.

    As for GC they are superb and we all know how good nintendo games are and the future looks to be the brightest of all 3 next-gen consoles?

    However there is on;y one person who can deceide what to buy and that is you.

    Good Luck
     
  3. Sinzer

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    When buying a games machine the best option is to research it a little. DO NOT base your decision on whether it has Dolby 5.1 or 5 billion uber polygons/second, but base your decision on the games currently released and the games likely to be released.

    Have a look around one of the online games sites like

    www.gamespy.com (recommended for ease of E3 reports)
    www.gamespot.com or .co.uk (now pay for, not so useful)
    www.pczone.com (is also for CVG ie consoles)

    Now is a good time to do a little research as E3 has just taken place and all the new games have been listed.

    Personally, I would recommend either PS2 or GC. The X-Box is technically superior but any games that arrive on it will likely be developed for both other consoles, failing that they will be on the PC. If you really just enjoy American/European developed games then the X-Box may be worth considering, personally I hate using the joypads and after playing HALO and DAO3 I cannot see what all the fuss is about. Saying that I do have an Athlon XP PC with a Geforce 4 Gfx card and it blows the X-Box out of the water (Jedi Knight 2 in full res 4x FSAA is simply superb).

    PS2 has a few good games for it, and if you look for a 2nd hand machine you can most likely pick it up on the cheap. Obviously, you have a few good exclusive title lines like Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Tekken. If you enjoy driving and fighting games this is the console to have.

    GC, this console is the most niche market as it has the most exclusive titles of any current console, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Resident Evil series (from this point on), Kameo, Star Fox, Pikmin, the new square deal (creators of FF series). This console will really be designed for the console kiddy, the X-Box and PS2 are veering more towards the PC games market, dark titles aimed at an older audience. GC is aimed at all, so you will see true console games, arcade, bright colours, pick up and play games.

    In the end it is the type of games you want to play, if you don't have a games PC I would most likely say that the PS2/X-Box will get you the best range of games, but in all likelyhood not provide you with a great many classics. if you also want online gaming they are also good choices as they will be compatible with broadband and will definately be mirroring the big upcoming online PC titles (everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies) and the current faves like counterstrike. Personally, I am selling my PS2 and getting a GC :)
     
  4. fuzzybee

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    Do not confuse the question a PC as a games format is a joke.
    You say you have a very powerfull pc that blows the Xbox out of the water?

    NO NO and NO upgrade this upgrade that turn of this turn of that config this config that a bloody joke.

    I own a very powerfull pc but as a games machine it is nothing but a pain in the arse.

    No pc game can come close to halo in any shape or form
     
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    Blimey!

    I think if the PC is not as good as the XBOX now, it soon will be. PCs evolve rapidly and will leave any games console standing by the end of its lifetime.
     
  6. Squiffy

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    The PC already does outstrip the performance of any games console. No console can match an Athlon XP2100 with GF4 and SoundBlaster Audigy. Of course there is the price difference, but enough gaming PC's are sold that some people seem happy to pay the premium for PC gaming.
     
  7. richard plumb

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    In my opinion, if you want the safe option, buy a PS2. It has an unassailable userbase, will get most of the mainstream games and can play DVDs.

    If you are happy to just want great games, I'd recommend a Gamecube. You'll also get many of the big publishers 3rd party games and also Nintendo's own titles, which are widely recognised to be some of the finest in the world.

    Yes there is. No one expected Dreamcast to fail as dramatically as it did. It owned E3 two years running and still failed. Xbox is rapidly treading in Sega's footsteps and they have to be really careful.

    They didn't have a great E3 showing this year (steel battalions and splinter cell looked great though)

    The thing that may save them is Microsoft's deep pockets. But they've already cut the price very early, and if people get a whiff of failure they won't buy it and there's nothing MS can do to stop that.
     
  8. Jade

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    Thanks for the opinions guys, keep em comin!

    I am erring toward a PS2 at the mo! Like richard says it has a massive userbase. Therefore it has a bigger choice of games titles. Plus, I like Tomb Raider, and apparently the new one is only coming out on the PS2!

    ;)
     
  9. fuzzybee

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    Like I said there is no chance of the Xbox going the way the Dreamcast did.

    Sega were in so much financial trouble they had to abandone the dreamcast sadly as it is a superb machine but microsoft are one of the richest companys in the world and will do anything to make Xbox a success and it will be.

