Speed Camera, what evidence can I ask for?

Discussion in 'Motoring' started by Cocksure, May 13, 2017.

Tags:
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    My parents received a letter yesterday asking who the driver of the van was that was caught on camera last week (which has been returned).

    Whilst I am waiting for them to contact me directly, I am trying to work out what evidence I'm allowed to see before I plead.

    I'm not asking because I'm looking for legal reasons to challenge it, but rather because I simple don't remember driving on the road on the day in question so have no idea if I was or wasn't speeding.

    Does anyone know?
     
  2. phil t

    phil t
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,153
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Hook, Chessington, Surrey
    Ratings:
    +308
    May have changed, but there is normally a notice of intent to prosecute, where you have to state who was driving the vehicle. That's normally sent to the registered keep, who has to make the declaration of who was driving. I thought the nip contained the where and when the alleged offence occurred?

    The motoring section should give you a better answer.
     
  3. Jowsey

    Jowsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Messages:
    446
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear
    Ratings:
    +380
    Well they should give you a picture (or 2) of the vehicle and it's reg and some information like where, what date, what time, what speed your were doing and the limit that was broken etc.

    If you're aren't sure where you were that day check your emails, calls and texts for that day. See if they jog your memory.

    Failing that check your phone calendar or bank statement and see if you can start piecing together your day.

    If you had a smart phone with you and had location turned in I'm pretty sure you can dig into iphones and androids to get some daily info. But I'm not 100% in that one.

    Also, it sounds like it was a rental. So the first thing i would do is check the date of rental per the invoice for the van against the fine!

    Double also, they have a time limit if how long you can wait for the fine so keep that in mind. I want to say it's 2 weeks
     
  4. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    40,883
    Products Owned:
    10
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +14,489
    You don't remember where you were a week ago? Can you elaborate on what you mean by which has been return' does that relate to the letter or the van.

    As said the nip normally includes the evidence. Have you actually seen the letter yourself?
     
  5. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    I drive a van that is owned by a company instead of myself, so the letter asked who was the driver on the 4th of May which was myself. That's what's been sent back to them and I'm waiting now to receive the declaration notice from them.

    I drive on the road every Monday going up to work and on Friday coming back. This happened on a Thursday which has thrown me. I haven't seen the later so the date could be wrong and maybe it says the 5th which would make sense. Equally I might have driven on a section of the road on Thursday going to fetch stuff as I do a lot of driving to merchants etc.

    I normally careful watch my speed as the road is hot for cameras, but as I can't remember being on the road in question last week on that day, it's possible I didn't on the day as I had other things on my mind. I certainly don't remember seeing any mobile speed cameras last week on any day, which doesn't rule them out.

    What really gets me is it said I was doing 70 on the dual carriageway (it's 60 for my van) and I normally stay at 65 which is still speeding I'll admit. So I'm worried my speed dial may be out.

    Reason I foolishly try to clean it and knock the needle out of place. I did mention this to the Ford garage who said don't worry about it as it looks fine.

    So if I can see proof of my speeding instead of the person declaration that I was it will a) trigger my memory and b) tell me if I need to send my van off to be calibration checked.

    Hopefully that makes sense?
     
  6. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,820
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,049

    Hold on.. you cleaned your speedo and knocked the needle? That's a serious design flaw, what van is this?

    Get the waze app and see if your speedo matches what it says.

    could anyone else be driving your van if it wasn't you?

    If there's no one else who could be driving you'll just have to man up and take it. End of the day it's the risk you run when you speed.
     
  7. Jowsey

    Jowsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Messages:
    446
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear
    Ratings:
    +380

    How do you receive your instructions to go collect the stuff from the merchants? Could see what jobs/merchants you visited that day.

    Also, have a look from the collection notes/invoices/receipts of the ones you collected on that day as they probably have a date and a time stamp, at least that way you can start getting an idea of the day.

    And as above, certainly worth double checking the speedo if only so you don't start racking up fines elsewhere!

    Edit: Also, it looks like you'll be within the tolerances for a speed awareness course. Not great as they're normally a bit more expensive but will avoid the points.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  8. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,820
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,049

    Agree! Course all day long.
     
  9. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    Mk7 transit and it was a moment of stupidity :(

    The display was covered in dust so I stripped it down and cleaned it with a brush whilst carefully working around the rev counter and forgetting about the speed dial. I just had to fork out 4.5k getting the van repaired, so when ford said to replace the dial would be 500 and not to bother I readily agreed.

    I happy to plead guilty as 65 is still over, it's peace of mind I'm after.
     
  10. sparkie1984

    sparkie1984
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,820
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +3,049
    Oh right so you actually stripped it down. Was getting worried as I have the latest transit (don't know what MK that is)
    Was thinking how crap it would be if you couldn't clean it!

    How comes you had to pay for van repair if it's a company van?
     
  11. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    As daft as it might sound I would rather take the points. I normally keep close to the speed limit (if slightly over) but I would be lying if I never said I didn't go way over on the motorway.

    My fear is getting caught doing 85 on the motorway with a speed awareness course on my record would just automatically take me to getting 6 points instead of 3
     
  12. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    It's my parents company which is vat registered, so when I bought it they covered the vat which they then claimed back, and I only had to cover the rest.

    Same thing happens with repairs. It's my van in all but name so I have to cover the cost. But not having to cover the vat side of things has saved me thousands.

