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Splitting RGB to get upstairs!

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by JiMbOb_74, Jun 20, 2004.

  1. JiMbOb_74

    JiMbOb_74
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    I am trying to get my sky+ wired up to another tv in my bedroom. It already feeds my 42" pana plasma downstairs.

    I have run a cable up to the bedroom where i have a remote eye for controlling the channels. I want to know how I can connect the rgb from the sky+ to my sony 24" w/screen CRT. when I connect a composite signal the picture on the plasma gets darker. I presume this is because the signal is shared... What cables do i need for the rgb to be passed and also will i need some sort of signal amp.

    Thanks for any help

    James
     
  2. PC Nut

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    Try one of these

    Various devices to suit connectivity issues whilst trying to contain picture degredation. Hope this helps
     
  3. noidea

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    I've been having similar issues. The best solution i found is to connect the RGB cable from the sky box to the rgb to s-video converter in the above link. this box gives one rgb out and one s-video out without compromising picture (you leave the composite scart on the sky box empty). There may be amps that will allow you 2 rgb outputs from one input, but I haven't seen any, and certainly not any as recommended as the JS Technology boxes
     
  4. JiMbOb_74

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    MMMM...had a look and they dont do what i need
    I dont want to use S-video cos the picture is rubbish I really want an RGB amplifier or something like.

    My sky+ is already being converted from RGB to component for my plasma through the switching in my denon 3802...

    I will keep looking....
     
  5. PC Nut

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    Could get expensive this, splitting a component output and reampliffing with 3xcable run to crt (does the CRT have a component input) if so one of these should do it HERE :smashin:


    If not you will need a rgb scart splitter with a long scart to your phony crt and a scart to component converter :smashin:
     
  6. MAW

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    Wot on earth makes you say S-video is rubbish!!!! It's good enough for anything sub 32" without a 2nd thought. Yes, component is better, but the difference is relatively much less than s-video versus composite.
     
  7. JiMbOb_74

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    I have a panasonic 42" plasma and S-video is not worth bothering with. I read in what hifi a few times that they say its as good as rgb....well i think they should have gone to specsavers....

    Until I can find an rgb amp/splitter i will have to put up with RF which is by far the worst picture...!!!

    I have managed to get a 10m long optical upstairs so the sounds ok!

    P.S. anyone got a cheap denon amp for sale? a 1802 or 1803 would do...!
     
  8. gizlaroc

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    You say however that your denon is converting RGB to component? you sure? or do you mean you are converting the RGB to component and then using your denon to switch.

    The S-video from a JS converter will be very close to the RGB from sky, I actually prefered it to component conversion when I was using a quadscan scaler into my CRT.
     
  9. MAW

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    Jimbob, there's something wrong in your system if s-video is that bad. I promise you s-video is almost indistinguishable from RGB, certainly with a PW6, the RGB scart is a bit weak, frequently s-vid is much better. Look for your problem before writing it off.
     
  10. Starburst

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    The s-video from the SKY+ would be ideal to feed the 24" CRT in the bedroom leaving the RGB scart from the SKY+ to feed the plasma I would have thought.
    Certainly seems a far more cost effective solution then trying to find a means to split a SKY+ RGB output and retain the quality.
     
  11. JiMbOb_74

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    There is nothing wrong with my system
    The way I see it is

    RF- Is the worst pic
    Composite - Better but still not good
    S-Video - Bit better but still not very good- unless u read what hifi
    RGB- Better picture but no progressive scan
    Component - Similar to RGB but progressive...

    So if I am wrong please explain how S-video can be anywhere near Component? I am using a pana 42" plasma with a denon 2900 on prog scan!
     
  12. Liam @ Prog AV

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    We'll have to agree to disagree here JiMbOb but i'm well and truly with MAW on this, s-video will look a little "softer" than RGB converted to component and fed to the plasma, but on your CRT I really doubt you would find a noticeable difference whatsoever. And in some cases S-Video has outperformed RGB with CRT setups although this is very dependant on both source output quality and the displays internals rather than one approach being "theoretically" better than t'other :lesson:

    However, if you are after a splitter we do an RGB scart DA for 70 quid in the accessories section of our website :D
     
  13. Joe Fernand

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    JimBoB_47

    How far is the cable run from the SKY+ box to the Bedroom TV?