    Back to the question in hand

    If I was going to buy just one console at the moment it would be a GC without question.
    Yes the ps2 has more games but 99% of them are very poor and it is now 2 years into it's life.

    GC has just comeout has fantastic games already and there are loads coming out and nintendo and Rare make the best games in the world and that is a fact.

    Go for a GC cheaper better and a better future than the other 2.
    Sony are already talking of ps3 and they admit ps2 cannot compete with GC and Xbox it is not the quantity of games available it is the quality that counts.

    Good luck with what you decide but to be honest all three have a good future and great games only one console will get more great games than the others and that is cubeshaped.
     
  10. richard plumb

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    Money helps, but if the public lose confidence in Xbox, all the money in the world won't help Microsoft. People will stop buying it, publishers will stop publishing on it.

    It may not happen, but its still a risky bet in my opinion. Shame, as its capable of some really nice stuff.



    As for GC - I'd recommend it too, but the simple fact of the matter is that there are more games for PS2 and there are always likely to be for this generation. Sony have already sold 30m of them worldwide, and the momentum its built up isn't going to be beaten easily.

    If you like games you should probably have both PS2 and GC, but if you can only buy one and need choice, right now I'd have to go with PS2.


    Rare making the best games in the world is debatable, but after they are bought by Acclaim/Activision/whoever and start doing Ps2 games it won't matter anyway.
     
  11. NeoBlade

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    Hehe, indeed its coming out on the PC and PS2 ^_^

    You just need to look at the games that YOU like to play and then decide on the format that suits you the most. If I were to give you an answer I'd say the PS2 would be the console to own at the moment... But who's to say you can't own a Gamecube as well? The Gamecube could be going down in price again thanks to the Xbox and PS2's price drop... It has happened in the US but it might take longer to happen in the UK.

    Someone on the post said that 99% of PS2 titles are poor... It depends purely on your gaming taste. The PS2 does have some great games in almost every genre - Driving (GT3), action (GTA3), platform (Jak and Daxter), RPGs (FFX just to mention one), fighters (Tekken, VF, Capcom Vs SNK..), etc and there are 100's of games to choose from. But I would agree to a certain extent that the PS2 lineup in terms of quality is low. Since you like the Tomb Raider series the new title should keep you busy, and of course you can always try out other platformers like Jak and Daxter or Crash. Hell Metal Gear Solid 2 certainly needs a mention as well.

    Another point was made for the Gamecube being the kiddies console. I don't quite agree with that but I can see where he's coming from. Nintendo do produce family oriented videogames, purely because they want everyone in the family to play and not just the "hardcore" gamer. Since they have that aim in mind the games can appear easier or childish to some but they are often backed with superb gameplay (Mario 64 and Zelda 64 springs to mind).

    The Gamecube will get stronger with the "exclusive" titles like Resident Evil from Capcom, Zelda, Mario Sunshine, Metroid, Star Fox Adventures and Eternal Darkness... All of them bar Zelda will be out this year. The Gamecube also has decent 3rd party support so most games that are on the PS2 will appear on the GameCube as well.

    And then theres the Xbox... Technically very sound indeed but since its a console and not a PC, its the GAMES that count. So far anyway it looks pretty poor IMO. Only Halo is worth buying and if you don't like FPS's then theres almost nothing left to buy. Even if you look at the "Coming Soon" list there is nothing that will grab your attention. ShenMue II is on the Dreamcast over here and the latest rumour is that Sonic Adventure 3 will be on the Gamecube and Xbox... Other than that theres not too much to list.

    At the end of the day its up to you. If you want my honest opinion get both the PS2 and Gamecube for the best gaming mix of this generation. If you do I'm sure you won't regret it ^_^
     
  12. richard plumb

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    Have you seen peter pan on the PS2? Sony are also aiming for the 'kiddy' market, but are trying their best to stay 'cool'.

    I actually think Nintendo are the most mature of the three. They aren't afraid of having the 'kiddy' tag. If you really like games you'll buy a GC because you know Nintendo are quality. They don't have to pretend to be hard because they deliver the goods.

    Games aren't about being 'mature' or 'kiddy'. They are about being good or bad. Most of Nintendo's kiddy games are way better than most of Sony's mature ones.
     
  13. NeoBlade

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    Exactly, its also a shame that most original titles are looked down upon because it doesn't have a sequel prefix. The gaming industry is in trouble IMO since originality and quality games doesn't awlays shift units... Just look at the Dreamcast. Instead we get cash cows like FIFA, NHL (insert any EA game) that dominate sales while doing very little to improve the gameplay.

