Question Specific ? re the Yamaha Direct Mode (not Pure direct)

Ightenhill

Active Member
The Direct Mode description in the manual is rather vague - all it mentions is it curs out unwanted circuitry..

I used to assume that it cut everything out including bass management (like pure) but I now see this isnt the case as if you turn the volume up the display indicates the sub is still working and I can still feel the sub(speakers set to small) .. My ? is though - has it cut out all YPAO and basically set every speaker to an identical level.. I seem to get better vocal presentation on direct than i do on "straight" which obviously uses YPAO.. Just wondered if someone had a correct answer as I seem to get various answers from google search and Yamahas full manual sheds no light on it compared to say pure direct
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
There is no DIRECT mode and the mode you reference is PURE DIRECT.

PURE DIRECT bypasses all processing not strictly required. This includes the PEQ filtering, video processing and additional DSP Program or Surround Decoder upmixing. The front panel display is also shut off and will only engage briefly if you convey an IR signal to the AV receiver such as a volume alteration.

PRE DIRECT also bypasses all bass management so speaker sizes and the associated crossover filters are not in effect.

The sub would still be engaged if the incoming audio includes a discrete LFE channel and relative to any frequencies being redirected away from speakers previously designated as being SMALL.

PURE DIRECT bypass the speaker levels or distance configurations. No mode negates these and they are always in effect.

As said, there's no DIRECT audio mode on any Yamaha AV receiver. You'd get the options of DSP PROGRAM, SURROUND DECODER modes, STRAIGHT or PURE DIRECT.

STRAIGHT simply negates and bypasses any DSP Program or Surround Decoder processing and doesn't effect the PEQ filters or bass management.

You are correct when you say that the sub icon is still shown on the display when the speaker configurations are set to SMALL though. I've no idea as to why this is because the bass management is bypassed by the PURE DIRECT mode.
 
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Ightenhill

Active Member
Direct shows on the app (think theres also a direct button on the remote and panel) - Direct (faded) appears on the display - no other options are avail whilst its in op (so you cant check what lvls are being used for speakers) - but when you turn up the volume the icons show that 5.1 etc is in use under the db lvl counter..

Nothing to do with pure direct (im used to that from the A880) - as its obvious the subs still in use (unless thats simply because sml size is called for - will have to test that - but on the A880 it turns everything off including any bass management) and the source surround bitstream is being used

Direct is def avail from d&V 485 and other models - Sure pure Direct came on V models but not D
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
No there isn't. There's no DIRECT mode indicated on the app, the remote or the front facia.

The mode you are refering to is PURE DIRECT.

Yes, the sub is indicated as being present whule the speakers are designated as being SMALL when the PURE DIRECT mode is engaged, but noting isactually directed to it by the crossovers. THe PURE DIRECT mode bypasses all bass management.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
DIRECT is specific to the models below the RXV685. It is equavalent to PURE DIRECT on those models devoid of a PURE DIRECT mode. The models with a PURE DIRECT mode do not have a DIRECT mode,

It is effectively the same thing.


I've an A1050 on which the sub icon is still shown while PURE DIRECT is engaged if speakers are configured as being SMALL and this is shown if you use the volume control, but the bass management is not actually in effect while PURE DIRECT is engaged.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
The fact that the sub icon shows up while the speakers are designated SMALL even if the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT modes are engaged isn't disputed. Regardless of this, the sub is not engaged by the bass management configurations if PURE DIRECT is engaged. Only a discrete LFE channel would engage the sub if such a mode is engaged.

The sub icon is indicated on my A1050 even if PURE DIRECT mode is engaged while portraying stereo content. The sub is not however engaged and remains dormant. Change the bass management configurations to LARGE for the speakers and the icon disappears, but the sub still remains dormant and dioesn't engage.

No idea why the icon is shown in the PURE DIRECT mode? Bass Management is bypassed by PURE DIRECT.
 
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Ightenhill

Active Member
direct mode is in the option section of the app - it is not a dsp mode on the front main page off the app..

the direct button is in the same position on a 485 as it is on the 880 but its labelled direct not pure &direct does not have the blue (blinding) led.. The sub is active on the 485 which is whats confusing me
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I know what it is.

PURE DIRECT is in the options section of the app and is where the DIRECT option would be.

IMG_0015.PNG


The 2 are basically the same thing.
 
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Ightenhill

Active Member
K I trhink Im understanding - So have I go this right - If I press Direct - And its a 5.1 or 7.1 film - I get the 5.1 or 7.1 presentation but just with no PEQ and only bass management thats forced by setting the speaker to small and specifying the 80hz (or whatever) cross over? -

What Im missing compared to standard is any room correction - lvl correction - tone ,dialog, dsp, etc etc
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The PURE DIRECT or the DIRECT mode will negate and bypass all DSP Programs, Surround DEcpder modes, the PEQ filters (YPAO room EQ correction) and the bass management. It would also turn off all additional processing not strictly required to portray the audio and or video exavtly as it was encoded.

A 5.1 or a 7.1 source would be inclusive of a .1 LFE channel that would still be sent to the sub, but stereo sources would not engage the sub due to the fact that such audio is not inclusive of a discrete LFE channel. Nether would those speakers designated as being SMALL within your setup redirect any frequencies at and below their associated croassovers to the sub.

The speaker levels and the distance configuration still remain in play though and these settings are always in effect regatdless of the mode ypu engage.
 

Ightenhill

Active Member
OK thx think I have it - only thing that baffles me is if I pull all the cables from the LRC speakers the sub is still getting some low freq that is not .1 even on direct - the sub is only connected using a sub cable to the sub out - its not using the cable that ties into the speaker outputs. Or did you mean that wont happen in stereo but it will in 5.1?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd not get anything via the sub in PURE DIRECT or DIRECT mode unless the source actually includes a discrete LFE channel (5.1 and 7.1, Atmos and DTS:X encoded audio). So the sub would only be engaged by a discrete LFE channel if the AVR is set to a DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode.

The AV receiver's speaker size and crossover filters are not in effect while the DIRECT or PURE dDIRECT modes are in use. Stereo content devoid of a discrete LFE channel will therefore not engage the sub while the AV receiver is set to its DIRECT or PURE DIRECT mode.

There's in one anomally that causes confusion with the Yamaha receiver's. As you've noted, the sub icon is still shown if speakers are configured as SMALL while using the DIRECT or PURE DIRECT modes. THis isn't however correct because the receiver is not actually using the bass management and will not output anything to that sub unless the source includes a discrete LGE channel.
 

Ightenhill

Active Member
Got all that Dante and thx for the help - Im probably over obsessing on this but I have been setting up a smaller system in the holiday cottage as we seem to spending most of our time there now.. And I just seem to get much better vocal clarity on direct than standard

I still cant work out why when I put it on direct with an 80hz and small and play a 5.1 from a blu ray or netflix etc AND then disconnect the fronts and Cnter I still get some pressure from the sub even if its only a conversation taking place or a normal scene rather than something that would call for a .1 - Or am I misunderstanding how the mix uses the .1
 
Got all that Dante and thx for the help - Im probably over obsessing on this but I have been setting up a smaller system in the holiday cottage as we seem to spending most of our time there now.. And I just seem to get much better vocal clarity on direct than standard

I still cant work out why when I put it on direct with an 80hz and small and play a 5.1 from a blu ray or netflix etc AND then disconnect the fronts and Cnter I still get some pressure from the sub even if its only a conversation taking place or a normal scene rather than something that would call for a .1 - Or am I misunderstanding how the mix uses the .1

Not wanting to add any confusion into the mix, and full disclosure that I know next to nothing about Yamaha AVRs.
But with other makes that I am familiar with, they usually have both Direct and Pure Direct modes.

The Pure Direct switches everything off - EQ, tone controls, video circuitry, display etc, and also only ouputs strictly that which is input - in other words a stereo source will be output as 2.0.

Direct however retains the EQ, and also use of the sub, so that a stereo source will be output as 2.1.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Got all that Dante and thx for the help - Im probably over obsessing on this but I have been setting up a smaller system in the holiday cottage as we seem to spending most of our time there now.. And I just seem to get much better vocal clarity on direct than standard


See what happens if you set the PEQ to through. It may be an issue with the room EQ coorection? The THROUGH setting bypasses these filters and would give you some idea as to whether the PEQ is causing the issue you are experiencing. Also try engaging STRAIGHT as well as the THROUGH option in order to rule out any anomalies associated with DSP Program or Surround Decoder processing.
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
Not wanting to add any confusion into the mix, and full disclosure that I know next to nothing about Yamaha AVRs.
But with other makes that I am familiar with, they usually have both Direct and Pure Direct modes.



Yamaha AV receivers don't. THey've a STRAIGHT and a PURE DIRECT or DIRECT mode. No Yamaha model includes both a DIRECT and a PURE DIRECT mode.

STRAIGHT would equate to the DIRECT mode you are refering to on Denon models for example.
 
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Yamaha AV receivers don't. THey've a STRAIGHT and a PURE DIRECT or DIRECT mode. No Yamaha model includes both a PURE and a PURE DIRECT mode.

STRAIGHT would equate to the DIRECT mode you are refering to on Denon models for example.

OK, so it's just a terminology thing then.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I've no idea as to why Yamaha entitle it just DIRECT on their lower end models below the V685?

I've also no idea as to why the sub is still indicated as being in use while in PURE DIRECT mode if the speakers are designated SMALL? The sub definately doesn't engage unless dealing with a source that includes a discrete L:FE channel.

I guess that these are only questions Yamaha can answer. They don't document these points within their literature.

I've no idea as to what actually differentiates DIRECT from PURE DIRECT onboard Yamaha's AV receivers?


Here's what they say regarding the DIRECT mode (V485 manual):
by default 2021-01-17 at 14.59.17.png



and here's what they say about PURE DIRECT (V685 manual):
by default 2021-01-17 at 15.00.19.png
 
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I've also no idea as to why the sub is still indicated as being in use while in PURE DIRECT mode if the speakers are designated SMALL? THe sub definately doesn't engage unless dealing with a source that includes a discrete L:FE channel.
No, that makes no sense whatsoever.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Interestingly, Yamaha have done away with using something different on their latest lower tier V4A model and now also include PURE DIRECT on that model too. This means that all models going forward with have PURE DIRECT and not a DIRECT mode.
 

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