    I must say I too am surprised your so adamant that S-Video out of 'YOUR' SKY+ box is so bad and not relevant for use with your Bedroom TV.

    Some folk with a SKY+ box directly connected to a 42" Plasma would be hard pushed to tell if you switched between the S-Video input and the RGB converted to YUV input - it could be of course that you have a duff S-Video out on your Digibox.

    If you want a decent RGB+Composite video signal splitter that wont wreck the signals going to both devices it is possible - though not that inexpensive; a decent RGB distribution amp with the ability to drive long cables will set you back the best part of £400.00.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  14. JiMbOb_74

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    I agree with you it may be worth using s-video to feed the 24"crt but doesnt it need to be selected on sky+ or can you use both.

    I however disagree over the matter of s-video... A tv picture is made up of erm isnt it Red Green and Blue so why would mixing the colour and black elements of the picture be better than using a pure signal of all three to the relevant pixels work better...

    You dont see dvd players using S-video output as a selling feature do you!? But hey if you all prefer S-video to RGB or component then...

    If I am wrong will someone tell me why...
     
  15. MAW

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    It's active all the time, the s-vid output. Nobody has said it's intrinsically better than YUV or RGB, just that on many, if not most, displays, it's very hard to see the differences. S-video combines the colour information, but has separate synch and btightness, it's composite where it's all down the 1 wire. This can be seen to be less good on anything more than a 14" portable. I still say there's something wrong somewhere if you really think it's bad. Crap cable, dry joint, plasma setup, etc.
     
  16. Liam @ Prog AV

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    JiMbOb you do seem to be discussing the "theoretical" rather than the practical differences between s-video and other signal types. However, you are still in essence wrong. S-Video is like component video down two lines instead of three, component is also black and white (Luminance) and colour information (Chrominance) only unlike s-video the chrominance is split into red chrominance and blue chrominance rather than just a general chrominance stream. In both cases (svhs and yuv) the sync pulse is sent down the luminance stream.

    A picture is often made up of red, white and blue but on a DVD disc it is usually stored as component (chrominance and luminance) and i'm pretty sure that MPEG compression used in Sky is also component type information....

    I'm really not trying to be argumentative mate it's just that in practice s-video is often no better than component with certain displays, smaller displays, crappy DVD players with naff component outputs etc. It is often preferred over RGB on Sky since the "softness" somewhat hides the MPEG compression artefacts inherent in the signal.

    I think DVD players only advertise component as a "feature" since it is a relatively new buzzword and the less experienced would see that as a more of a "feature" than it really is. A bit like the way DVD players advertised Dolby Digital and DTS, you pretty much gotta have it but was it really worth plastering all over the box as a main selling point!!!

    Anyway there's a small FAQ section on our site with more info on signals etc if you'd like to give it a quick read over. You may find some of it of interest.
     
  17. Joe Fernand

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    Hello JiMbob_74

    Again no one has said S-Video is as good as or equal to RGB+C, RGBHV or YUV (what you call Component!).

    What we have all said is that for use on a 24" CRT TV in your bedroom it would seem to all of us who install TV's, Displays, Projectors etc on a daily basis that for 99% of people the S-Video out from a SKY+ Digibox will more than meet expectation levels.

    Given the budget and time then yes RGB+C to your Bedroom TV SHOULD look better than S-Video to you Bedroom TV - that's assuming the Bedroom TV has a decent RGB decoder on-board; not always the case and in many TV's the S-Video decoder is better than the RGB decoder.

    Also the SCART RGB+C output of your Digibox is not designed to 'drive' long video cables so again you may have to revert to using expensive amplification and or signal distribution to get the RGB signal to your TV.

    Personally I'd put a second SKY box in the bedroom :)

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  18. gizlaroc

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    A second subscription is £10 a month, it would cost you the equivelent of around 3 -4 years of a second subscription to get a decent RGB amplifier to feed your second room.

    As Joe says, get a second box ;)
     
  19. JiMbOb_74

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    This is my last post on this subject

    S-Video is NOWHERE NEAR as good as RGB or Component.Please someone tell these so-called retailers that! Come on the BBC uses component for there cameras... Not s-video
    There is nothing wrong with my setup/dry joints mis-informed shop keepers...