    The kiddy image will always be around Nintendo but then most gamers know that they produce the goods 9/10 for their games. If you look at the Mario series not one game is like for like, often being drastically different showing the progression and innovation of gameplay in the series. Compare this to say MegaMan or FIFA where the core gameplay hasn't changed much at all, even with annual releases.

    Another thing that annoys me, (I'll stop ranting after this don't worry ^_^) is how some developers automatically think that certain consoles are aimed at x, y or the z market exclusively. Consoles can't sell itself without games... And its the games that determine the age group, not just by the firsty party developers, but by the 3rd party as well. I guess Nintendo were guilty of this in the SNES era (green blood anyone?) but now its all been relaxed. One game I wouldn't mind seeing is the next Conker on the Gamecube... It was a funny and enjoyable game but it pushed the N64 far too hard as the framerate was all over the place. Rare should be going multiplatform soon so that title will probably end up on the PS2. If it does then theres always Mario Sunshine. That game just looks fun, something that can't be applied for many games thesedays...
     
  14. gene brewer

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    I vote for PS2 - best prices, big secondhand & bargain market, best looking console :)rolleyes: :D ) and Devil May Cry is awesome!! ;)
     
  15. NeoBlade

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    Devil May Cry is pretty sweet, but it does suffer from an awful PAL conversion. Huge borders and slower gameplay... But if you've never seen the NTSC version and don't care then its cool. Bet you can't wait for the sequel eh? ^_^
     
  16. Dick Scratcher

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    Blimey. So XBOX is outselling Gamecube by almost 3 to 1 in Japan at the mo. Be interesting to see what Nintendo do next.
     
  17. NeoBlade

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    lol I doubt that because Bandai's Wonderswan has outsold the Xbox in Japan. And thats saying something. I think the total Xbox units sold in Japan are 200,000+ from the latest reports. The only area that the Xbox has done well in is surprise surprise... The USA. In Europe and Japan sales have lagged badly so much so that MS' original prediction of 6 million units sold worldwide by the end of the year has dropped to 3.5 to 4 million. Add the recent price cut into the equation and MS have lost millions.

    Before the price cut MS were loosing about $120 per console. After the price cut the loss is huge... Good thing they have deep pockets because they'll need every penny.
     
  18. fuzzybee

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    Blimey. So XBOX is outselling Gamecube by almost 3 to 1 in Japan at the mo. Be interesting to see what Nintendo do next.


    Where have you read this mate because I think you will find Xbox lagging well behind in the land of the rising sun
     
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    I think the 3 to 1 ratio is on a week by week basis, not a total consoles sold. I haven't got a link handy at the moment but the last official weekly sales announced by Famitsu (not sure which week it was for) show Xbox outselling the Game Cube for the first time. Can't see it lasting to be honest unless the Japanese go mad for Tekki (the mech game with the huge controller) which might happen. It certainly is the 1 game I think the Japanese might like which they can't get anything like it on the other systems. All in all the Jap market isn't hugely important for the Xbox, but it does need to do well in Europe.
     
  20. Dick Scratcher

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    Chaps,

    Get yourselves over to xbox-scene.com and check out the weekly's. Its official, XBOX owners can be smug. Well, for a week anyway.
     
  21. Dick Scratcher

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    By the way, I did say it was 'outselling' Gamecube, I didn't say it had 'outsold' it!
     
  22. NeoBlade

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    lol Well anything can happen. Nothing can touch the PS2 in terms of sales though, even if you combine GC and Xbox sales its no-where near enough. It must be that new mecha game causing a stirr over in Japan... Either that or news of another love sim...
     
  23. Guest

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    I think i'll finally buy an american ps2, i really like the look of the game cube but i wouldn't buy pal anything ;)

    As for the xbox i have two top gaming comps and i'm sure halo will be heading my way in the next year :eek:
     
  24. Sinzer

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    Hehe, ja4sure, those Japanese sure love their sim games, something not right though about selling dirty knickers in vending machines and producing too many games about chatting up virtual women.

