Spiderman + 12??

Discussion in 'TV Show Forum' started by bertha, May 16, 2002.

  1. bertha

    bertha
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    Hello - when getting the tickets in for SW:AOTC (tomorow night) - I asked the aldy what the rating would be for Spiderman - it might be a 15 but more than likely a 12- was the reply...my son (aged 8 almost 9) has been talking about this film for at least a year now & he is totally gutted - my brother went to see it in Canada & said that no way was it any scarier/gorier than LOTR which was a pg (with a warning) - so what do you reckon am I going to have to be an irresponsible parent & sneak my wee boy into see it..or am I fretting for nowt?


    Cheers
    Berth:confused:
     
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  3. gene brewer

    gene brewer
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    I can't wait to see this film! The fact that it has Kirsten Dunst in it has nothing to do with my anticipation! (honest :D )

    Sorry that your kid cannot see it bertha, I say stick him on a false beard and sunglasses and go for it!! :D :D ;)
     
  4. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Spiderman is certainly not scary but perhaps a bit more violent, not really a kids-only movie.
    Thus I would not recommend to show it to your kid, unless you think he is mature enough though normally I do object against taking underaged into rated movies (quite a common sight in Asia where nobody seems to care, neither the cinema operator, not the authorities nor the parents).
     
  5. encaser

    encaser
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    The US lot:
    MPAA: Rated PG-13 for stylized violence and action.

    I agree to taking him because let's face it, it'll be all speeded up, comic stylie 'violence' and your son will no doubt just think wow. I don't presume to know better than you by the way with regard your parenting! Just thought, has he seen the newer Batman stuff or other such films? Perhaps you could base your choice on his reactions to them - ooh, also your wife's thoughts so you don't get in trouble too?! ;)
     
  6. juboy

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    I really don't think taking an 8 year old to see Spiderman will do him/her any damage.

    In fact the only likely damage will be to your wallet;)
     
  7. Bonesy

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    yeah, but what about the 3-way oral sex scene - won't that be damaging to your 8 yr old?
     
  8. Bonesy

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    Oh, sorry - wrong film.:blush:
     
  9. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Hi Bertha sorry to here you problem, I suppose it is of small consolation if you do not get your son in to see the film, but have you got him into reading the comics? It is a great way to get children to read regular.
     
  10. squid

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    i don't realy see any difernce in content to any other similar film like batman and the like .

    there is much more violence on cartoon network


    my six year old girl and ten year old son have watched it and i don't see anything wrong with it at all
     
  11. john87

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    Sneak them in :cool:
     
  12. stalefish

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    Film is indeed going to be a 12 cert..

    My better half works for Sony Pictures (Columbia)
    So I saw the movie about 3 weeks ago (smug?.... me!?)
    And I can tell all that the 12 cert is definitley justified!
     
  13. Reiner

    Reiner
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    i don't realy see any difernce in content to any other similar film like batman and the like .

    Does that particular reason justify to show this kind of movies to anyone? :confused:


    there is much more violence on cartoon network

    Yeah, but it's a cartoon and thus very different - IMHO.

    I don't think it's fair to compare a cartoon to a real people movie, children may understand that they cannot do the things they see in cartoons but might want to copy what they see in real movies or get shocked by the content as they cannot make out the difference between real life and acting / SFX.
     
  14. encaser

    encaser
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    Were that true Reiner then why are some cartoons or games rated? There are studies of children's behaviour whilst watching cartoons which later show some of them emulating characters behaviour - agressive or 'cuddly'. And, many parents will confirm incidents first hand. If the distinction were so easy to make I'd imagine many adult Manga and anime fans would dry up. Who hasn't seen a cartoon and had the "Hi, yah", "Ooh that's gotta hurt" and/or "They look sexy even though an animated character" thought - the imagination blends us, which is no doubt why we enjoy many media forms, beit at child and/or adulthood.
    In contrast, the guy is 'Spider Man' 'only' when he's dressed so, which may enhance the chances of a child drawing the line. Plus Bertha's son will be with him and not alone in front of the tv, so he'll be there to explain/remove if necessary. Much better IMHO
     
  15. squid

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    i watch stuff first befor i let my kids near it . if i find it unsutable then they don't watch it .

    i think the whole rating system is a pile of crap personaly. it should be up to the parents to deside what is and is'nt any good for are kids . my kids know when somthing is and is'nt real .

    they know when they watch the news that the people laying on the flor covered in blood are not gona get up . they allso know that on a film it is'nt real so they can enjoy it . all that is needed is to talk to kids and explain things . they understand more than they are given credit for .