    I can see the difference and like I said if you cant go to specsavers

    Anyone else want to join the s-video versus RGB arguement. It sounds like someones sold stuff to people telling them that s-video is a good use of a plasma.... dont think so...
     
  20. JiMbOb_74

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    just remembered on s-video you get 'cross hatching' on closs paterns like jackets/ties etc u dont get this on rgb or component.also I like to see all the detail on the picture even if you can see the digital compression artefacts etc.... Would you buy a hifi that hid problems with the sound recordings... One last thing I DONT have a crap dvd player or plasma so I know whats what. I have a denon 2900 dvd with pal progressive into a panasonic 42" straight into the component in(thats what it says on the input...so dont patronise ) and the picture is excellent
     
  21. Joe Fernand

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    JiMbob_74

    I think its e-sure that run the adds that say 'calm down my dear!' :)

    Blimey a bit hot under the collar about video signals or wot!!!

    OK you win - me, Liam and MAW are all off to our respective local Opticians in the morning (mind you I don't know why I have to go the Nikon Lenses in my spec's cost more than your DVD player) :) (that was meant as a joke - but then again they did cost me £800).

    Just before we get off the video signal 'discussions' can I note that S-Video, RGB and YUV are all Component video signals - no matter what the Panasonic label says

    Can I also note that YUV (what you call Component) can be Interlaced or Progressive.

    Have you seen the Footie this month - the BEEB will use any old bit of wire for cameras if pushed.

    Has a single one of us 'shopkeepers' (who have TRIED to be helpful)suggested once that you should use S-Video into your Plasma - I think your question was about getting a signal into your bedroom TV.

    If you want to spend upwards of £400 getting your RGB signal split to two displays without killing the signal quality to your Plasma then we have products in stock for immediate dispatch via an overnight courier (http://www.zektor.com/hds42/index.htm ) - it just seems a touch OTT to us 'shopkeepers' to spend that sort of money when there seems to be a viable alternative that at worst will cost you the price of a decent S-Video cable.

    Best regards

    Joe

    PS I don't think anyone suggested you had an inferior DVD or Display - it was never asked about.
     
  22. gizlaroc

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    And if you want a Zektor HDS4.2 I have a spare going cheap ;)

    You are winding us up here aren't you ??

    I have to say that on my second sky+ box the RGB is not that hot, it seems to pick up interference, however the S-video does not.

    I have a philips set in our bedroom, one of the silver shadow models, and that does a far better job with S-video than RGB, but then I can adjust the contrast etc. when in RGB mode so at some point it is converting it to S anyway to allow me to do this, so that is probably why it handles S better.
     
  23. MAW

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    As lonf as money is no object, there is a kind offer from Gizlaroc. You can either run a 10m component cable up to the bedroom, or send it on cat.5e with suitable adapters, we do that a lot. CRT will no doubt not accept YUV, so you could convert that back to RGB fairly losslessly in the bedroom. But if I were you I'd just stick to the RF, as the expense of doing this properly is OTT, and the method suggested at £50 or so is little better.


    PS 'cross hatching' pattern often seen on composite, Just switched my projector to s-video instead of DVI-D from iscan pro, and certainly it's not as good, but at 8ft across I see no cross hatching on anything.
     
  24. Jules Tohpipi

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    Crikey JimBOB my lad. You need to chill dude !

    I read this thread because I'm interested in splitting off my SKY+ signal into the conservatory, but I'm worried about picture degradation to my Pioneer 434 plasma also. (I already have a second box in the bedroom, feeding my Pana CRT beautifully with an RGB signal). I've found the contributions from the 'shopkeepers' very informed and balanced on this subject - and it's probably going to end up saving me some money too.

    Your petty outburst is unbelievable. Saying What Hi-Fi are morons, saying retailers are morons, and saying that the people who disagree with you here are morons. Everyone morons !? Except you ! Incredible. Let me tell you something: the only thing you've proven here is that it's you who are a bit strange.

    Oh, and as forum style thing, if you want to go attack someone in print then go learn some spelling, grammar, and punctuation. Your weapons are your words and you, my friend, have a tickling stick in your hand. Ha !

    As an unbiased observer here, I find your childish outburst - to such politely put advice - quite amazing. And trust me, I for one have not come out of this thinking that it's you who's the smart one here....
     