    Hmmm, time to go rummaging through my flatmates laundry could most probably make a nice little export business :)
     
  25. Azrikam

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    Although I don't think for a second that the XBox is going to go the way of the Dreamcast, (just look at MS's online plans for some evidence of that) would that be such a terrible thing? I bought a Dreamcast when it came out. (can't remember the price, but it was first when it was released in the US) And, through just a few games (Soul Caliber, NFL2k, Virtual Tennis, Crazy Taxi, MDK2) I easily got my money's worth on the system, and have never regretted buying the system. Sure, a popular console will have more developers, but there are already a bunch of great games out, and even more in development, so I'm not worried.

    If MS decided to pull the plug today and not release another game, I still wouldn't regret my XBox purchase. (and that's just with Halo, DOAIII, and JSRF!!!)
     
  26. NeoBlade

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    The thing is though the Dreamcast has quality games on it for many genres. I think I touched on this on another forum but I thought the videogame industry was in trouble if quality games couldn't sell itself, which made developers bank on "safe" titles - making original, fun and fresh games near impossible to see the light of day. A console doesn't need huge 3rd party support to go down well with the fans but of course it helps. Right now publishers wouldn't go near a title if it wasn't "trendy" or won't have countless sequels attached to it. Of which thats why the Microsoft Xbox rep quit to set up his own publishing house...

    At least developers can't use technology as an excuse now for making good games, IMO level design and gameplay concepts needs to advance as much as the graphics for gaming to reach a new level. Of which could take some time... >_<
     
  27. Lex

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    I think the biggest saving grace for the XBOX at the moment is the exclusivety of its top games: HALO, JSRF, Oddwolrd etc
    If they come out on the other consoles, or even the PC, then I think the XBOX could have problems.
     
  28. spikeyboyo

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    Thats just like saying a Ferrari blows a mini out of the water - Your PC cost probs near £1,500 to £2,000 - Xbox price £199

    You could also go on to compare like for like - Xbox blows PS2 out of the water (Graphics and power wise) Price £199 each.


    Spike
     
  29. Sinzer

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    Regardless of pedantics and I have already pointed out the difference in price, the bottom line is that if you have the cash to feed it, then a top of the range ninja PC will ALWAYS kill the console (assuming we only include genres that the PC competes in :p ). The comparision was in terms of games, I prefer Jedi Knight 2, the gameplay and graphics (on my PC hehe) blow the X-Box (Halo) out of the water, I should have changed it to that. Counter-Strike blows Halo out of the water even on a low spec PC, purely due to the gameplay.

    I am not sure what your bias against PCs are I only mentioned it because they are a gaming platform and for £700-800 you can get a decent machine, which will compete with the consoles very well on like for like games and also offers far more exclusivity than any console for the genres it supports. Someone asked what they should get they did not lay down budgets or say I don't want a PC, they may have never considered the PC as a gaming machine (despite every gaming store having half the floorspace dedicated to PC games).

    I am a big console fan, played/owned/emulated nearly every console out there, I still play SNES games on my PC (can't be bothered to get my snes out of the attic), Advance Wars on my GBA has clocked in some serious hours now. I am quite happy to admit that I am not an X-Box fanboy, IMO it is not a console simply a PC in japanese clothing.

    I like my console for console games, X-Box does not seem to offer that, whereas the PS2 and GC do.
     
  30. NeoBlade

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    Indeed it does, but then if you only want great graphics then the PC is the only way forward. The debate here was about videogames only, regardless of polygon pushing power and format.

    Everyone in the world knows that a PC will be better technically if you're willing to pay around 4x as much as your console. Even more so if you give it a bigger budget. All consoles and the PC has their own advantages when it comes to gaming and I often find it amusing that people tend to back one format, and one format only for dear life. Sure its fair enough if you haven't got the cash to own two or more consoles, but there doesn't need to be a bias as the facts are there for all to see. Then again, there are plenty of Sega/Nintendo/Sony/Microsoft fanboys out there that just don't give a damn.

    IMO the SNES is still the console to beat, top graphics with many exclusive games and great gameplay. You couldn't find too many classics like FF3, Chrono Trigger, Seiken Densetsu III, Mairo World, Yoshi's Island, Street Fighter etc on other formats.

    Advance Wars is pretty sweet, have you tried Fire Emblem? Nintendo should release this game in the US and Europe because Advance Wars was like a watered down version of Fire Emblem in many respects.

    Anyways I think I stated on my long post that the Gamecube, PC and PS2 all had enough unique games to themselves as well as huge 3rd party support... So the Xbox wasn't for me just yet because it can't offer anything new into the mix. Sure theres Halo, but what else?
     

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