    becous of this my son tends to dislike anything based on a true story . he watched titanic and had to leave the room when the ship was going to sink . he did'nt like it becouse he new people were going to die and that it had been real .

    i watched a lot of nasty stuff when i was a kid and would'nt let my kids see that sort of thing . this sort of thing though i don't see the problem with

    so you are saying a man with spider powers who can walk up a wall is a lot more real than a cartoon

    if kids did'nt understand what they are seeing on screen was'nt real then i would be more inclined to think it would be the other way around . if somone has a house fall on the ect in as toon they get up . in a film they tend to get up a lot less . if i was young and impresionable i know which i would rather copy

    i know we have to protect are children but i do think that there is a lot of overprotection going on . kids see things if we want them to or not i would just rather them see things when i am around so i can talk to them about it

    if i don't want them tom watch a film i don't just say "you can't watch it your too young " instead i give em an idear of what the films about by telling them what's in it . then they don't tend to want to watch it . i think that better than leaving them thinking it's only for adults . that only leads to them wanting it more if you ask me


    you may think i am wrong and wish to bring up your kids diferently but that should be your right . we all do what we think right for are kids, it dos'nt make any of us more wrong or right
     
  16. Reiner

    Reiner
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    Were that true Reiner then why are some cartoons or games rated?

    When I said "cartoons" I meant cartoons for kids - thought that would have been clear!? :confused:


    I think you can clearly make a difference between adult cartoons (incl. Anime/Manga) and those for kids. Or do you think it is ok to show a porn cartoon to kids because it's "just a cartoon" and thus doesn't relate to the "real life"?

    As for the games it also depends on the content IMHO - a shoot and kill the others (humans) is IMHO most unsuitable for certain age groups than e.g. Donkey Kong.


    There are studies of children's behaviour whilst watching cartoons which later show some of them emulating characters behaviour - agressive or 'cuddly'

    Do you see me running around and chooping people into pieces ala Tom & Jerry which I used to watch when I was a kid? ;)

    I don't think so. And if they indeed emulate those characters than it just confirms that this program was not suitable for them (either wrong age group or totally unsuitable for children) or they were not supervised properly.

    so you are saying a man with spider powers who can walk up a wall is a lot more real than a cartoon

    No, you missed the point totally: It's not about one character but the content of the movie.
    And surely there are cases where kids have tried to emlulate their superheros and got hurt or worst. :(

    SPOILER ahead:

    If your kid is a smart as you say it will easily figure that the Green Goblin is just a man in a costume.
    And when he get's smashed to death by his flying machine it's the man inside who get's hurt or dies, not a cartoon character, a roboter, alien or else - it's a human being.
    And I am not sure if a 8 year old can easily cope with that.

    SPOILER end.

    we all do what we think right for are kids, it dos'nt make any of us more wrong or right

    That's what all parents do and not always suceed at. Having been a kid myself I speak from experience. ;)


    @all
    I know it's not a plain black and white scenario and the rating system isn't perfect but IMHO it makes a good guideline.
    Of course it's up to you if you allow your children to see certain programs or play otherwise forbidden computer games, but maybe there is a reason behind all that.
    And I am not accusing anyone here of being a bad parent either, just saying that I might not allow my kids to do so.
     
  17. squid

    squid
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    yes but he allso knows that that man is an actor and is not realy geting smashed .

    i think this all depends on the child though . if you have a child that you know tends to copy these things then keep them away from it . i still think that the best way to go is to educate kids . i think making of ducumentarys are perfect to show kids what a film realy is .

    show them the safty gear that they use on the stunts ect .

    if you teach kids about danger and tell them what happens if they realy jump off a roof then they won't do it .

    an example of this . the other day we had a pan fire i had poped out in the garden and forgor about a pan . my 6 year old daughter came in the kitchen . she watches a lot of fireman sam . did she try and put the fire out becouse she had seen it on tv . no she ran right out of the kitchen to get her mum who putout the fire

    i may be wrong but i do think that eduction is better than restriction . i'm not stupid though i don't let them just watch anything . i think though that the 12 cert is stupid though and that this stuff should realy be pg so the parents can deside.

    i'm not saying put an end to all certification . i know some prents are thick ( i know a few). i have no problem with 15 and 18 ( i do think that if somthing is 18 it should remane uncencored though) i just don't see why the 12 cert was ever put in place . if a film is below a 15 , i have seen it .then as far as i am conserned it is up to me
     
  18. Guest

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    I am the only censor of what my kids can and cant watch.

    I mean theres 12 year old kids out there more balanced than some of the over 18`s-but the over 18`s are allowed to watch anything they like!