    In return they get to claim the vat back on the fuel for the hassle of it all. At 80 to a 100 a week in fuel cost it's a lot of money.
     
  13. ufitsy

    ufitsy
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Messages:
    3,265
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Midlands
    Ratings:
    +345
    You can check you speedo with a half decent sat nav.
     
  14. BT Bob

    BT Bob
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    2,375
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    116
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Ratings:
    +1,126
    Are you sure this is true? I did a SA course a while ago and (stupidly) got pinged again about 4 months after that :facepalm:. I got a fine (£100 IIRC, but it was the same os the cost of the course) and 3-points.
     
  15. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    40,883
    Products Owned:
    10
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +14,489
    Wowsy....So you are saying the company didn't actually buy it, yet claimed back the VAT...And you put that on a public forum...oops...
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  16. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    My dad got small fine and warning from the Environmental heath, then 3 years later broke the law again and got the book thrown at him with the plea deal being used as evidence against him.

    Different setup, but close enough to make me wary of such deals/courses
     
  17. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    The company did buy it as I paid the money to them (a loan) who then bought it from Ford. Plus naturally it is used for company purposes.

    I just happen to use it from time to time for my own use.

    All perfectly above board :)
     
  18. Jowsey

    Jowsey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2015
    Messages:
    446
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Newcastle Upon Tyne, Tyne and Wear
    Ratings:
    +380
    He isn't the registered keeper or owner of the vehicle. He even said that above. The van has been purchases by the company and is recognized as an asset by the company. He can use the van on the understanding he is responsible for all the other costs.

    A family owned SME. The above will have been dealt with through a DLA so not really an issue.
     
  19. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2003
    Messages:
    40,883
    Products Owned:
    10
    Products Wanted:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    ::1/128
    Ratings:
    +14,489
    Paperwork is one thing, the actuality is saying something else. There has been a real change in how these kind of things are being tested. "It is my van in all but name..." is quite telling of the intent under which this deal was made. "But not having to cover the VAT has saved me thousands" again a further elaboration of the true intend of the transaction. Reasonably it can be argued that it is very clear this transaction wasn't in the benefit of the Company, it was purely done for a personal benefit. Without making such statements and reasoning I would agree that if there was a Directors Loan to the company then nobody would be the wiser. That is of course if the OP is a director of that company, and didn't provide the true reason for creating that construct. This is one of those cases where avoidance very quickly turns into evasion.
     
  20. booyaka

    booyaka
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    10,892
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    .
    Ratings:
    +3,390
    Claiming Vat back on a van that isn't used by the company/individual claiming it.
    Knocking the needle of the speedo when cleaning it
    Can't remember where I was a week ago

    This sounds like a bizarre story to avoid a speeding fine!!
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  21. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    Never said I planned to. Only said why I wanted the info. The rest..... Believe or not

    As to don't remember, I do close to 450 miles a week, so it's possible I did go on the road when they say which a simple photo from them would confirm. Hardly unreasonable
     
  22. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    53,305
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Romford-ish
    Ratings:
    +33,861
    I wonder how the OP's memory would be if the letter said "The driver of this van down that road on that day was our 1,000,000th road user and has won £100k - can you just confirm it was you?" "Hmm, no I don't think so sorry - I drive that road on different days" :devil:
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • List
  23. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    53,305
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Romford-ish
    Ratings:
    +33,861
    Have you checked your phone e.g. your google travel history.
     
  24. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    53,305
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Romford-ish
    Ratings:
    +33,861
    Do you not even know if you were in possession of the Van on that day at that time?
     
  25. Cocksure

    Cocksure
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Messages:
    4,390
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +1,513
    How do you do that?

    Edit
    As to the van it was definitely me. My dad had it the week before and I remember changing vehicles with him on Monday. So yes I was the driver
     
  26. hippo99

    hippo99
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    16,226
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    163
    Ratings:
    +9,321
    Did this prize letter come in this envelope? :p
    IMG_1376.JPG
     
  27. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2005
    Messages:
    53,305
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    167
    Location:
    Romford-ish
    Ratings:
    +33,861
    On a desktop computer:
    - go to google maps
    - click the three line menu at the left of the search box
    - select your timeline:

    upload_2017-5-13_14-20-29.png
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
    • List
  28. Bryn1

    Bryn1
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    684
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Ratings:
    +150
    I think you will find that apart from the info contained in the letter (where, and when etc) that is all the evidence you will be able to get unless you flatly refuse to accept either the points or possibly the awareness course (if offered to you) pretty sure you are only entitled to things like photos etc if you plead not guilty and elect to go to court
     
  29. booyaka

    booyaka
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    10,892
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    .
    Ratings:
    +3,390
    Surely the initial letter would have indicated where and when the offence took place and at what time/speed you were caught?

    A picture of the front and rear of you own (or maybe the companies/parents) van, ain't going to help you
     
  30. wongataa

    wongataa
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2009
    Messages:
    1,584
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Ratings:
    +538
    It doesn't work like that. If you do a course you have no speeding conviction. If you get caught speeding again you get the three points. If you get caught speeding a third time it is another three points so you would then be on six. This assumes you get caught speeding before points expire and at speeds that don't involve higher penalties.

    A speed awareness course does not affect the severity of future speeding convictions. That is only down to the speed recorded during the incident and how it compares to the relevant speed limit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • List
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice