Speaker Upgrade

andycc72

Active Member
Takes about 10 hours for the speakers and an unknown amount of time for your brain to adjust to the new sound.

400 hours means you really loved your old system. :cool:
I thought 400 hours seemed a bit extreme. More than one person has said they change character a few times until they’ve fully run in and that you need to ‘be patient’. I’ll let you know if experience that phenomena :)

i’m running Room Perfect with the subs tomorrow or Saturday so they should sound even better after that.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I thought 400 hours seemed a bit extreme. More than one person has said they change character a few times until they’ve fully run in and that you need to ‘be patient’. I’ll let you know if experience that phenomena :)

i’m running Room Perfect with the subs tomorrow or Saturday so they should sound even better after that.

Tons of people seem to think odd things?

The ‘breaking in’ of speakers is 99% your mind getting used to the entirely new presentation, multiplied by trying to hear new things and old in different ways.

The other 1% may (just possibly) be a twitch or two in the surround and/or any wool type stuff settling down following transit.

Perhaps twenty minutes.

400 hours only in a time dilation machine.

I’ll be with you in spirit tomorrow Andy 😂

In reality I’ll be soldering my reconed bass driver into my Trios and setting them up and running RP again.
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
Tons of people seem to think odd things?
A running in period is possibly the only one of the hifi myths I have time for - but ONLY in the case of mechanical devices - speakers and cartridges. I'm pretty much with @gava on this though - 400 - and I've even seen 1000 hours smacks of snake oil.
 

Paul7777x

Distinguished Member
I’m not saying it’s total nonsense, merely that it is nearly non existent (or actually non existent).

Dealers try it on to prevent the return of speakers before a certain time period.

Ironically, it’s true that it does take time to accustom yourself to a speaker, so it’s a fair point that having a quick listen then stropping off to return them is daft.

But that just means an explanation of the real reason should be espoused instead of this 400 hrs ‘run in’ nonsense.

It’s also true that, say, a speaker with an immediate, perky appeal may seem to turn into a bit of a shrieker, but again that’s the brain sorting out the huge number of cues that music possesses being reintroduced in a differing fashion.

If there was anything of substance to the running in notion it would be graphed, explained in peer reviewed engineering terminology and an inescapable fact, the same as any measurable parameter that alters with time.

Perhaps there is and I’ve missed it?

(There are conditions under which a speaker will not perform optimally the instant a voltage is sent, but they are pretty unusual and not inherent to the speaker, ie, being kept or stored at a very low temperature for a long time and being then instantly whipped into service.

The cone will have a set of parameters within which it will perform optimally. But in modern materials these are so wide that it would take a genuine and provocative effort to effect a change for the worse).
 
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andycc72

Active Member
As a fellow Special Forties owner I can only echo this - I know the jury's out regarding speaker run-in, but for me it's definitely a thing and I'd say more of a thing with Dynaudios than any other speaker I've owned.
In fact I've seen sites where folks claim it's 200 hours before they give of their best.
You can pretty much guarantee that if you're happy after a day then you'll be one happy camper this time next month as they'll only get better.
Hi Steve,

How much toe-in do you have on your S40's and how far is your MLP from the speakers?

I've been playing around with mine and found a slight toe-in works best for me so far. I sit 2.3 metres away, speakers are 2m apart. I'm interested to hear what works best for other people.
 

steve sph

Well-known Member
Hi Steve,

How much toe-in do you have on your S40's and how far is your MLP from the speakers?

I've been playing around with mine and found a slight toe-in works best for me so far. I sit 2.3 metres away, speakers are 2m apart. I'm interested to hear what works best for other people.
Hi Andy,
After much experimentation, I've found that about 30 degrees of toe-in works best for me, with my speakers about 7 feet apart with the MLP about 8 and a half feet from the speakers.
30 degrees basically meaning that the speakers 'cross' about 3 feet behind my head when sat centrally.
Some forums suggest an equilateral triangle, (which would mean the speaker distance apart and the distance to the MLP being the same), but in my set-up I found what's known as the isosceles triangle ratio to work better, (basically your MLP to speakers being about 12% further than the distance your speakers are apart).
I'd try both and see which works for you because obviously no two listening environments are ever the same.
 

Baron Mole

Active Member
I’m not saying it’s total nonsense, merely that it is nearly non existent (or actually non existent).
I don't disagree with what you're saying in the post above.

Just to be clear, I'm not convinced one way or the other and for mechanical devices I'll give it the benefit of doubt and allow for a few hours of "run in" since it's easy to do and costs me nothing. As a simple example It doesn't seem improbable that a speaker surround might loosen up after a bit of use.

I'd love for it to technically proved or debunked but to do that requires a theory as to what the change is and the ability to measure it, plus someone to invest the time and money to do it - and what would be the financial payback resulting from that proof? I.E. is there any motivation for anyone to investigate it ?

I don't believe that the level of technical knowledge regarding the mechanical side sound reproduction is anywhere near complete. If it was even close speaker manufacturers would be churning out very similar sounding products and we know that speakers that measure well technically on the relatively few parameters we are capable of measuring doesn't neccessarily translate to a great speaker.

I also agree that it's important to look at the motivation behind claims - your dealer example being a good case. And I'm very aware that peoples psychology is frequently manipulated. And the point about reprogramming the brain to a different sound I'm sure is valid. So while I like things to be black and white - I'm prepared to give it the benefit of the doubt and let this issue be a bit grey.

FWIW Monitor Audio in their owners manual for the Silver range - my most recent speaker purchase say "Run your speakers in by playing normal music at low-mid listening levels for approximately 50-70 hours play time. You may find the sound will continue to improve even after the 70 hour mark." !!!
 

andycc72

Active Member
Hi Andy,
After much experimentation, I've found that about 30 degrees of toe-in works best for me, with my speakers about 7 feet apart with the MLP about 8 and a half feet from the speakers.
30 degrees basically meaning that the speakers 'cross' about 3 feet behind my head when sat centrally.
Some forums suggest an equilateral triangle, (which would mean the speaker distance apart and the distance to the MLP being the same), but in my set-up I found what's known as the isosceles triangle ratio to work better, (basically your MLP to speakers being about 12% further than the distance your speakers are apart).
I'd try both and see which works for you because obviously no two listening environments are ever the same.
My current set-up is pretty similar to yours then, toe-in approx 30 degrees. 2metres between speakers and 2.3 from speakers to listening position.

I tried loads of toe-in angles and TBH at the end I was struggling to tell the difference - critical listening fatigue set in :) I settled on the above
 

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