    If someones two sandwiches short of a lunchbox they may well be influenced by what they see-whatever their age...

    Its some of these nutters that are going out getting hold of the kids that arnt allowed to watch Spiderman-dont make sense does it?

    Being a good parent does not mean being prohibitive of anything tricky-it means explaining it correctly...

    Kids taught right from wrong and brought up in a balanced,caring enviroment will NOT go and kick the **** out of a rabbit just cos wily coyote does it-no more than they will try and climb a wall because Spiderman has!

    Its always seemed weird to me that you cant watch the sex act on t.v. before 9pm...BUT WHOLESALE MURDER AND VIOLENCE IS ALLOWED??????

    Your not allowed to see someones genitalia ..BUT...you can watch someone having their head chopped off????????

    Now excuse me-but if my kids were going to draw on anything they watched-I would rather it be loving and natural-than harming and unnatural...

    Its the old make love not war adage I guess...certainly I have found that sometimes forbidden fruit tastes sweeter and the WORST thing you can do sometimes,is tell a kid is not to do it-without adequate explanation..
    Doug..;)
     
  19. squid

    squid
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    well said doug :)
     
  20. bertha

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    heyhey...interesting the way a little question can grow arms and legs..I've decided that I'm going to sneak my wee boy into see the film...he has a mature outlook towards film & films that I have allowed him to watch that are for the older kid I've show him the 'making of...' (where possible) on the dvd so that he can see how things are created & how to define between fantasy & make-believe and rubber creatures & computer generated whathavyous..this doesn't mean I let him watch anything I'm careful about bad language, gore & rumpy pumpy - but he loves films like James Bond, Jaws & Zorro & so on - basically the same kind of stuff I used to eagerly scan the Christmas Radio Times for when I was a youngun..so it's off to the local joke shop for a Scouser wig & moustache combo for little Bertha jr & Spidey here we come...

    cheers all..

    Berth
     
  21. encaser

    encaser
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    Reiner, when I used Anime and Manga as examples I was etching out that cartoons can and do have power of pursuasion even to the adult mind. I never said all children, or adults for that matter, are automotons to input but that they can influence childrens behaviour - as has been shown in studies. In fact who hasn't been in school as a child and had other kids or themselves re-enacting some scene from whatever? Or look at the content of cartoons on the various networks and there are some with quite surprising violence/scare content. To say Tom and Jerry never afected me so all childrens cartoons are ok is a little narrow minded and contradictory/ironic to then say if children emulate the media it wasn't suitable or it's the parents fault for poor supervision!? No offence intended, Reiner, so put the axe down, step away from the axe...;)
    I think the only safe thing to say is that this thread brings home the difficulties of cencorship for whom ever it is that has to make a choice, beit for themselves or others.
     
  22. Seany boy!!!

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    Have you ever seen kids trying to copy the Rock? trying to do body slams, head locks, the lot. We all tried to do a bit of bruce lee (chuck myself) when we were kids.I really thought spider man would have been a pg, I thought LOTR should have been a 12 though.
     
  23. Guest

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    I think there is a BIG difference between kids acting out scenes harmlessly in the playground and actually lobbing themselves off a building cos Superman did it...

    I used to play "war" at Juniors-but never got a gun and ACTUALLY shot someone!!

    We are disrespecting the intelligence of our own offspring -and our own guidance and explanatory techniques if we think kids will emulate to the letter everything they see...

    These so called studies are twaddle-how can anyone say that some evil kid who stabbed someone to death-was influenced by Chuckys Revenge or whatever..

    Ive watched numerous horror films from the age of 10-and I aint stabbed anyone yet...

    It comes down to what type of person you are-if you know the difference between right and wrong-if you have been brought up ina loving enviroment-all the things that mould who we are..

    We all have the capacity to be good or bad-people with a brain and a good upbringing tend to have a conscience...the unfortunates who do not have this tend not to..with some its a cry for attention-or an expression of anger at a world they think hates them...

    But most times,the people who commit heinous acts are more likely to have done it because of deficiencies in their life/psyche- of some sort...NOT because they watched a bloody video...
    Doug;) ;)
     
  24. encaser

    encaser
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    Nice bit of nurture pop-psychology doug. If only it were so simple, then we could just lock up all the unfortunates and eliminate the risk and have another go at the abused for being abused:p.
    Most people are not predisposed to commit vile acts but some are regardless of upbringing. And even 'good' people can and do commit harsh acts though they know they shouldn't.
    But I agree that various media forms get scape goated, just like other periodic groups/cohorts/animals/religions etc. to explain what seems unexplicable, or rather that which people need to pigeon hole - and then the press can cause another moral panic.:mad:
    No total answer since we first crawled about and ****ted some poor misfortunate 2001 style:eek:


    P.S. this aint a personal attack on you doug;)
    Now where'd I puts me Texas Chainsaw Massacre fil'um...
     