  25. symanski

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    We used to do a product callled the "Acitve Video Buffer" which would have been ideal for this application. It gave you two perfect copies of the input, RGB or S-Video or Composite. It's something that I think is still required in the market, but we had to stop it because of one of the components being in short supply.

    Liam,
    DVD is stored as MPEG, as is Sky's transmissions. It's essentially a black&white image with a colour overlay, just as Component and S-Video are. In the digital world, you can store signals without them degrading any further after the initial conversion. In the analogue world things are a bit different. Component video is superior to S-Video because you've not had to modulate the colour difference signals. To you and I, it means more control over colour bleeding and therefore a better picture.

    There's a technical document in my website which covers the relationship between all the video signals. Only slightly technical! Excellent if you can't get to sleep at night too....

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  26. JiMbOb_74

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    Finally !

    :thumbsup: Someone who knows what they are talking about! :thumbsup: As far as my spelling or punctuation goes I dont give a fudge I was just trying to get a point across.

    All that I have said throughout was S-video into my plasma(panasonic) makes the picture look like someone from currys wired it...

    I have sorted the splitting of the picture now... I am not bothering ... beacause I dont want to degrade the picture into my plasma..

    The signal from my sky+ is into a component convertor...then into my denon 3802 (only for switching....) then into the plasma..The picture on a good signal can be excellent.As for wanting to use S-video to blur the image to hide the digital artefacts...That to me is stupid...Why spend all that money on a hi-resolution plasma to blur the image ... come on shopkeepers. And as for What (friendliest rep this month)HI FI magazine telling people that S-Video is superior I think they should refund the cost of the magazine to anybody silly enough to have taken there advice.

    So to finish my rant (excuse my childishness but I for one know a bad picture when my eyes see it)

    Thanks to Dr. John Sim for making an informed(officially) and unbiased point

    Good night
     
  27. Joe Fernand

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    JimBob_74

    If you don't want to degrade the picture into your Plasma why are you down converting RGB+C to YUV - its inferior; and then your passing it through an OK switch (AVR-3802).

    I do hope your not passing the YUV from your DVD player through the AVR-3802 - seems odd for such a perfectionist!!

    And again you asked about getting an image to your Bedroom TV not to your Plasma - you keep banging on about S-Video not being so hot on your Plasma. Why! No one suggested it was.

    Anyway your sorted now and obviously happy that your way superior to all of us Shopkeepers :)

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  28. MAW

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    I think if you spoke to Dr Sim, as many of us have, you'd find he makes an s-video converter, which is frequently used in your, and other higher quality applications, and he'd be the one to say 'don't write off the s-video option'. John, how much was the active video buffer then? And what happens to an RGB signal from it at 10m? The big issue here really is not the quality of the signal as it is sent, but what arrives at the other end. RGB is simply not that good at going 10m, and the bits to make it happen are expensive. YUV is better at this, and cheaper to do, but no doubt the makers of a 24" TV have not offered this option, as they think s-video is good enough. There is a time and place for video perfection, and if you want it upstairs, the cheapest way to achieve it is back to what Joe suggested way back, to get a 2nd box. I don't see that Dr Sim has said anything new here, simply what we all know, in a free world YUV is better than s-video. We were discussing a practical solution to your problem, in fact attempting to help you out for free. Thankfully, ungrateful b****s are a rarity on this forum.
     
  29. gizlaroc

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    JiMbOb_74, I suggest you sign up on this forum under another name and start over, you are the most ignorant person I have yet to see on this forum in the 3 years I have been popping in and out.
    Why are you arguing with everyone who is trying to help solve a problem you have? Knowledge, gained through experience, is being given to you and you are willfuly neglecting it rather than trying to find out more to help your situation.

    Think in future why people would bother spend time in writing a reply to your problem, and don't spit it back in their face, or simply do what you want to do and don't ask for help in the first place.
     
  30. JiMbOb_74

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    I am sorry but all I was trying to do was get an answer to a simple question and everbody off here who call themselves 'experts' have done is confuse the matter. I wanted to know if i could split and RGB signal... I never wanted to take an s-video picture however good or bad to my tv.... Then I got lots of people with stupid things to say about the advantages of s-video.So read back through the threads. I feel that I have been proved right and the shop keepers have been put in there place.

    Or should I start a poll on who believes s-video is better than rgb....
     

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