  25. Seany boy!!!

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    I think there has been injuries through kids trying to copy the moves of WWF, and reports of bully's trying it out on younger children in the playground.
     
  26. Guest

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    A kid (about 14) in America performed a "Stone cold Stunner" on a young neighbour and killed her, he was charged with murder. But I doubt this is the first time this has happened, that's why the WWF (sorry WWE) put up all those warnings.

    I personally think that whether or not violence in the media effects children's lives depends on how mature and well balanced they are, and that has nothing to do with age). Those evil ******** that tortured and killed Jamie Bulger, where just plain evil from the start (child's play 3 didn't play a part in their decision to kill that poor toddler).
     
  27. squid

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    people are allways trying to find somthing to blame for these things .

    we find it very hard to beleive that a person co do somthing so evil without outside influance . the truth is though that some people are pure evil and there is no way of getting around that . they will do these things no mater what they do or don't watch


    i don't know how they thought that the Bulger killing had anything to do with childs play . those boys were just evil plane and simple. you don't watch a film aand say "that looks good lets go kill a child" we can never realy tell what was going through there minds . to even think about such an act though, that mind has to be sick to the core .

    a normal person watches a film like this and crings they don't use them to get tips on killing

    through are whole history there have been people that have done sick things . long befor film was invented people did things to each other so nasty that they would be cut from a film .

    evil is as evil does
     
  28. juboy

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    "i don't know how they thought that the Bulger killing had anything to do with childs play."

    Censorship is an area I have a lot of interest and experience in and I've researched a lot of this stuff ad nauseum.

    An interesting FACT about the Bulger case is that the Daily Mail ran a story claiming a link between Child's Play and the two real life child killers.

    They claimed that the two had watched the film repeatedly and had therefore been influenced by it (Oh yeah, and the 3ft high, orange haired homicidal doll in it of course).

    The judge of the trial saw this article and brought it up in court, thus arriving at a non-official but nevertheless virtual ban on the film.

    Around 4 months later it was reported by police investigating the crime that niether of the two children had EVER seen the film and that their parents had never owned it and did NOT (as the Mail claimed) have a copy of it in their homes.

    Still, as with most things censorship related, why would they let the facts make any difference to a 'juicy' story?

    Even if you believe that films/TV etc. can influence children, they would still on some level *want* to carry out their actions... is that not more worrying than any film could ever be?

    We should address why someone wants to go to their school and murder 17 people, not what they may have been watching/playing/listening to a couple of hours prior to doing it.

    Censorship is about people lying to you... do you like being lied to? Don't be fooled into thinking groups like Mediawatch are crackpots... although there's only a few of them, they do organise and lobby well for their cause.

    All it takes is for sensible people to stand by and do nothing for them to further their insidious cause.

    More freedom, not less, is the only way forward!

    (Sorry for the rant, I just hate people who don't know me telling me I shouldn't do things that don't concern them or that they don't understand/like... live and let live I say)
     
  29. Guest

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    suprise suprise that the daily mail started that one. Christopher Tookey (the reationairy loony) has a lot to answer for, he and his paper are about as irresponsible as they come. Typical example of the media stamping up and down on a subject without any real thought or sense of balance.

    incidentally it was the distributors (warner i think) who decided it would be best to withdraw the title from sale shortly after its involvement was identified. don't think it was selling that well anyway.
     
  30. juboy

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    The distributors are given no choice in many instances, so it's a little unfair to claim it was done because they may have felt they needed to exercise some sort of self-censorship.

    It's a little like when the BBFC state that the distributors make cuts to their own films in order to gain a certain certificate. Yes, technically correct but they only do so when the BBFC basically say 'Do it, or don't get a release'.

    You may also be surprised to learn that, sales wise, the four Child's Play videos/DVDs were big sellers for R/18 rated films and continue to be so today.

    Think of it this way... if these films REALLY were to blame for the death of a real life child, how come you can go buy them in any HMV and watch them occasionally on Sky?

    If something is 'sick, evil and likely to corrupt or influence' at one point in time, it must surely be so forever, otherwise it never really was in the first place.

    So how come it's now 'alright' for previously banned films to be viewed? Because there was never anything wrong with them in the first place, that's why.
     

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